Zack Greinke [Latest: Deal for Odorizzi/Cain/Escobar/Jeffress in place? reply 464]

[Invader3K]

Yeah, I saw that too. Sounds like Greinke to Milwaukee is pretty much a dead idea at this point.

[nate82]

I'm going to guess here and believe the Royals were asking for something like Lawrie, Odorizzi, Jeffress, and another player. That would be something that would be too high and I don't think that would have benefited the Brewers at all way too much to be giving up for 2-years of Greinke. I could see giving up two of those three but if the Royals were asking for all three and then some I don't think it would be worth it to do that.

[kilgore37]

Twitter

jcrasnick:

Not sure how much there is to this, but one scout said the Brewers might be holding back Cain as possible chip in a Zack Greinke trade. [via Twitter]

[Weirdos19]

Twitter

jcrasnick:

Not sure how much there is to this, but one scout said the Brewers might be holding back Cain as possible chip in a Zack Greinke trade. [via Twitter]

Maybe my Cain/Odorizzi/Jeffress deal is on the table!!

[TooLiveBrew]

I have to say, Weirdos, if the Brewers can land Greinke for that offer, I'll be very happy & very impressed with your powers.

[Weirdos19]

I have this telepathy. I always knew when Favre was throwing a pick too.

[Oldcity]

I just want to see some creativity out of Melvin. He's never really gone outside the box. They need to pull off some sort of trade for pitching. A lot of teams will be in on Greinke, but that doesn't mean the Brewers shouldn't be as well.

 

I'd argue that Marcum was outside the box.

Heh. I would too. I posted that before I saw the Marcum trade.

[dlk9s]

After reading "the price was way too high -- far beyond Brett Lawrie," I am liking the Marcum deal even more.

 

That quote makes me believe that KC wanted Lawrie, our top two or three pitching prospects (or two of the top three), and maybe even another position player. To me, the gap between Grienke and Marcum is not as large as the gap between what we'd have to give up to get Grienke and what he did give up to get Marcum. It seems to me that Marcum is the better value. Sure, Lawrie was a decent size price to pay, but I don't think the added cost to get Grienke PLUS the added salary to bring him onboard was worth it. Grienke is better than Marcum, of course, but not THAT much better.

[ListachRides]

If the Royals' asking price comes down later this off-season or at the July trade deadline to the point where something like a Cain+Odorizzi+Jeffress+Gamel deal would be enough, I'd say we should do it. As painful as it would be to give up that much, the Brewers have already prioritized the near future by keeping Fielder and trading Lawrie, so we might as well go all out. I liked adding Marcum, but agree with those who worry that the Brewers still look like they might top out at 85 wins as currently composed. Adding Greinke is the one move left that could transform the club from NL contenders to NL favorites for the next two seasons. I'm willing to endure any future drop off in exchange for a good 2-year window.

[thumperden]

I think it's a foregone conclusion that Mr. Melvin is obligated to go for broke for two reasons. One, we'll only have Fielder for one year and he's gone. The trade market isn't going to net anything worth while at least over the winter. And two, the Brewers need to show significant improvement this year to keep his job. He has to roll the dice this year. It's playoffs or bust for Doug Melvin.

[KCBrewerfan34]

If we have a rotation of

 

Gallardo

Greinke

Marcum

Wolf

Narveson

 

 

Thats a divison winning rotation and a rotation that could compete in the playoffs. If Melvin passes on Greinke he probably is going to look back on it when he's collecting his unemployment checks as his biggest mistake. As long as you don't trade Rogers you almost do any package, this would give us at least a 2 year window to compete for the division and beyond.

 

Bite the bullet Doug!!

[Invader3K]

I really think people are way over obsessed with Zach Greinke based on his name value and Cy Young Award. Yes, I'd love to see him pitching for the Brewers as well, but not at the expense of stripping out the farm system for two seasons of him.

 

Really, if you look at the numbers, Shaun Marcum isn't that far behind Greinke. I realize the Brewers still need another starting pitcher, but we have to keep things realistic. The Brewers apparently already made two offers to KC, which weren't accepted. Probably time to move on to other ideas.

[BritInWI]

I really think people are way over obsessed with Zach Greinke based on his name value and Cy Young Award. Yes, I'd love to see him pitching for the Brewers as well, but not at the expense of stripping out the farm system for two seasons of him.

 

Really, if you look at the numbers, Shaun Marcum isn't that far behind Greinke. I realize the Brewers still need another starting pitcher, but we have to keep things realistic. The Brewers apparently already made two offers to KC, which weren't accepted. Probably time to move on to other ideas.

Just to stir the pot on this a little, here's some food for thought.

 

While I'm not at all claiming Marcum will be better than Greinke, and would also like to see Greinke pitching for the Brewers, why is everyone so convinced that giving up three or four of the organization's better prospects for two years of Greinke is a good idea when people here can't even seem to agree that giving up one for Marcum (who is willing to sign an extension) was?

[BrandonBurns]

Not wanting to read thru entire thread but who's Greinke's agent? Has he stated he wants to go into free agency? Just curious...

[Invader3K]

Not wanting to read thru entire thread but who's Greinke's agent? Has he stated he wants to go into free agency? Just curious...

SFX Agency. I have no idea if Greinke or his agency have stated intent to go to free agency or not.

[ListachRides]

I really think people are way over obsessed with Zach Greinke based on his name value and Cy Young Award. Yes, I'd love to see him pitching for the Brewers as well, but not at the expense of stripping out the farm system for two seasons of him.

 

Really, if you look at the numbers, Shaun Marcum isn't that far behind Greinke. I realize the Brewers still need another starting pitcher, but we have to keep things realistic. The Brewers apparently already made two offers to KC, which weren't accepted. Probably time to move on to other ideas.

I suppose it's a difference of opinion, but I do believe there's a considerable difference between Marcum and Greinke. If you look at WAR, Greinke's last 3 seasons have been better than Yo's 2010 (which was better than Marcum's 2010). Greinke's 2009 season was simply phenomenal, one of the best by any pitcher in the past decade. While I like Marcum plenty, I think Greinke, unlike Yo or Marcum, has the potential to have a Halladayesque season. Adding him would give us an ace that could match up in a playoff series against any pitcher in baseball.

[BritInWI]

If you look at WAR, Greinke's last 3 seasons have been better than Yo's 2010 (which was better than Marcum's 2010). Greinke's 2009 season was simply phenomenal, one of the best by any pitcher in the past decade. While I like Marcum plenty, I think Greinke, unlike Yo or Marcum, has the potential to have a Halladayesque season. Adding him would give us an ace that could match up in a playoff series against any pitcher in baseball.

Two questions:

 

1) Which was more the aberration for Greinke? 2009 or 2010?

 

2) "Adding him would give us an ace that could match up in a playoff series against any pitcher in baseball" - given his widely publicized issues, don't you fear for how well he'd hold up under the national spotlight in the playoffs?

[Invader3K]

ListachRides, I don't deny Greinke is better than Gallardo or Marcum. I just think the trade and salary costs don't justify what we would get back in return. Given that Melvin reportedly made two offers to the Royals and was turned down, I'd have to assume it would cost something like Jeffress/Rogers/Odorizzi/Cain to get him. I just think that's too much for two years of any starting pitcher.

[ListachRides]

Ok then. I'm sympathetic to your viewpoint. It may be a mistake to give up that much. I'm not sure I would have been willing to go that high before the Marcum trade. Now that we have Marcum two things have changed for me:

 

1) We've already started sacrificing future resources to become better in the present. If that's our strategy, I think we should stick to it. I don't think the Brewers have the resources to fully pursue win-now and win-tomorrow strategies simultaneously. The best use of our resources to win-tomorrow would have been to trade Prince and keep Lawrie. The poor market for Prince seems to have made win-now the best strategy and I think we should commit all of our resources to that end.

 

2) Now that we have Marcum, I think we're close enough that Greinke (or Lee, if that was at all reasonable) would push us over the top. With just Marcum we're a fringy playoff contender, with just Greinke, we'd be a somewhat stronger playoff contender. With both, I think we're a legit World Series favorite, and the difference between that and the first two scenarios is why it would be worth it to me now to go all in. This may be a somewhat strained analogy, but it kind's of like how the Celtics decision to trade for Garnett became a much smarter gamble after they first completed the separate move to acquire Ray Allen.

[BrandonBurns]

ListachRides, I don't deny Greinke is better than Gallardo or Marcum. I just think the trade and salary costs don't justify what we would get back in return. Given that Melvin reportedly made two offers to the Royals and was turned down, I'd have to assume it would cost something like Jeffress/Rogers/Odorizzi/Cain to get him. I just think that's too much for two years of any starting pitcher.

I'm with you that it's too steep. I think I would change my mind if the brewers were given a negotiating window to extend Greinke though.

[Warning Track Power]

ListachRides, I don't deny Greinke is better than Gallardo or Marcum. I just think the trade and salary costs don't justify what we would get back in return. Given that Melvin reportedly made two offers to the Royals and was turned down, I'd have to assume it would cost something like Jeffress/Rogers/Odorizzi/Cain to get him. I just think that's too much for two years of any starting pitcher.

I'm with you that it's too steep. I think I would change my mind if the brewers were given a negotiating window to extend Greinke though.

Fantastic point. An extended Greinke for 4 additional years may be worth the upper level prospects of Jeffress/Rogers/Cain and the lower level stud Odorizzi. Having 3/5 of a rotation locked in with Gallardo and Greinke and I would assume eventually Marcum does wonders for stability.

 

[auscar]

Royals are talking about getting help up the middle for Greinke. What about a deal built around Escobar? Escobar-Cain-Rivas or Peralta type pitcher, given a window to extend Greinke?

[reillymcshane]

Royals are talking about getting help up the middle for Greinke. What about a deal built around Escobar? Escobar-Cain-Rivas or Peralta type pitcher, given a window to extend Greinke?

And we could try and reacquire Hardy from the Twins. Just kidding. Kind of. I have to admit, that would be fun. I like Escobar, but I really thought J.J. was great. I loved the power from that spot. Not that it's there any more.

[Warning Track Power]

And we could try and reacquire Hardy from the Twins. Just kidding. Kind of. I have to admit, that would be fun. I like Escobar, but I really thought J.J. was great. I loved the power from that spot. Not that it's there any more.

 

Glad to see I'm not alone in my pining for JJ to still be our SS.

[Crew2323]

I realize that the Greinke trade talk has kind of been squashed and is a pipe dream, but Heyman just tweeted:

 

teams most aggressive on greinke are #rangers, #brewers, #dodgers, #bluejays, #nats (via @DKnobler)

Full article can be found here.

 

I still think it's an obvious long shot for the Brewers, but it seems as if they still are trying to make something work.