Zack Greinke [Latest: Deal for Odorizzi/Cain/Escobar/Jeffress in place? reply 464]

[TooLiveBrew]

Yeah, that's what I meant. Even though Mark A. has given the old vote of confidence, I don't see why you'd want to bring back a lame duck GM after missing the postseason again (obv. in the scenario where the Brewers miss in '11).

[TheCrew07]

I'll simply say it does the Brewers no good to trade pitching for pitching when the solution and there aren't really other options behind the prospects being moved.

 

I like our prospects as much as anyone but I'm really not ready to hang my hat on Scarpetta, Peralta, and Odorizzi today. If they were healthy and finishing off solid seasons in AA sure, but none of those guys has a full year above A ball yet.

 

Every move Melvin has made has shortened the competitive window of the team, every single move, even Sabathia. What good would a playoff appearance in 2011 be just to slip even farther down the scale of ineptitude in 2012?

 

There is a rather large segment of the posting community here that is incredibly short sighted, only being concerned with 1 season at a time. That's fine, but realize what you are calling for and then have the common courtesy not to complain after the fact.... like so many people who were in favor of all or the majority of the moves Melvin made up through 2009. but then complained all 2010 about the rotation. I have much more respect for people who vehemently disagree with me but at least stand their ground than all these people who's opinions change as the fortunes of the team change.

[Oldcity]

The division is very winnable in 2011, and if they Brewers can find a way to get an ace, they're as good as anyone in it. The Brewers have the offense to win the division.

 

I also fail to see how the moves made before 2009 hurt their ability to get pitching in 2010. The CC trade was made with prospects who haven't done a thing to this point. If they weren't dealt then, their value would have only dropped, and the Brewers wouldn't have been able to get much for them.

 

Their pitching problems last year were based on poor free agent signings and a lack of creativity (i.e. failing to make a trade).

[PrinceFielderx1]

Stevo, I believe you are exactly right with your last sentence. Doug Melvin has done a poor job with the FA signings. Imo he has been over paying for older mediocre pitching and he hasn't been smart or creative in the process. He has also failed on trading for the pitching that the Brewers need. The Sabathia trade was for the current year and nothing more. I'm talking about trading for pitching with a year plus of control. This is one of the big failures of Doug Melvin and upper management. Also, Doug Melvin has been very reluctant to trade any of the Brewers offensive home grown players the last few years for top of the line pitching. He has had some big trades fall through, but regardless he still never worked out a trade. That is his fault. Sounds like he has seen the light though. So to speak. We shall see.

[logan82]

Where has Milwaukee's pitching staff ranked year by year through the Melvin tenure? I don't believe it has been to bad outsie of the last 2 years.

[BrewCrewForever]

The more I hear that Fielder will probably not be traded, the more I think the Brewers might have to part with some of their better prospects and make a run at Greinke. Not sure how else we are going to improve our rotation.

[PrinceFielderx1]

The more I hear that Fielder will probably not be traded, the more I think the Brewers might have to part with some of their better prospects and make a run at Greinke. Not sure how else we are going to improve our rotation.

What about a Garza trade? or a Shields trade?

[nate82]

What about a Garza trade? or a Shields trade?

I don't see the Brewers having anything that the Rays would want. They are set at 2B and we don't have a SS to give them either which is what they would need assuming they trade Bartlett it would have to be a 3-team deal to land Shields or Garza. The Rays are set at pitching though they could use a closer type of a pitcher maybe they would bite on Jeffress though that wouldn't be a enough for Garza or Shields. They may take a Cain, Jeffress, and a PTBNL for Garza or Shields and I am not sure that really improves the team at all for the Brewers. You would be relying on Gomez to have a good year in that scenario.

 

I believe the best option is going hard after Greinke and see what the Royals want for him.

[colbyjack]

I'll simply say it does the Brewers no good to trade pitching for pitching when the solution and there aren't really other options behind the prospects being moved.

 

I like our prospects as much as anyone but I'm really not ready to hang my hat on Scarpetta, Peralta, and Odorizzi today. If they were healthy and finishing off solid seasons in AA sure, but none of those guys has a full year above A ball yet.

 

So what exactly are you saying? That you want to see this team develop their own pitching from within before they even try to win again? And if you aren't sold on guys like Scarpetta, Peralta and Odorizzi, wouldn't that make you more likely to trade them for a more proven commodity that might actually be able to help the Brewers make the playoffs? How much pitching depth is it going to take before you feel comfortable moving some of it to try and win?

 

I still don't understand how dealing the players we did for Sabathia put the Brewers out in any way, shape or form. If the Brewers still had LaPorta, people would be complaining that we didn't draft Heyward with that pick. Brantley, Bryson and most certainly Zach Jackson haven't done anything that has set back the Brewers success, and certainly nothing close to trade a playoff berth in '08.

 

Every move Melvin has made has shortened the competitive window of the team, every single move, even Sabathia. What good would a playoff appearance in 2011 be just to slip even farther down the scale of ineptitude in 2012?

 

I'm sorry, but you're really starting to lose me. What good is a playoff appearance in 2011??? Because it's the playoffs!!! The Brewers have a 40+ year history of ineptitude. Making the playoffs is what it is all about. We've seen plenty of teams catch fire in recent years to surprise a lot of people once they make the postseason, and that is why they play the game. I don't understand the notion of stock-piling pitchers from top to bottom before feeling comfortable going for it.

 

There is a rather large segment of the posting community here that is incredibly short sighted, only being concerned with 1 season at a time.

 

I was all for stockpiling talent when it was clear that the team had no chance to make the playoffs, but that's different now. The Brewers have already developed enough talent to put them in the conversation of potential playoff contenders, and it's not like the division is that far out of reach.

 

I don't think you realize how difficult it is to make the postseason, and how easy it is for that window of opportunity to shrivel up and disappear altogether as you wait for other pieces to come together. Building talent from within is nice, very nice, but another part of a successful farm system is to be used to acquire other pieces.

 

I'm not sure if you're old enough to remember, but after 1982 the fans thought the playoffs would become an annual occurrence. Whoops!

[marty22]

I could see the rays liking Gamel for 1B. I would think about trading axford to them too. Definitely a regression candidate

[kramnoj]

Every move Melvin has made has shortened the competitive window of the team, every single move, even Sabathia.

 

This is just useless hyperbole, right? Signing Cameron, Branyan, Edmonds, trading for Torres, they all shortened the competitive window?

[GAME05]

i'll take a 40% shot at the playoffs for two years than a 10% chance at it for eight years.

 

although i'm not sold on trading all of the pitching prospects from one of the two levels we have (Rogers/Jeffress at AAAA and Odorizzi/Scarpeta at A+). if a trade were to happen, i hope Melvin mixes it up more and maybe even includes Lawrie, just so we're able to keep at least a little depth from each level. but it's not like we're going to have three rookie pitchers being promoted to the ML club all at once. at some point there's going to have to be a decision made with them, regardless, whether it's to hold at AAA or for a bullpen role--at that point, trading most of them for Greinke might be a better use of their talent. keeping them to have depth is nice, but Greinke is worth a lot more wins than depth is.

 

what scares me about always keeping all prospects is that it will take three years for Rogers/Jeffress to (maybe) develop into the next Greinke, and the same three years for Odorizzi/Scarpeta to even get to the ML level. by that time Fielder, Weeks and Hart will be gone. when a .500 team always keeps its depth to replace its star players, you remain a .500 team. i'm not satisfied with that anymore.

[BrewCrewForever]

The more I hear that Fielder will probably not be traded, the more I think the Brewers might have to part with some of their better prospects and make a run at Greinke. Not sure how else we are going to improve our rotation.

What about a Garza trade? or a Shields trade?

I would not really want Shields, but I would love to swing a trade for Garza. Would cost less prospects to get Garza than it would to get Greinke.

[Hate those Rodents]

I think Greinke would take KC's pick of our best FOUR prospects to obtain him. If you'd do, say, Lawrie, Rogers, Jeffress. and Odorizzi for him, I believe that's what it would take.

[PilprinBuddha]

If we can sign Weeks to sign an extension....make the deal...whatever it takes.

[PrinceEatMeat]

If we can sign Weeks to sign an extension....make the deal...whatever it takes.

Why does signing Weeks to an extension have anything to do with getting Greinke? I'd get him no matter what happens. We can find a 2B if we have to.

[Ennder]

The problem with Doug Melvin more than anything is they haven't had success drafting pitching. You can blame anything else you want but you aren't getting at the true source of the problem. He inherited a team with no talent at all and not a whole lot in the minors either and they decided to focus on offense first and when they started to work on the pitching none of it panned out. The Suppan deal was painful but most of his other deals have very little to do with the current state of the team. The only other deal that really can be easily second guessed is the Sabathia one but since we made the playoffs I find it hard to really complain about that one. I guess you could add the deal that cost us Nelson Cruz but considering he took that long to make the majors and hasn't really hit outside of Texas I'd say that one is just nitpicking.

 

If the Brewers traded 4 top prospects for Grienke I'd be extremely upset.

[PrinceEatMeat]

I don't think it would take 4 prospects, but it might take 3. I wouldn't be that upset if that was the case. I could deal with maybe Lawrie, Rogers, and someone else for him.

[paul253]

I think Greinke would take KC's pick of our best FOUR prospects
to obtain him. If you'd do, say, Lawrie, Rogers, Jeffress. and
Odorizzi for him, I believe that's what it would take.

I think that is over valuing him a little bit. If he were signed for longer then yeah. But he only has two years left on his contract. I don't think any team would offer KC their four best prospects assuming those prospects are actually any good. I personally wouldn't trade Odorizzi, Rogers, and Jeffress for him, let alone include Lawrie, just because I am unwilling to deal our three best pitching prospects. I'd like to start with Jeffress and Lawrie, and hope I could get it done without including Odorizzi and Rogers. It would have to be someone like Heckathorn and/or Peralta as opposed to Rogers and/or Odorizzi for me to do it.

[BrewCrewForever]

Seen that Greinke may now be willing to go to New York and the Yankees and Royals are now talking. Can you imagine if they trade for Greinke and sign Lee? Good God. This could be their rotation:

 

Lee

Greinke

Sabathia

Hughes

Pettitte

 

That would be one of the most insane rotations I have ever seen.

 

Edit: Ooops, and I forgot about Burnett. He had a down year, but still has good stuff and could bounce back. Yikes.

[hawing]

If Zack were to go to NYY, I'd hope his social anxiety and depression are well under control.

[Weirdos19]

Who in the world do the yanks have left in the minors to trade? Maybe eat 40mil of Burnett's salary and package him with their AAA catcher?

 

I don't see a trade happening where Greinke goes to NY.

[TooLiveBrew]

As long as the Royals wouldn't demand Jesus Montero, I could easily see Cashman going all in (as long as the Royals liked the offer) to add Greinke & Lee this offseason.

[PrinceFielderx1]

The Brewers should go all in for an ace like Greinke this off-season if he will come here.

[Principessa21]

I think the report of Greinke waiving his NTC for the Yankees is just a way to get other interested teams to up their ante. I only see the Yankees going after him if they don't get Lee.