Why aren't Brewer pitchers protecting Brewer hitters?

[hawing]

Not to be nit picking, but since you kind of asked, you're thinking of "cohere."

[Baldkin]

One of the major problems on this team has been the apparent lack of intensity. They don't seem to perform well under pressure and don't seem to care too much. As a former hard core sports guy, one of the things the opposition will respect is hard-nosed respectful intensity. In football, basketball, etc. teams get credit for paying tough defense without being dirty. The only place that can really be shown in baseball is by hitting the other team (not in the head) to let them know that they can't hit your guys without getting hit back. It shows you are a team and you'll protect each other. Doesn't really matter if you're right or not, its part of the idea that cohesion builds a better team and you're in it together. Brewer pitchers, even if they get ejected, need to retaliate to help this team cohese (if there is such a word).

I want to make sure I have this right.

These guys, being paid millions of dollars, need one of our pitchers to hit someone so they actually care and try to do well?

And why does it have to be on our pitchers who retaliate? Why can't our hitters protect themselves?

You really think anyone would ever throw at Prince again if he charged the mound and full out tackled the opposing pitcher?

[RockCoCougars]

Once again....Like the often lackadaisical play on the field, this is a reflection of the manager. In many clubhouses, guys would get guff for not charging the mound or a pitcher not protecting the hitters. Macha has probably told the players not to do either. This team looks like it is one made of several small cliques (some of one), most of which probably hate Macha (with a few that love him)- as opposed to the 2008 team that seemed to actually be pretty tight. What a difference a manager makes, and it will be the second best day (next to the Suppan release) of the Brewer year this year when Macha is canned.

[jerichoholicninja]

Last night Josh Beckett his two Cleveland Indians. Cleveland retaliated and hit two Red Sox batters. The second Red Sox, Adrian Beltre, charged the mound. Ken Macha needs to just realize that this is the way it works. It may not be right but it's the way it works. I'd have to guess that both pitchers in the CLE/BOS game tonight are going to think twice about coming inside just in case they accidentally hit someone. If you want opposing pitchers to stop pitching inside and hitting your batters do something about it instead of crying to MLB who has shown they will do nothing about it.

[FVBrewerFan]

I'll also add this. Why has Pujols only been hit once this year? He crowds the plate every bit as much as Fielder and Weeks. So why isn't he ver hit? Because Larusa has a reputation for retaliating. That makes him a jerk and hated by other teams, but his players love him.

[crewcrazy]

You really think anyone would ever throw at Prince again if he charged the mound and full out tackled the opposing pitcher?

I know you were asking someone else, but yes, I think they would. Baseball memory is incredibly short. Just take a look at this debate -- the Brewers have retaliated in recent weeks, and it's already been forgotten.

[Invader3K]

When have they retaliated? I honestly don't remember.

[crewcrazy]

An argument could be made that there were varying degrees of intent, but here are some instances of when the Brewers hit an opposing batter after a Brewer was hit, going back to the Atlanta series:

 

July 16th - Fielder hit by Tommy Hanson, Kameron Loe later hits Alex Gonzalez

July 17th - Venters incident

July 18th - Manny Parra hits Jason Heyward, David Riske hits Troy Glaus

July 22nd - Weeks hit by Ross Ohlendorf, Yovani Gallardo hits Delwyn Young the next half inning, Todd Coffey throws behind Jose Tabata on a 3-0 count

July 27th - McGehee hit by Edinson Volquez, Todd Coffey hits Jonny Gomes.

 

Granted, sometimes the situation leads us to believe that they weren't intentional (Riske's, IIRC, loaded the bases), but Coffey throwing behind Tabata was pretty blatantly intentional.

[jerichoholicninja]

July 18th - Manny Parra hits Jason Heyward, David Riske hits Troy Glaus

These two are debatable. Parra hit him in the leg on I believe a curveball and Glaus had his jersey grazed by a two seam fastball.

[CheezWizHed]

These two are debatable.

 

As have been most of the Brewers getting hit. I don't get to watch many games, but as reported here (even Gomez), most have been unintentional or questionable at best.

[RockCoCougars]

These two are debatable.

 

As have been most of the Brewers getting hit. I don't get to watch many games, but as reported here (even Gomez), most have been unintentional or questionable at best.

I disagree. There is a reason that the Brewers get hit so much. They have the reputation of cocky young punks without the brass (and now skills) to back it up.

[DuWayne Steurer]

These two are debatable.

 

As have been most of the Brewers getting hit. I don't get to watch many games, but as reported here (even Gomez), most have been unintentional or questionable at best.

I disagree. There is a reason that the Brewers get hit so much. They have the reputation of cocky young punks without the brass (and now skills) to back it up.

Where are you getting that information?

[CheezWizHed]

Where are you getting that information?

 

Tony LaRussa

[RockCoCougars]

These two are debatable.

 

As have been most of the Brewers getting hit. I don't get to watch many games, but as reported here (even Gomez), most have been unintentional or questionable at best.

I disagree. There is a reason that the Brewers get hit so much. They have the reputation of cocky young punks without the brass (and now skills) to back it up.

Where are you getting that information?

Oh. I don't know, the 'untucking', the 'grenade' home run celebration, the 'run off' homerun....mostly the fact that I've seen these guys 'admire' scores of home runs, but I don't remember a one of them ever charging the mound (Prince's under the stands rampage flanked by security at Dodger stadium doesn't count). I guess that the fact they are getting drilled a full 2/3 over the major league average is just some weird statistical anomaly - especially when you combine that with the fact that they are leading the league in home runs.

[RightFieldCoder]

Baseball Jesus admires every one of his HR's (and several of his fly outs), crowds the plate, and yet has only been hit once.

[jerichoholicninja]

I still have yet to understand how this team is cocky. Braun and Fielder take one step to watch a homerun and then run around the bases. I don't know how that's different that what every other baseball player does. As for the celebrations, they are TEAM celebrations that were fun to watch. It's not like Prince was slapping every infielder in the face as he rounded the bases. It's not like they made a big show about untucking their jerseys AFTER the game was over. This team has had some veterans that have been around for a while (Counsel, Cameron, Suppan, Hoffman) who would have put a stop to anything if it was disrespecting the game, but they didn't. They participated in it. If there was anyone on the team that gives off a sense of cockiness it's Braun. But he isn't the one getting hit the most.

[mletto157]

especially when you combine that with the fact that they are leading the league in home runs.

 

Makes sense to me... your goint to be a lot more careful against a team where 75% of the roster could make you pay for a mistake the way the Brewers do. So, since you are being more careful not throwing over the plate, you are more likely to hit someone. Plus, Rickie has always gotten hit at a crazy pace... take out his and we have to be about on par with most teams.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I disagree. There is a reason that the Brewers get hit so much. They have the reputation of cocky young punks without the brass (and now skills) to back it up.

Where are you getting that information?

Oh. I don't know, the 'untucking', the 'grenade' home run celebration, the 'run off' homerun....mostly the fact that I've seen these guys 'admire' scores of home runs, but I don't remember a one of them ever charging the mound (Prince's under the stands rampage flanked by security at Dodger stadium doesn't count). I guess that the fact they are getting drilled a full 2/3 over the major league average is just some weird statistical anomaly - especially when you combine that with the fact that they are leading the league in home runs.

It's one thing to state the facts. They hit a lot of homeruns, they get hit by a lot of pitches. Neither of these are disputable. "they have the reputiation of being cocky young punks" though? I'd like to know what you've heard from insiders that allowed you to take that leap, beyond anything more than pure speculation.

[mletto157]

I agree RoCO, just because those two statements are true doesn't even have to mean they are directly related...

 

And even if they are related, as I said above... it doesn't have to mean it's because other teams don't like them for some reason.

[naivin]

After the Hawkins thing today, f ainyone still thinks this entire HBP situation is not completely ridiculous, I defy you to tell me how. But, at least I guess we know why Brewer pitchers aren't retaliating. I'm a already ready to see Macha go, but throw this down as another significant reason why (For the record, very bad umpiring).

[Invader3K]

Get hit in the head/back = nothing.

 

Get grazed on the jersey = pitcher ejected.

 

Yep, makes perfect sense.

[naivin]

What's the possible outcome of this whole thing? Brewer batters are going to get more and more frustrated and angry, and eventually feel the need take matters into their own hands. That's when someone is likely to get hurt. Who will be largely to blame? These idiot umpires and MLB.

[TooLiveBrew]

mostly the fact that I've seen these guys 'admire' scores of home runs

 

Hitters across the league admire HRs/2Bs every single day of play. The Brewers aren't worse offenders than any other team, they just tend to hit more HRs than most teams.

[naivin]

The players certainly have some responsibility to deal with this, but if Prince Fielder or Ryan Braun get hit in the hand and go on the DL for the year (or get hit in the head, and see their career potentially come to an end), is that reason enough to finally get rid of Macha and try to bring in someone who might actually care about this (The guy is almost assuredly not back next year regardless, so shouldn't they use the rest of this year to audition Randolph or Sveum anyway?)? Do Melvin and Attanasio really want this team going through the rest of this season looking/playing this impotent? Obviously they need to upgrade the pitching, but i would say the culture around this team is getting very sad, very quickly.

[Diskono]

I really think this has more to do with the hitters' tendencies (or skill, if you want to call it that) than whether or not our pitchers are intentionally padding the opponent's OBP. Fielder and Weeks have always gotten HBP a ton...even under dirt kickin', 360-f-bomb Ned, as well as with all of their minor league managers. It's almost always the same guys at the top of the HBP leaderboards, and it doesn't matter who their manager is.