Zack Greinke [Latest: Deal for Odorizzi/Cain/Escobar/Jeffress in place? reply 464]

[sveumrules]

I like Greinke as a pitcher, but come on, he's been inconsistent and has only had one really good year.

I would say he's had two really good years and one completely ridiculous year. His 2010 and 2008 WARs were 5.4 and 4.9 which would be the 2nd and 3rd best years of any Brewer pitcher in the last 10 years after Sheets in 2004.

 

If Cain, Jeffress and 1 or 2 B prospects isn't enough to get it done, move on Doug.

[Invader3K]

The Royals are pretty stocked at the corners. They would take LuCroy, Escobar and Cain for Greinke in a second. Or they should at least.

I really don't think the Brewers are in a position to give up Lucroy right now. The other two, probably. The problem with trading Lucroy is that you are looking at a Kottaras/Nieves (or possibly Rivera or Maldonado) situation in 2011. That would be pretty bad, unless they overpay for some aging veteran catcher.

[greeg35]

Not that Lucroy looks like a world beater; but it would be pretty discouraging to go from two years ago having 3 strong possibilities to solve our catching WOAHS to having no possibilities (at least not at the higher levels).

[Invader3K]

Yeah, that is a good point greeg. I really can't see Lucroy being dealt at this point just from a position necessity standpoint.

 

It's really too bad Salome turned into a total bust.

[wibadgers23]

New article up on ESPN that basically says Toronto and Washington are after Greinke and that we probably don't have the talent in our system to acquire him.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5915164

[paulmolitor4]

New article up on ESPN that basically says Toronto and Washington are after Greinke and that we probably don't have the talent in our system to acquire him.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5915164

ESPN is garbage. What do they know? The talent is there to acquire Greinke. It's just a matter of whether or not Melvin wants to part with it. And like I said before, whomever acquires Greinke will undoubtedly have to WAY overpay for him.

 

 

[crewcrazy]

The talent is there in corner IF/OF types, which the Royals already have plenty of. The talent isn't there up the middle, at least from a quality standpoint. I suppose Melvin could throw a bunch of players at the Royals and see if they bite, but comparing the names the Brewers could offer to the other names that have been brought up, and the Brewers just don't have what it would take (and they wouldn't have had enough with Lawrie, before someone goes there).

[nate82]

Actually it all depends on how the Royals scouts view the players and how the Royals management view the Brewers prospects compared to the ones that are being proposed by other teams. I still don't see Greinke going anywhere until Lee signs and that should be coming sometime this week. It won't be until after Christmas or after New Years until Greinke is traded if he is traded at all. Lawrie would have been part of the deal but I am not sure if the Royals see Lawrie as a 2B they probably saw him as an OF or a corner IF which they already have plenty of prospects at those positions so that would be a knock against Lawrie from the Royals.

[PrinceEatMeat]

This report basically solidifies what I thought before, and said earlier in this thread. We just don't have enough to get Greinke, and either way we'd have to give up way too much to get him. This isn't happening. I really don't think Garza is happening either. So basically we're set at where we're at unless we sign one of the injury-prone pitchers later in the offseason.

Link from TH on it...

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/111799504.html

[endaround]

Milwaukee has the talent in Milwaukee. Its Cain, Escobar and LuCcoy and could very well take all three.

[Invader3K]

Milwaukee has the talent in Milwaukee. Its Cain, Escobar and LuCcoy and could very well take all three.

Maybe, but I don't think that would ultimately be a good move for the Brewers. You'd basically replace those three with Gomez, Counsell (Cruz?), and Kottaras/Nieves (or maybe Rivera). I just feel its not worth it for two years of Greinke.

[colbyjack]

I'm guessing the comment about not having the talent necessary to acquire Greinke also has something to do with the talent Melvin would be willing to part with to acquire Greinke. I highly doubt Lucroy and Escobar are going to be included in any proposed deal, and have speculated before that Cain was initially dangled to be available in the right package in an attempt to complement any package that could be used to acquire Greinke or even Garza. As endaround noted, the Brewers have the talent, but as Invader also noted, I don't think moving our three young up-the-middle talents would be very wise for the team's future, much less next season.

 

It was 16 years in between when Lucroy and Mike Matheny made their big-league debuts, the last two regular starting catchers the Brewers developed from within. I don't think Lucroy is going anywhere.

 

Haudricourt has been reporting the same thing for several days now as well, as it seems certain that the Royals and Brewers don't match up very well. That said, what organization has some type of combination of catcher, shortstop and centerfielder, that are close to the big leagues, that would appeal to the Royals?

[KCBrewerfan34]

What about Escobar, Cain and Jeffress or Odirizzi. Man the Royals would be nuts to pass on that, we would be nuts to offer it. Take the pitcher out and put Jeffress in then this deal is done IMO.

[EbbaStClaire]

In the old days pennants were won with pitching and defense. Now the Brewers finally have some guys that can play some defense and some experts want to trade them away. I don't know how good LuCroy, Escobar and Cain will be offensively but they should povide above average defense in three of the four positions that are considered to be "up the middle". Along with with a defensively average Weeks, maybe we can actually help our pitchers. Keep in mind the Brewers don't need one more pitcher, they actually need at least four. For various reasons, injuries, effectiveness, dropping from contention, etc., major league teams use 8-9 different starters during the year. So maybe the $10M for Pavano or all the money and players for Greinke would leave the Brewers short of pitchers anyway. Why mortgage the future by trading 3 players who will be around for a long time?

[PrinceEatMeat]

I'm pretty sure any team in the league has enough to get Greinke, it's just a matter of the players they actually have available to trade. I think that's the case here. We just can't give up what it takes to get Greinke. Wouldn't be a good move.

[endaround]

I'm pretty sure any team in the league has enough to get Greinke, it's just a matter of the players they actually have available to trade. I think that's the case here. We just can't give up what it takes to get Greinke. Wouldn't be a good move.

No, very few teams have cheap up the middle talent. The Brewers do, but are reluctant to trade them because up the middle talent is scarce.

[paul253]

In the old days pennants were won with pitching and defense

 

Yeah but I think pitching is more important than defense now. Not that defense isn't important, as I am sure everyone who has been banging their heads on the wall the past few years watching Milwaukee already knows, but I think it all starts with pitching. One of those guys is replaceable though, at least defensively. I think Gomez is just as good defensively as Cain is.

 

Keep in mind the Brewers don't need one more pitcher, they actually

need at least four. For various reasons, injuries, effectiveness,

dropping from contention, etc., major league teams use 8-9 different

starters during the year

 

They may need 8-9 starters throughout the year, but they don't need to go out and get four more pitchers. Yes every team needs a spot starter every now and then, and you may even have a season ending injury too. But in that case, you already have guys like Rogers and Rivas, maybe even Parra and hopefully Capuano you can throw into the rotation. Getting Greinke would immediately put Milwaukee in the front position to win the division, assuming they don't give up too much offense in the deal.

 

So maybe the $10M for Pavano or all the money and players for Greinke would leave the Brewers short of pitchers anyway.

 

See I disagree here. You don't need six pitchers capable of being a number two or number three starter. You just need enough guys that are capable of getting by. That's where guys like Rogers and Capuano come in. If you have Gallardo, Greinke, Marcum, Wolf, Narveson, Rogers, Capuano, Parra, and even Butler and Rivas, you'll be fine barring a major disaster.

[Warning Track Power]

That said, what organization has some type of combination of catcher, shortstop and centerfielder, that are close to the big leagues, that would appeal to the Royals?

Not too sure what they have in terms of shortstop and centerfield talent in the minors, but to me the Yankees are becoming the likely suitor for Greinke despite his past mental hurdles. Signing Russell Martin blocks Cervelli and Montero and they still have Posada. It looks to me that they are positioning themselves to move Cervelli or the more coveted Montero. I'm guessing a package of Montero and Brett Gardner as the headliners may get KC going.

 

 

[TooLiveBrew]

I can't see the Yankees dealing Montero or Gardner right now. They're very high on both players, especially Montero.

[PrinceEatMeat]

I'm pretty sure any team in the league has enough to get Greinke, it's just a matter of the players they actually have available to trade. I think that's the case here. We just can't give up what it takes to get Greinke. Wouldn't be a good move.

No, very few teams have cheap up the middle talent. The Brewers do, but are reluctant to trade them because up the middle talent is scarce.

Most teams have good major league or minor league talent somewhere. Might have to trade the house for him, but what I'm saying is that most teams could get it done if they wanted to. Although it would likely destroy their team or minor league system in most cases. Possibly in our case too.

[reillymcshane]

I'm guessing a package of Montero and Brett Gardner as the headliners may get KC going.

 

The problem with Montero is that few scouts see him sticking at catcher longterm, meaning a move to 1B - a position KC doesn't need.

 

The Yankees have been saying he's good enough to catch - but they are the only ones saying it. Plus the recent signing of Martin makes you wonder.

 

Of course, the Royals could take Montero and simply DH him, plus let him catch every now and then, back up 1B, and he'd be of great value. They could then deal Billy Butler once Hosmer is ready.

 

This team could use a power hitter in the worst way.

[crewcrazy]

No real news on Greinke, but I thought I'd share Joe Posnanski's latest great blog post, this time on the psyche of Zack Greinke. It's a long read, but if you have the time, it's well worth it. He tries to tackle a lot of the talk that Greinke couldn't handle pitching in a big market, among other things. Poz is one of the best sportswriters out there today, and Greinke's one of the more interesting people in the game. Makes for a great, great read.

 

Link

[reillymcshane]

No real news on Greinke, but I thought I'd share Joe Posnanski's latest great blog post, this time on the psyche of Zack Greinke. It's a long read, but if you have the time, it's well worth it. He tries to tackle a lot of the talk that Greinke couldn't handle pitching in a big market, among other things. Poz is one of the best sportswriters out there today, and Greinke's one of the more interesting people in the game. Makes for a great, great read.

 

Link

Crewcrazy, thanks. that was a great article. well worth the time.

[TooLiveBrew]

Yeah, definitely worth the time to read. Honestly it didn't even take that long, the article flows very well.

[dadofandrew]

He's far more likely to have "issues" than pitchers with no history of anxiety. That article makes him seem very unique, almost eccentric. That's fine if you're a bowler or golfer, but when you have a history of mental stuff and play a team sport, I remain wary. I'd sure take him, but I'd prefer others with a tad less success and seemingly, far less chance of a blowup. Much prefer Garza, Shields, Nolasco, or any number of SP's under 30, though availability is a factor, I realize. Plus, he only has 1.5 or 2 years, and sounds as if he's set on going the FA route, like Prince.