letting pitchers pitch

[DHonks]

One of the biggest complaints I've had about Macha is his handling of the pitching staff. I absolutely loved how Yost and Maddux monitored the workloads of relievers and didn't like getting relievers up in the pen without using them. I also loved how they often let their relievers (multi-inning guys) like Villanueva go 2-4 innings at the end of games if they were pitching well and efficiently. Once again, Macha chose to burn an extra pitcher last night when he brought in Claudio Vargas. Up so much in the scorebook that it couldn't be considered sound strategy, I was hoping he'd let Parra finish the game. Manny likely will move back to the rotation next year...so why not let him work 2+ innings whenever we can. By working 2 innings, he likely isn't available today...so why didn't they let him finish the game? The double-switch/pinch hit excuse just doesn't fly in last night's scenario

[GAME05]

i agree, it's definitely one of Macha's issues. if we're up by a ton, why not pull Gallardo out an inning earlier, save him from hitting 100 pitches and let Soup throw the rest of the game? Villy, Parra and Vargas are all guys who have demonstrated they can go multiple innings when asked to. if we're up by a lot, there's really no point of sending a guy out there to only pitch one inning.

[dadofandrew]

If Parra goes 3, he needs more than a day off, maybe 2-3, depending on pitches.

[Brewer Fever]

How soon we forget. Yost was a master at using 6 pitchers when 3-4 would suffice.

[uwisfan]

wow, people actually pining for Yost's use of pitchers? amazing.

[jerichoholicninja]

That's funny. One of the biggest things I've noticed about Macha is that he lets relievers throw more than one inning.

[owbc]

Bench management: Yost > Macha

 

Bullpen management: Macha > Yost

 

We had several long threads on BF.net about Ned's bullpen management. It is also interesting that this thread came up after Macha used great bullpen management today. With Hawkins on the DL, Coffey could have gone back to being the setup man, but instead Macha used him to get an important out early in the game--and Villanueva was saved for the 8th when we had built up a 5-run lead.

 

Plus, the bullen has quietly become very effective this year, so why not take advantage of it?

[valpocrewsader]

How soon we forget. Yost was a master at using 6 pitchers when 3-4 would suffice.

Quoted for truth. Yost was terrible at managing the bullpen and ALWAYS had superfluous relievers up and throwing for no good reason. It was one of my biggest pet peaves about him. Macha's use of the bullpen may not be genius, but it's no worse than Yost. Probably better.

Revisionist history.

 

 

[greeg35]

Bench management: Yost > Macha

Not that Macha is great at it; but iirc yost's bench managment was starting all the bench players on Sunday. That sucked, particularly if you had tickets to that game... the conversation usually turns to Yost vs. Macha; but that just seems to me like comparing crap to crap.

[DHonks]

Well folks, I remember things differently. I remember Yost letting relievers finish blowouts without burning other pitchers. The only times I critiqued Yost/Maddux's management of the bullpen, we seemed to find out in the post-game that the preferred pitchers were unavailable that night. Thus it was a moot point.

 

obsessedwithbrewcrew, this threat came up last week when I mentioned it in the anti-Macha thread. But being at last night's game had me upset when we chose to put an inning on Vargas' load when Parra was cruising. That's why I created a new thread for it. I can't figure out any logic behind many of Macha's moves, as he often puts guys in situations where we're left scratching out heads and thinking, "how is this setting the player--and the team--up for success???" In fairness, Yost is probably the only manager I've ever seen that liked to let relievers pick up 3 or 4 inning saves, but the strategy seemed to make lots of sense in certain situations

[joepepsi]

I give Macha credit for bringing in Coffey in the 5th yesterday. We always talk about using your best reliever in the most critical part of the game and not saving him jsut for ht 8th/9th innings. Sunday, Macha did that.

[Baldkin]

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/yost-infection/

 

Yost was horrible at managing the bullpen.

[Ennder]

Yost was probably the worst manager the Brewers have ever had when it came to bullpen management. He had other strengths but this was his huge weakness.

[sheethead]

Plus, the bullen has quietly become very effective this year, so why not take advantage of it?

 

Save for a couple of pitchers, the bullpen has pitched great!

[giffted1]

Well folks, I remember things differently. I remember Yost letting relievers finish blowouts without burning other pitchers. The only times I critiqued Yost/Maddux's management of the bullpen, we seemed to find out in the post-game that the preferred pitchers were unavailable that night. Thus it was a moot point.

Some people are definitely choosing to forget these situations where Yost would let a reliever pitch multiple innings and finish out a game. Whatever.

 

At this point I'd say their bullpen management abilities are close to the same. Macha is viewed more favorably for two reasons: he has a better bullpen, and he hasn't made a really stupid move in a really big game yet (Shouse/Burrell). I think most people think of that move when remembering Yost although it was not at all representative of his bullpen management abilities as a whole.

I

give Macha credit for bringing in Coffey in the 5th yesterday. We

always talk about using your best reliever in the most critical part of

the game and not saving him jsut for ht 8th/9th innings. Sunday, Macha

did that.

Did he actually do that? The argument could

definitely be made that Villanueva is the best guy in our pen right

now.

[MadScientist]

If Parra goes 3, he needs more than a day off, maybe 2-3, depending on pitches.

As long as there is another long man in the pen, it's worth it to give the 1 inning guys a rest. Parra would have also picked up a save, which looks nice when you can't get much else in the way of positive stats as a long guy.