Why aren't Brewer pitchers protecting Brewer hitters?

[pebadger]

I'm waiting for the day that a local prosecutor decides to get involved in a beaning or a mound rush. It has happened in hockey. It will happen one day in baseball when somebody gets badly hurt. There is no license to commit assault in sports events. The big issue here would always be one of intent, and in that way the batters are probably at a doulbe disadvantage as it will almost always be easier to prove intent when a batter goes out to pummel a pitcher than it will when a pitcher plunks a batter. It could get really interesting in such a case if there was testimony that a manager "ordered" an act of violence that resulted in somebody being seriously injured. There is always the possibility that rather than a prosecutor being the one to bring all these legal issues to a head, they will instead come up in a civil case after a player who has had his career significantly altered brings a civil case alleging an assault.

 

Sorry to take the "fun" out of this, but it's always fun until someone loses an eye. Melvin's comments on the issue today are also worth considering. Until the players decide to take care of other players, it's hard to feel all that sorry for them as a group. Yes, it stinks within the context of the team you play with this year when you're getting plunked a lot, but I tend to think that the best way to make the problem go away is to

 

a) for the players to decide that plunking/retaliating in any form just has run its course and won't be done anymore, and

b) for the players/clubs/MLB to back that up by instituting a process for imposing significant penalties in the first instance, not after the cycle of plunking/retaliation has already started.

 

I tend to think that the large "lead" that the Brewers have in the NL HBP derby this season is mostly a statistical anomaly, but given the fact that the Brewers have been at or very near the top of the league for at least 5 or 6 seasons there are probably some identifiable factors at work here over the longer term as well, not including Ken Macha.

[logan82]

 

Brewers general manager Doug Melvin has a different solution to the
problem: If hitters are tired of being hit and worried about injury,
they should ask their union to respond.

"When they have their union meetings, players should stand up and
say, ‘Somebody’s going to get hurt and lose millions of dollars. If we
don’t stand up and protect ourselves, who’s going to do it for us?’

“If somebody gets hit in the head, the pitcher would get fined
$25,000. We can’t fine them that much. It’s not going to get solved
unless the position players stand up in a union meeting. It’s their
careers.

“Somebody’s going to get hit in the eye and lose his career. Nobody
else can stop it unless the players want to do it themselves. The time
to do it is with the labor deal coming up.”

Actually that's a pretty good idea. Make your union work for you.

 

[snyttri]

"Make your union work for you."

The pitchers union or the position players union? I think that is just an attempt to pass the hot potato. Opposing players have a conflict of interest that is best resolved by a third party (an umpire if you will).

[AdvantageSchneider]

I would think it will be a cold day in hell when you see the players union lobby to fine pitchers $25k.

 

Either Doug is just trying to pass the buck and get on to more pressing issues, or he's starting to lose it if he really thinks that has any chance of happening.

[danzig6767]

Baseball Jesus admires every one of his HR's (and several of his fly outs), crowds the plate, and yet has only been hit once.

Yea i'm getting sick of hearing how much Weeks crowds the plate and thus that's the reason he gets hit so much.

 

Watch Weeks close in the batters box, is he really so abnormally hanging over the plate? I'm not seeing it. Weeks might be a bit closer to the plate than the average hitter, but hardly some situation were Rickie is standing right on the inside stripe of the batters box as implied by some who consistently talk about Weeks crowding the plate so much.

[jeffy]

I would think it will be a cold day in hell when you see the players union lobby to fine pitchers $25k.

 

What about if the fine went to the union?

 

Any fines should also probably be based on the players salary...maybe one games pay for each head shot. That'd be about $2500 at the league minimum and maybe up to $150K for the highest paid pitchers.

[Mr QL]

How about we just hit them back? What a novel idea.

[jeffy]

Macha pointed to Rule 8.02d, dealing with hit batters. There is a comment written after the rule advising umpires that given “the skill level of most major-league pitchers,” hitting a batter in the head should be deemed “more likely than not” intentional and result in ejection.

 

Macha suggested that if umpires followed that instruction routinely, pitchers would stop throwing at batters’ heads.

 

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/99984234.html

 

 

Is it possible that going this route...quoting rules, complaining to the league, etc. is perceived by the umpires as criticizing them and therefore they have adopted an alternate idea: a Brewer pitcher hitting a batter anywhere should be deemed “more likely than not” intentional and result in ejection?

[jerichoholicninja]

Whether it is the correct way or not, Macha is approaching this whole situation in a way it never has been before. He will either open the eyes of the players, league and union and be hailed as revolutionary that "cleaned up" the game or more than likely continue to get his batters hit and pitchers ejected while looking like a whiny whimp.

 

The next time Prince gets one up around the head he needs to go to whoever is pitching demand retaliation or he will charge his own mound.

[logan82]

Weeks gets hit a lot. He is getting hit at a normal rate. Fielder is getting hit a little more than normal and the rest of the guys are almost never getting hit. This whole thing is way overblown.

[TooLiveBrew]

Fielder's been getting hit a lot more than "a little more than normal". His career avg. entering this season was roughly one HBP per 58 PAs. This season it has been roughly one per 27 PAs. That's a drastic increase. While I'm not certain that it's been anything more than random variance, it's quite possible that (for whatever reason) Prince has been targeted as a guy to bean by numerous MLB teams this season.

[RockCoCougars]

If Prince charged the mound once and beat down the pitcher, I have a feeling that the HBP variance would shrink. I wonder if Boras told Prince not to charge the mound.....he wouldn't want to hurt his rep with prospective employers, now would he?

[logan82]

If he charged the mound he would get fined and suspended. Of course having your teammates retaliate gets them suspended, and they don't get paid when they are suspended.

 

Fielder is getting hit at twice his normal rate but if you take out Weeks we are right in the middle of the pack on HBP.

[Schlitz001]

Yea i'm getting sick of hearing how much Weeks crowds the plate and thus that's the reason he gets hit so much.

I agree that Weeks isn't hanging over the plate like people suggest. The reason he gets hit so much is because he doesn't do much to avoid the baseball coming at him. If a ball is headed towards his torso he twists his body so that the ball hits him in the side or the back, where most players would duck or get out of the way.

[jerichoholicninja]

Weeks gets hit a lot. He is getting hit at a normal rate. Fielder is getting hit a little more than normal and the rest of the guys are almost never getting hit. This whole thing is way overblown.

I think the fact that Macha has been pretty vocal about it says that it's not overblown. He seems to think there is something behind it and Macha is never a guy to say anything of substance so this tells me that at least the Brewers so it as a problem.

 

Let's also not forget that there is a difference between being grazed by an inside fastball or plunked by bad curveball and getting hit in the head. In just the last few weeks Rickie and Gomez have been hit in the head and Prince had one thrown over his head and was then drilled on the next pitch. Also, in Tuesday game how many Brewers had to get their head out of the way of a close pitch to their face? I remember at least 3 instances in that one game. Major league pitchers should have better control than that but this is the Cubs we are talking about.

[logan82]

Whether or not it's intentional is open for interpretation. Bottom line in my opinion is that unless you are going to help pay your teammates wages for their suspension, you either need to protect yourself or get your union to do it. The union is preventing MLB from really cracking down on hitting players. MLB suspends a player and they get to appeal which leads to a reduced or dropped suspension. Basically a slap on the wrist. Even retaliating has questionable results in preventing further HBP.

[danzig6767]

Whether or not it's intentional is open for interpretation. Bottom line in my opinion is that unless you are going to help pay your teammates wages for their suspension, you either need to protect yourself or get your union to do it. The union is preventing MLB from really cracking down on hitting players. MLB suspends a player and they get to appeal which leads to a reduced or dropped suspension. Basically a slap on the wrist. Even retaliating has questionable results in preventing further HBP.

Yea, Venters got his suspension dropped entirely even though he threw a pitch over Fielders head and the next one drilled him in the back. Great job by the league in rewarding Macha for supposedly taking the high road in that situation.

[snyttri]

It doesn't necessarily follow that because a fine can be appealed MLB is helpless. Making fines unappealable would invite abuse of authority.

[Hammer]

Bump. Is it time to dot a member of the Reds? I think so. This game is already out of hand and Braun just left the game AGAIN from a HBP. C'mon Wolf, carry out the CODE RED!

[1992casey]

unless you are going to help pay your teammates wages for their suspension

 

Teams have been known to pay players during their suspensions if they feel the league decision is wrong.

[logan82]

So if it wasn't intentional the team will pay but if they ask the guy to hit somebody they won't?