anyone else seeing big changes ahead? Latest: Mark A says Melvin is going to be here a long time, Macha will not be fired Monday

[PeaveyFury]

Because God forbid we have a starting pitcher go more than 6 innings.

 

It certainly would be ideal. But not in tonight's situation- having Wolf throw 120 pitches when he was fading and continuing to let him flounder out there was absurd.

[Invader3K]

I read elsewhere that Macha sounded pretty depressed during the post-game. I didn't bother to watch, but did anyone catch what he said?

[brewizard]

I hate that I feel vindicated for my preseason cynicism.

[Beast Light]

Because God forbid we have a starting pitcher go more than 6 innings.

 

It certainly would have be ideal. But not in tonight's situation- having Wolf throw 120 pitches when he was fading and continuing to let him flounder out there was absurd.

You are right. Its just frustrating to watch this team. The bullpen is gassed and our starting pitching just can't seem to go deep into games. At some point, Macha is going to have no choice but to hang some of these guys out to dry in an effort to save the bullpen.

 

 

[markedman5]

Wolf's walk rate is almost double what it was last year.

 

I have a hard time blaming Peterson but it does seem the staff as a whole are walking guys at an alarming rate.

 

What the heck is going on here?

[Funketown]

I disagree. Anyone who's not likely to be on the team next year should be shopped. The possible list includes: Hoffman, Zaun, Hart, Gerut, Counsell, Bush, Davis, Vargas, Suppan, Edmonds. Are fans really more happy with an 75-80 win team than a 60 win team? A losing team is a losing team. And I think everyone knows that we've fallen out of serious contention already, barring a miracle. I don't think a fire sale would do any more damage than has already been done. Melvin may as well do his best to prepare this team to win again in the next couple of years.

I don't know. The Brewers have come a long way to build up the TV ratings and ticket sales they have today. I'd be willing to bet a lot more fans jump ship if the Brewers finish a disastrous 60-102 than if they somehow play great ball from here on out and win 80 games. Ticket sales are driven by many things, and past performance is definitely one of the stronger determinants of ticket sales.

 

Seeing all these teams repeatedly "overspend" on closers makes me think us fans might be missing the mark. I just wonder how much fans value a closer, even if the closer isn't truly that valuable in terms of wins.

 

Personally, if I didn't think it would be a bad move revenue wise, I'd like to see this team blown up, with Fielder being sent away at the deadline if the right deal comes along. I just wonder how many fans will decide not to go through the turnstiles next year if Prince isn't around.

[giffted1]

You are right. Its just frustrating to watch this team. The bullpen is gassed and our starting pitching just can't seem to go deep into games. At some point, Macha is going to have no choice but to hang some of these guys out to dry in an effort to save the bullpen.

The bullpen really hasn't been worked too hard the past couple games. Axford, Villanueva, Vargas, and Stetter didn't pitch on Monday or Tuesday. Suppan has only pitched twice the past week and has been more effective in the pen.

 

There was really no good reason for Wolf to start the 7th. Macha had other options...he was just too stupid to use them.

[paul253]

I think the Brewers are in a unique position in that they can have a "firesale" without really having to start over from scratch. This year is a bust so far, and you may have to accept next year as a loss to. But with so many aging vets and a lot of young guys ready to get a chance, you need to dump the vets. Hoffman, Zaun, Davis, Hawkins, Edmonds, Vargas, can all be traded for a least a minor leaguer. Fielder needs to go because he's the only hope to bring back a decent pitching haul, which is what we need. Hart could be traded because he's making a lot of money for what he brings. Bush, I feel like we could do without him as well.

 

At this point, you need to figure out what you have. Manny Parra is not a reliever. Either he is a starter, or he should go. Gamel is not a bench player. Either he plays every day when he is ready, or he goes. Lucroy is not a platoon player. Salome is not either. Figure out who your catcher is, then make arrangements for the other (trade or switch positions). Lawrie and Weeks are not going to both be playing second base in Milwaukee. Move Lawrie and sign Weeks or decide that Weeks doesn't have a future in Milwaukee. Gomez needs to play every day because Jim Edmonds is not going to be a Brewer next season.

 

What I am saying is this. Let the guys who potentially have a future in Milwaukee play. That's the only way you're going to know if they do in fact have a future. Make decisions about the future, defensive wise. I hate it when people change positions after they've hit the majors when they could have gotten a year experience down in the minors.

 

After this year, they'll be a lot of money available. They'll also have a lot positions potentially free (1B, RF, C, SP, RP). I'd almost rather fill them in house with guys like Axford, Braddock, Gamel, Cain, Lucroy, Butler, etc and save money then take your shot in 2012 when you'll have a lot of young guys, particularly pitchers, coming up. You can supplement them with FA's with the money they saved. They still have a good base of players in Escobar, Braun, McGehee, Gallardo, Wolf, Villanueva, Stetter, Coffey, Narveson and possibly Gomez and Weeks.

[logan82]

Funketown wrote:

I just wonder how many fans will decide not to go through the turnstiles next year if Prince isn't around.

Quite a few if we trade him for a player that will help us win. People will not show up for a losing team whether Fielder is here or not.

 

I wouldn't trade anybody unless we are going to get a good player in return until at least mid-June. That way we won't be giving players extra service time. I would put Fielder and any player who will be a free agent after this season on the block. I wouldn't trade a player unless we get a good return though. Really who can we trade other than Fielder who is likely to actually bring back a decent player? Hart maybe? Other than Hart and Fielder most of our guys are back next year or at best bench players.

[RayKingsForemanGrill]

Make it stop.

 

Macha fired on Monday? I can't see him making it through the weekend...

[BrewCrewForever]

paul253, I feel like you have read my mind. I feel the exact same way you do. This team can have a firesale, and they don't have to start over. They will still have a good core at the big league level, with some good prospects on the way. They will have some money next season and they should get some of the pitching they need in a Prince Fielder deal. They could compete as early as 2011 and 2012 at the latest.

[TheCrew07]

I hate that I feel vindicated for my preseason cynicism.

I know exactly what you mean, though it's been 2 years worth of it for me. Genuinely fearing for the worst but hoping for the best isn't a fun way to follow your favorite team, which is why I've spent most of my time rooting on the prospects since the middle of last season. It's much easier to be upbeat and positive on the minor league forum for me personally.

 

I think this team can put together an extended winning streak, but watching these games is hard. I find myself flipping the game off if we have a lead going into the 6th inning because I'm tired of being pissed off about pitch counts with young pitchers, pitching implosions, and all of the rest. I don't have a problem with Wolf pitching 120 pitches when he's cruising, but he was clearly done after the 6th, and I'm glad I turned off the game in the 7th.

 

At least Axford is easy to root for.

 

edit. Pitching implosions, not impositions, lame spell check.and crappy typing

[Fatter than Joey]

While I don't necessarily need the over-the-top personality in a manager, I believe this team does. A young ballclub like this needs a little fire and ice in my opinion and Macha is not that. Watching him manage and seeing him in the dugout does little to inspire and despite what we all feel about these guys (ballplayers in general) should be self-motivators getting to play a game for a ridiculously lavish living, I don't think a majority of them are.

 

I was driving home last night listening to 620AM and this was one of the predominant opinions of the post-game callers.

 

As many of you know I am a big Steeler fan, and when I was a kid the Steelers were coached by a guy named Chuck Noll, who ended up winning 4 Super Bowls. Noll would make Macha look like Richard Simmons as far as motivation was concerned. If you ever listen to interviews about Noll from former players, they all will tell you that Noll never gave once gave a half-time speech, or got his team "fired up". Noll's philosophy was you win games by out-preparing teams, and by each player executing their responsibilities better than their opponents. If you were the type of player that needed to be screamed at, or needed to see the coach drop 360f-bombs, you weren't going to be a Pittsburgh Steeler for very long.

 

I don't think Ken Macha is a good manager, however, I don't buy into the concept that a more animated manager is going to "whip this team into shape". If that is the case, I hope the Brewers make every effort to get rid of those players that need cheerleading as soon as possible. That said, I do thing there are things that a manager can do to motivate and better prepare his team, however, I don't think they are things that the fans are going to see in the dugout or in post-game pressers.

 

I am at the point where I think the Brewers need to be nuked, and re-birthed. I am convinced that Doug Melvin needs to be fired before the ugliness happens. It's not that I feel that DM is a horrible manager of the team, however, I believe we are at the point where we need a fresh perspective on how to rebuild and reload as quickly as possible. I don't think firing Macha will do a thing for this team good or bad in 2010, but I do think ultimately he will get fired rather soon.

[Invader3K]

I don't think calling it quits on this season means it will be 3-4 years before the team is competitive again. There are pitchers in the minors who could make an impact next season, if not in 2012. We still have a good core even if we trade Fielder. This franchise has survived after trading guys like Burnitz, Sexson, and Lee in the past. It will survive trading Fielder, which absolutely should happen this season to maximize his value in a trade.

[jeffy]

While I don't necessarily need the over-the-top personality in a manager, I believe this team does. A young ballclub like this needs a little fire and ice in my opinion...

 

I was driving home last night listening to 620AM and this was one of the predominant opinions of the post-game callers.

 

I don't think Ken Macha is a good manager, however, I don't buy into the concept that a more animated manager is going to "whip this team into shape". If that is the case, I hope the Brewers make every effort to get rid of those players that need cheerleading as soon as possible. That said, I do thing there are things that a manager can do to motivate and better prepare his team, however, I don't think they are things that the fans are going to see in the dugout or in post-game pressers.

I really don't understand the fans that get so worked up over Macha not getting worked up. I guess it is kind of like the hockey fans that want to see fights on the ice. I bet most of the fans with these complaints would not be motivated to work harder for a boss that was like the manager that they think the Brewers need. One could just as well say a young excitable team needs a calming influence like Macha...which is probably what fans would be saying if the team currently had a screaming lunatic in the dugout. (In fact wasn't that kinda what was said about Yost, that he was too uptight and excitable and this led to these delicate youths pressing too much?)

BTW, when will this no longer be considered a young team? Looking at the active roster there are only 3 players under age 27 and one of those 3 is Fielder, who certainly is now a veteran based on his MLB experience. Gomez is 25, so that would put the normal roster back at maybe 3 "young" players.

FWIW, Hunt had the same sort of comments here:

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/brewers/94217824.html

I also figure they will fire Macha, just for PR purposes. If they are not going to bring him back next year, there really is no reason not to fire him even if the purpose is just to appease the fans.

[naivin]

The Brewers should absolutely fire Macha and see if it will make any difference. That is frankly a risk free move. While there is no compelling reason he deserves to be fired, there is no compelling reason to keep him either. If they can't turn it around over the next few weeks, then they can absolutely afford to trade anyone but Braun and Gallardo. The reality is, they aren't going to have to sacrifice much relative to ticket sales. MP will have near sell out crowds throughout June, July and August, almost regardless of the product on the field. Most of those tickets are already sold. This team isn't going to the playoffs, so September will be about the same no matter what. They have to be near 2.5M tickets sold already, and unless they make a playoff run, that number is not going to change significantly, fire sale or no fire sale.

 

Firing Macha now is the right call, get some guys healthy, and you see what happens from there.

[Funketown]

Funketown wrote:

I just wonder how many fans will decide not to go through the turnstiles next year if Prince isn't around.

Quite a few if we trade him for a player that will help us win. People will not show up for a losing team whether Fielder is here or not.

I don't think it will affect the die-hard fans. There definitely will be some fans that revert to the old line of thinking that the Brewers just can't afford any star players and will never be a contender, even though that line of thinking obviously isn't justified in the least (Braun, Gallardo).

[naivin]

Well Doug gave Macha the proverbial vote of confidence this AM. Can the firing be far behind?

 

http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/94439374.html

[Dragonbait]

I see it like this...

 

Regardless of what they do with management, the team can't go much lower. THIS should be our lowest point of the season (I hope).

 

We can really only go up from here....... right? Please?

[Invader3K]

We can really only go up from here....... right? Please?

Well, at the very least they can't lose this coming Monday.

 

As far as the "vote of confidence," I don't know what to say. I'm sure it's the usual baseball speak. Might be the "kiss of death" for Macha, maybe not.

[WV Brew]

Ken Rosenthal is all but calling for Macha's scalp on Fox Sports.com today. Also says Melvin needs help evaluating pitching. No kidding Ken.

[TooLiveBrew]

Macha was absolutely inept last night imo with handling Wolf in the 7th inning. The guy had already (iirc) surpassed 100 pitches, you had three righties coming up, & good ol' Kenny runs Randy out there. You had at least Axford & Coffey available, with Stetter to face Jones & Doumit had it gotten that far. Just an absolute blunder last night.

 

I'm definitely in favor of Macha getting the axe, and it has little or nothing to do with the team's W-L record. He has been inept in handling the pitching staff this season imo. Ned-esque decisions at times. Couple that with his seemingly constant mistakes imo in lineup construction, and I don't see much that he's adding we couldn't equal or better with anyone else. My only problem with firing him is that I'm no fan of Randolph as a manager, and I definitely would want to see Rick Peterson retained.

[Beast Light]

Wolf has been a bust so far. ERA now over 5.10 and he's given up runs to a couple of challenged hitting clubs.

It seems that many on this board greatly over value this team's pitching. Most of us thought it would be impossible for the pitching to be worse than last year and unfortunately, we were wrong. What I find to be particularly troubling though is that many people fail to acknowledge that any of starting pitchers need to be replaced. They will make the case that Gallardo, Wolf, Bush, Davis and whoever we go with as a #5 all belong in a Major League rotation. The problem with this line of thinking is that while none of them may be utterly terrible, when you look at them collectively, they just aren't that good and fail to match up with the rest of the league.

 

When you have a weak #1 and #2 pitcher, you need to be better than average in the back half of the rotation if you expect to compete. So comparing Dave Bush's numbers to other #4 pitchers in the leage does not really make a whole lot of sense when these other teams are potentially stronger in the #1 and #2 spots. At the end of the day, this rotation is one of the worst in baseball and it is not going to be getting any better unless changes are made. With the contracts that have been given to Gallardo and Wolf, this means that Davis and/or Bush will have to be upgraded. I really don't understand how this can be debated.

 

I found this article while visiting another Brewers site. Its an interesting read as it shows not only how Buster Olney views the Brewers pitching situation, but also how a rival evaluator views it as well. Its my first time posting an article here so hopefully I am following all the rules:

 

http://espn.go.com/mlb/notebook/_/page/bbtn100520/baseball-tonight-clubhouse

 

Don't blame Macha for Brewers' current failures

by Buster Olney

 

Key excerpts:

 

"But you wonder how much of a difference a change at manager would actually make, because no matter who is filling out the lineup card, that person -- whether it's Macha or Willie Randolph or Connie Mack or John McGraw -- cannot change the fact that the Brewers just don't have a lot of pitching weapons. "

 

"A rival evaluator chatted on Tuesday about the Brewers' staff. "When you look at their rotation," he said, "they basically have a guy who has the stuff to be a No. 2 starter on a good team [Yovani Gallardo] and a guy who could be a No. 4 [Randy Wolf], and then a bunch of guys who should be long relievers. That might be the softest group of pitchers I've seen in years." "

 

[jeffy]

Ken Rosenthal is all but calling for Macha's scalp on Fox Sports.com today.

Funny he says "if Macha is not exactly the problem, neither is his overbearing, sometimes grating style the solution".

This sounds quite different from the complaints that fans have about Macha.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/MLB-Brewers-change-pitchers-or-management-051910

[TooLiveBrew]

"That might be the softest group of pitchers I've seen in years."

 

Ouch. All the more reason why it's time to see what Manny Parra can do (and for that matter, Marco Estrada)