Is Trevor hiding an injury?

[twobrewers]

The change up issue is perplexing. How can you just keep throwing meatballs down the heart of the plate?

 

Time for Braddock!

[Flood Pants]

Can we reconsider the "dead arm" discussion already? Look at his career stats. There was not even a hint of a decline. How do you go from 20 years of dominance to all of the sudden having a dead arm? Wouldn't we expect a gradual decline, like we saw with Suppan? Something is definitely up.

[davego]

Macha seemed just as puzzled as the reporters as to why Hoffman hasn't been throwing his bread-and-butter changeup.

"I asked (pitching coach) Rick (Peterson)," said Macha. "He said he hasn't really talked to Trevor about pitch selection."

I found this in the JS...perhaps there will be a conversation today?

[theavrock]

Macha seemed just as puzzled as the reporters as to why Hoffman hasn't been throwing his bread-and-butter changeup.

"I asked (pitching coach) Rick (Peterson)," said Macha. "He said he hasn't really talked to Trevor about pitch selection."

I found this in the JS...perhaps there will be a conversation today?

 

 

 

I cannot understand this. He has blown three saves and in general has looked below average and the pitching coach doesn't think to ask their changeup specialist why he isn't throwing that pitch??

Everyone here has pointed it out, why can't our pitching coach see this?

[Invader3K]

I don't know, but they need to do something quick. He was throwing straight fastballs all up in the zone yesterday, and getting crushed. Either force him to throw the changeup, or put him on the DL if there is some kind of legitimate physical issue. They have other options to use for closer in the time being.

[sheethead]

Can we reconsider the "dead arm" discussion already?

 

Sure it can be reconsidered, but at the same time it should be considered. So he's had success for 20 years, does that automatically mean we should believe he can do it for another 20? I saw someone mention Moyer at age 47 is pitching effectively this year. So why isn't Maddox or Glavine still pitching if Moyer can do it?

 

Put it this way, he's either injured or done. Take your pick. One thing he hasn't been all year is effective, even in his "saves."

[1992casey]

Dead arm doesn't necessarily mean dead player. We hear about dead arms all the time, frequently in spring training. Players recover from this routinely.

 

I'm not suggesting that Trevor has a dead arm or that he's possibly done or not done or anything else. But I think it's fair that the idea is on the table for discussion.

[RobDeer 45]

Doesn't dead arm mean they can't get their fastball up in mph? He's throwing the same speed he has the last few years. Maybe he's not getting movement or not hitting his spots but I would not say dead arm.

 

I agree, why is the media not asking about the lack of changeups. It all seems fishy that they are not talking about this.

[JohnBriggs12]

While I agree that at some point pitchers are just done, as in they can't quite hit spots with precision or get enough movement on pitches, the few change-ups he's using could point to a problem with his hand and specifically, his fingers. The change is all in the grip. Perhaps he's got some inflammation in his hand or fingers and can't get his grip right. Of course he's not going to go public with this and tip off opponents, but it could be some arthritis is setting in.

[jeffy]

Macha seemed just as puzzled as the reporters as to why Hoffman hasn't been throwing his bread-and-butter changeup.

"I asked (pitching coach) Rick (Peterson)," said Macha. "He said he hasn't really talked to Trevor about pitch selection."

I found this in the JS...perhaps there will be a conversation today?

 

 

 

This is just bizarre...

Macha: How come Trevor is not throwing many change-ups?

Peterson: don't know, never asked.

Macha: oh, okay.

Macha: Weird, eh?

Peterson: Yeah, inorite.

and only now does Macha say "I'll have to talk to him..."

and that in response to a reporter asking about it.

[sheethead]

I agree, why is the media not asking about the lack of changeups. It

all seems fishy that they are not talking about this.

 

Answered

 

Asked why he shied away from throwing changeups, Hoffman said,

"Today, it was pretty much a tied ball game after two pitches. I felt

like in that situation, getting ahead 0-1 and continuing to expand with

the fastball (was the right approach), and the ball was not down and

away.

"I'm pigeon-holing myself into situations where the hitter can be a

little more patient. He doesn't have to offer at (the changeup). I'm

pitching behind in the count. You do that in the big leagues, the

numbers will indicate that. It's more of an 'out' pitch than a 'getting

back in the count' pitch. That's the dynamic of that pitch."

Asked if needs to start throwing his changeup more, no matter what

the count is, Hoffman said, "I think a well-located fastball is a lot

better pitch than ones out over the plate. Obviously, I'm missing there

and they're hitting them pretty hard. It's a function of not

throwing quality strikes.

"The bottom line is it punches the team in the gut. They battled very

hard tonight to put us in position to win. It's similar to the other

games I let get away. It's a tough effect on the ball club. You come in

here and feel the mood."

[zzzmanwitz]

That answer makes me feel a bit better. I think Hoffman can turn it around, I just hope he can show it on the field.

[rluzinski]

A tired arm could force Hoffman to throw harder to get the same velocity, at the expense of accuracy. I don't think that's the case here. It's possible his location is just off right now. Happens to every pitcher but most don't have BP fastball velocity.

 

I wonder what old, proven closer Melvin signs next year?

[davemakovec]

Wouldn't finger or thumb be pretty obvious to him? I know that arms can feel sore or what-not and confuse the pitcher as to what's going on, but a finger is really hard to not know it's injured.

I vote dead arm (he effectively did not have spring training outings) combined with an 83-mph fastball that he's having trouble locating.

[Thurston Fluff]

On baseball tonight about a week or so ago they were talking about how little relievers throw in spring and how it might be effecting their location early on. Usually ESPN just throws stuff out there but if you look at how little Hoffman threw this spring maybe there is something to it. What ever the reason it's got to stop sooner than later.

[thebruce44]

Trevor's fastball sets up his changeup. His fastball is so effective because of his superior location and because of the difference in speed to the changeup. Right now he is not locating his fastball, rendering his changeup less effective (if he even gets the chance to throw it).

 

I blame this entirely on the decision to have him sit out most of spring training.

[Ennder]

Well he threw the changeup today and blew a save. Not liking the fact he bounced 2 of his first 2 changeups in front of the plate and the next one was hit out. That looks much more fishy than just getting some fastballs hit hard.

 

edit: make that 4 bounced in front of the plate in the first 2 hitters.

[Invader3K]

He's lost his control. He just doesn't have it. Either that, or he is hurt and hiding it.

[adamb100]

I would send Trevor down to AAA or something to work on his stuff. He just isnt right this year.

[adamb100]

Last season he didnt show any signs of decline, if you're showing signs of decline because of age it's usually not by blowing every save chance you get.

[Rhett16]

Is getting old an injury?

 

Seriously, at some point guys do just "lose it". There is a reason you don't see many active pitchers his age.

[hawing]

Either that, or he is hurt and hiding it.

What advantage is there to hiding an injury? I'm not asking to challenge Invader3K, just wondering.

If it's a pride thing, I'd have to say the strategy is backfiring.

[Gobias Industries]

Exactly, hawing. He started the year on the dl last year, didn't he? I just don't see the point of a player ever hiding an injury. It doesn't make sense in any scenario.

 

Hoffman basically said the same thing I was thinking earlier in the thread. His changeup is rarely a strike. If he falls behind with regularity, he's gonna get pounded.

[JonnyLungs]

What advantage is there to hiding an injury? I'm not asking to challenge Invader3K, just wondering.

If it's a pride thing, I'd have to say the strategy is backfiring.

I don't think it is so much that a guy hides an injury. But an injury that takes a little out of you might not be all that noticeable until their performance suffers.

[hawing]

I don't think it is so much that a guy hides an injury. But an injury that takes a little out of you might not be all that noticeable until their performance suffers.

Maybe guys don't 'hide' injuries, but in the spirit of the thread title I was pondering the question anyway.

And as for "until their performance suffers"...I daresay Trevor's there.