My Disdain for Brewer Managers---Why?

[bobskube]

Can you help me answer this question? Why can't I seem to like very

many Brewer managers? I really can't stand Macha with his clueless

expressions in the dugout and his questionable decision-making. I

couldn't stand Yost, Royster, and Lopes, etc. I did like Garner

though.

 

I am an open-minded guy unless I see something very bad. I don't know what happens in the clubhouse at all on a daily basis so obviously I am missing a good amount of what is fact and what is fiction with Ken Macha. I don't need a rah-rah coach, but I don't need a guy who looks like Bernie (Weekend at Bernie's.) I really would like to see them give Randolph a chance if this season goes south.

 

I really like McCarthy for the Pack and Skiles for the Bucks. I even

like Rich Rod and Johnny Beilein for UM and they have been pretty bad. I

just can't seem to wrap my arms around these Brewer managers. Why?

[TooLiveBrew]

Why can't I seem to like very many Brewer managers?

 

I'm sure I'll just barely beat logan on this one, but probably because 99% of them are practically identical. Same mistakes, same cliches, etc.

[DHonks]

I was never really high on Lopes. I loved Scap Iron. I thought Yost was fantastic given his role and deserved a long leash given his outstanding guidance of the prospects. I loved the Macha signing, but by mid-May last year I had learned to despise him.

 

I miss Yost all the time, as he seemed to have a plan, even if it didn't always make sense. Macha often doesn't seem to have a plan, is notorious for being poorly organized in planning, loves to over-play his veterans to the point of over-exposing them (especially to injury), and seems emoionless. With an emotional, fun, energetic team, I really miss Yost's fire.

 

Really, I think that since day one of Macha, we're playing at least 10 games below what we'd have with Yost. I realize he won't be back, but I can't wait til Sveum or Randolph takes over. If the Brewers go 3-7 on this roadtrip, I think we'll have a new manager when we return to Milwaukee

[rluzinski]

Managers become scapegoats for most teams No matter how good a manager is, a significant portion of his moves are bound to fail. And so unless the manager was lucky enough to be on a team with a perennial $100+ mil payroll, the team is going to inevitably have some rough years. When that happens.... see ya!

 

Same is pretty much true for the majority of GMs as well. The mob rules. Hired to be fired.

[dlk9s]

The grass is always greener...

[ilovebeer]

Of all the managers we had, Macha is my least favorite. I want him gone so bad. Next worst manager was Lachmann.

[logan82]

Why can't I seem to like very many Brewer managers?

 

I'm sure I'll just barely beat logan on this one, but probably because 99% of them are practically identical. Same mistakes, same cliches, etc.

I agree with that. Many of the things Yost was disliked for we are seeing Macha doing much the same thing. I forget which season it was but there were some who thought Yost was doing a better job managing the pen one year until about the middle of May, then the pen started to fail and he was called an idiot again.

 

If the bullpen fails you look like an idiot. I doubt Macha would look half as bad right now if Hawkins and Hoffman are pitching better.

 

The grass is always greener...

 

Familiarity breeds contempt.

[The Truth]

Ken Macha is my least favorite manager in the history of baseball, and the team now seems to give up on games where they are down 4 or 5 runs. His firing in inevitable, its only a matter of when. And Melvin should be the next to go, for hiring Macha in the first place

 

I miss Yost's fire. But his handling of the pitching staff was brutal. I sincerely blame Yost for wearing out Ben Sheets

[logan82]

His firing in inevitable, its only a matter of when.

 

As Russ pointed out, that is true of all managers. They are hired to be fired.

[Ennder]

Garner was horrible so I can't answer your question. Baseball managers are bad in general because they hire them for the wrong reasons. Playing baseball does not naturally make you a good manager.

[The Truth]

His firing in inevitable, its only a matter of when.

 

As Russ pointed out, that is true of all managers. They are hired to be fired.

Well, yeah sure, although some retire and some get hired by other teams when their contract runs out. I certainly don't think we need to worry about some other MLB team stealing Ken Macha away anytime soon

 

What I should have said is that Macha's firing either this year or next is inevitable, it is just a matter of when. Mark A has already shown somewhat of a propensity for a short leash. When the Brewers' uninspired play starts effecting attendance, we'll see a change real quickly. Mark A is by his nature a bottom line type of businessman

 

 

[Postseason2006]

Garner was horrible so I can't answer your question. Baseball managers are bad in general because they hire them for the wrong reasons. Playing baseball does not naturally make you a good manager.

Considering he got the Astros to the series, I wouldn't call him horrible.

 

 

[RockCoCougars]

Well, I've never liked Macha. I liked Yost the first two years. Royster was a joke. Hated Lopes. Garner was the last good manager they had. It seemed like he had those undermanned teams competitive almost every year at least into August or so.

[sheethead]

Baseball managers are bad in general because they hire them for the wrong reasons. Playing baseball does not naturally make you a good manager.

I agree with this comment the most. One could argue the respect factor, but with someone like Yost, how much respect would a Braun or Fielder have for a career backup catcher? A non-traditional manager might leave Hawkins in to finish the game after dominating the prior inning and only throwing 13 pitches. But the traditional baseball guy MUST go to his [struggling] closer, because that's the way it is and shall be done.

[joepepsi]

I think most baseball fans don't like their team's manager. Unless they're winning of course. My Red Sox fan friend thinks Francona is at least 50% bonehead. Torre was run out 2 or 3 jobs until he landed with the stacked Yankees team. Now he a beloved cuddly bear, who many consider a great manager.

 

In other sports, particularly football, the head coach may be the most important person in the organization. More important than the talent on the field. In baseball, this simply isn't true with managers. If players perform, the manager is brilliant; sometimes even "innovative". If the players fail, the manager is run out of town on a rail. I think this is why managers are too scared to think outside the box. They all do pretty much the same thing, so when it fails, they can say "we had our guy in there, he just didn't get it done".

 

That said, I don't hate Macha and I think he's smarter than Yost. Yost was good when the team was bad, but as the team improved he couldn't seem to handle the pressure. I don't mind that Macha is rather emotionless on the bench; almost all managers are that way. I do have a hard time figuring out what made Melvin hire him. They don't seem to be on the same page, like he and Yost were in the early days.

[BrewCrewRising]

I think George Bamberger is my favorite Brewers manager of all time.

 

I loved Harvey Kuenn, but if I'm being honest, he just inherited a great team, and knew how to let it loose.

 

Garner had a great team, and gave the Brewers one of their best seasons, but I'm not warm to him. Props to him form not foiling a great team, but I'll never think of him as a manger who can turn the questionable in a possibility.

 

I think Yost was great for what he was hired to do. He was like Moses really. Lead the Brewers across the desert of the lean years, develop the young talent, but was not meant to lead thim into the playoff promised land.

 

Every other manager ranges from 'meh' to Royster (where Royster is its own self-contained term for horrible, horrible, horrible Brewers manager.)

[Invader3K]

I don't think Macha is necessarily "bad", but I do question more and more if he is a good fit for the team he's been given. I think he'd probably be a better fit for a team stacked with veterans, than a team with guys who are still relatively young like the Brewers. It just doesn't seem like he knows how to get the most out of the guys he has under him right now.

[Fear The Chorizo]

I think managers are an extremely overrated aspect of a baseball team. There are qualities that you'd like to see them have, but when it's all said and done a manager has to have a talented team in order to be good at winning baseball games. I think a reason many Brewer fans have disliked/despised Brewer managers over the years is because they've had to manage a poorly constructed roster given to them by management who's hamstrung by their budget.

[RockCoCougars]

I think George Bamberger is my favorite Brewers manager of all time.

 

I loved Harvey Kuenn, but if I'm being honest, he just inherited a great team, and knew how to let it loose.

 

Garner had a great team, and gave the Brewers one of their best seasons, but I'm not warm to him. Props to him form not foiling a great team, but I'll never think of him as a manger who can turn the questionable in a possibility.

 

I think Yost was great for what he was hired to do. He was like Moses really. Lead the Brewers across the desert of the lean years, develop the young talent, but was not meant to lead thim into the playoff promised land.

 

Every other manager ranges from 'meh' to Royster (where Royster is its own self-contained term for horrible, horrible, horrible Brewers manager.)

In my opinion, Bamberger 1 was the best manager the team ever had and it's not even close. He'd be the perfect manager for this team now, I wonder what he could do with some of the young pitchers like Parra, etc. For his second go round in 85 and 86, he just didn't have the horses. He had a lot of old guys past their primes and the young talent was just getting to the majors. Obviously he had a good effect on them, because 1987 was a great year. Which brings me to Trebelhorn, who was also a pretty good manager. The only real problem that I had with him was like Yost, he often had no clue when to pull a starter.

 

Might as well go back on the others as far as I can form an educated opinion...

 

Lachemann..... tried 'new' things- most didn't work. Injuries and age sunk him after one season.

Kuenn.... the right guy at the right time. Let the guys play. His health problems pretty much ensured a short reign.

Rodgers... at the time, I didn't think he got a fair shake, but the team was underachieving and probably wouldn't have gotten to the World Series with him. Apparently not too popular with the players (sound familiar?)

Grammas..... I was kind of young, but he seemed pretty stubborn to me, always seemed to be feuding with a player, kind of came off as a loud mouthed idiot

[brewmann04]

you guys better pray that if macha is fired he not replaced by Willie

[Nottso]

I personally would like to see the Brewers be the first MLB team to implement NFL type coaching. Hitting coach is your offensive coordinator and sets the lineup. Pitching coach is the defensive coordinator and handles the bullpen. Manager oversees the whole deal, telling his coordinators what type of general plan he'd like to use against given opponents.

[Invader3K]

you guys better pray that if macha is fired he not replaced by Willie

He did basically oversee two meltdowns of the Mets. I have heard from some Mets fans I've spoken with personally, that felt he was basically sabotaged and run out on a rail before he got fired, though.

 

 

[1992casey]

As Russ pointed out, that is true of all managers. They are hired to be fired.

 

That's for sure. Before Macha, the Brewers had fifteen managers, counting Bamberger twice and not counting McMillan (1972, 2 games) and Kuenn (1975, 1 game). Two of them (both Bamberger) left on their own accord.

 

And before Melvin, the team had seven GMs. Jim Wilson was the only one that wasn't fired. He left to take a job with Major League Baseball.

 

Kuenn.... the right guy at the right time. Let the guys play. His health problems pretty much ensured a short reign.

 

Harvey was certainly a manager who was brought on because it was felt that a different personality was required. We still see that today. Had the team not been in the World Series, he probably would have been out after the 1982 season. I suppose Dalton found himself in a zim zam and felt forced to keep him on.

 

Really, I think that since day one of Macha, we're playing at least 10 games below what we'd have with Yost.

 

Assuming 10 games vs. 10 wins, I still think that's pretty extreme given the low regard for both managers. Even the statheads, who feel that the difference between top and bottom isn't that much, put Yost pretty low.

 

Anyway, kind of like in the demoralized topic, I don't think "disdain" fits my feelings. "Frustration" would probably be more accurate. But as others have mentioned, so many managers stick to the same old tacks; I really can't count doing that against them. They really have to do some pretty extreme things to really get my goat.

[logan82]

I do have a hard time figuring out what made Melvin hire him. They don't seem to be on the same page, like he and Yost were in the early days.

 

I think is the biggest problem I have with Macha. I don't know of a better way to put it. Melvin and Macha don't seem like they are on the same page.

I personally would like to see the Brewers be the first MLB team to implement NFL type coaching. Hitting coach is your offensive coordinator and sets the lineup. Pitching coach is the defensive coordinator and handles the bullpen. Manager oversees the whole deal, telling his coordinators what type of general plan he'd like to use against given opponents.

 

Macha 2009 handling the pen and Yost handling the daily lineups would be ok with me. Macha doesn't seem to distribute playing time the way I like.

[jeffy]

[quote name=sheethead wrote: A non-traditional manager might leave Hawkins in to finish the game after dominating the prior inning and only throwing 13 pitches. But the traditional baseball guy MUST go to his [struggling] closer, because that's the way it is and shall be done.[/b]

That is my biggest gripe with all managers. They want a formula, in part I think this is because if they are following the formula it is not their fault when it fails. In the example you give, it becomes the closer that failed not that the manager made bad decisions. I think part of the problem is also the players, the bullpen guys want to have defined roles not just be ready any time the manager might call on you. So being unconventional might end up not working out well anyway, due to player psychology.

If Macha leaves Hawkins in and he fails, then it's "why didn't you put the closer in like you are supposed to". It ends up being safer for the manager's career prospects to fail conventionally rather than risk failing unconventionally.

I think Macha is okay. He seems more comfortable with himself than Yost did and just says what he thinks, Yost often seemed overly defensive. I also don't need to see emotional outbursts like some seem to want.