Power 50 discussion -- Latest: September Power 50 now up!

[Never Outhustled]

I see that you didn't choose to refute my point about Cutter's defense. We'll see how he develops, but lacking the skills to play a competent outfield is not a good sign for his prowess at this part of the game. Oh, and I do realize that an outfield position and 2B are vastly different in terms of what skills are required to play them. *Edit - And I honestly do not remember if he gave up on playing just CF, or if he could not handle a corner spot either.

He didn't play well in CF, but how well could he be expected to play when it was a new position for him? He was a HS SS. 2B was new to him too, as is 3B. No one plays well at 3B without experience. I don't see him as a 3B, but I do see him as a 2B. As we see with Gennett's high error total, switching to a new position takes time. I saw nothing physically missing from Cutter as a 2B last year.

 

 

 

BF: Okay, last guy—holding out any hope for Cutter Dykstra?

 

KG: Zero. Easily the most disappointing guy on the team. Just horrible at third base with both mental and physical errors, bad footwork, not much of a hitter, and he's not a runner anymore, that's the real concern. Scout had him at 4.25 [seconds] to first base last night, and he was booking it trying to beat out a ground ball. So max effort and he's average. I just don't see anything there, and I can't find a scout who does either.

 

 

So he's either hurt, lost a step, or was dogging it.

First off, Goldstien is a hack. Secondly, he saw Cutter play 1 game. I've seen him more. If Cutter was timed poorly, either he was hurt, or the scouts thumb was too fat for his stop watch, because Cutter never dogs it, and runs very well. He has 13 steals and 4 triples, so there's evidence even if you don't trust my eyes.

[sheetskout]

How Scarpetta is that low is beyond me. And Odorizzi should be #2 right now.

[uwisfan]

I like Gamel, but no way he is viewed as top 5 in the organization right now. Considering his terrible offense this year, we are fortunate that the Brewers didnt hand him a position (like Escobar), though they would have if not for McGeheee. Defensively, he doesnt have a position yet either. At age 25, I feel a number of pitching prospects rate higher right now.

[battlekow]

I

like Gamel, but no way he is viewed as top 5 in the organization right

now.

We don't take this into consideration in the ratings, or else Salome would have tumbled long before this month's rankings.

Considering his terrible offense this year, we are fortunate that

the Brewers didnt hand him a position (like Escobar), though they would

have if not for McGeheee.

I addressed this in the Gamel thread.

[LouisEly]

From his hitting coach Matt Erickson quoted here a week ago:

 

"Timber Rattlers hitting coach Matt Erickson breaks down Cutter Dykstra:

 

- Offensive progress:

"First of all, the kid looks healthy this year. Obviously, he got off

to a rough start here offensively (last season). He had some mechanical

issues we were working on. But he never really found a whole lot of

confidence and therefore never really got into a rhythm.

 

"This

year, he came to spring training and you could tell immediately that he

did some work in the offseason. One, he did look healthy and two, his

swing looked real good. He had a definite plan in the early morning

into his early work. A lot of the stuff we tried to develop last year,

here — we talk a lot about first year, the process of developing a

routine, something that you believe in and then build on that everyday

— he bought into that. He definitely has a routine now, off the tee and

his flips.

 

"We talk about backside turn, starting your swing

with your lower half and I told him today he arguably, right now, might

have the best lower half on our team, which produces a lot of bat

speed. He's a very confident kid right now. He's having some success.

Everything he's doing is very repeatable and he feels that,

offensively, he's got some confidence and it shows. So it's fun to

watch."

 

- Defense: "I know we've bounced him around the past couple of years at a couple of positions.

 

"He

struggled in the outfield last year and we moved him to second.

Obviously, we didn't have an opening there when he came here (because

of Scooter Gennett), but we did have an opening at

third. It's a credit to his versatility and his willingness to bounce

around and do anything to get into the lineup. We've had a talk about

that. The more positions you can play, the more opportunities you're

going to get to be in the lineup. If you swing the bat, the manager is

going to find room for you somewhere.

 

"At third base, it's

shown over the last couple of weeks that he's getting more comfortable

over there as far as positioning. When we first put him out there, he

was looking into the dugout on every hitter. Now he's doing his

positioning pretty much on his own. He's taking his time. He

understands he has a little more time at third base, get your feet

under you and make a good throw. He's turning more into a complete

player than we saw last year."

[colbyjack]

I can certainly see the argument for Gennett, and in the defense of my P50 contributors, I had him ranked the lowest on my own list. And keep in mind that I raved about this guy before the Brewers even draft and signed him, and was thrilled that they did so.

 

When compiling my list I wanted to get both he and Cody Scarpetta higher than where I had them, but Gennett has been slowly but surely creeping up, and will continue to do so. There are some good players ahead of him right now that I have a hard time drastically moving up and down just to make a spot for these two. I always remind people that the P50 is a prospect list, not a hot list.

 

Also, it wasn't that Gennett was asking for a lot of money, but he was an Aflac All-American the summer before he was drafted, so his expectations were pretty high about where and what he would get to turn pro. Plus, a commitment to FSU is nothing to scoff at. He had a poor spring being known as one of the better, pure bats available and didn't look as good at the plate. Couple that with his less than ideal body type and you had a player with a high potential for dropping further than he should have.

 

I agree that it's time to start paying more attention to Dykstra. The organization needs to find a better position for him though, even if it means finding out a way separating him from Gennett so they both can play 2B.

 

As for Odorizzi, he's another player I really like when we drafted him, but I always try to temper my enthusiasm with any young arm. He very well may be the #1 or 2 prospect in the system, but right now, given the way Braddock, Axford and even Lucroy are all contributing at the big-league level, I have a hard time putting anyone ahead of them. Lawrie of course has started to show what he's capable of doing at the plate, and I haven't given up on Gamel, and I doubt the Brewers have either. I remember slowly but surely dropping Josh Butler out of the P50 a couple of years ago when he suffered a poor season, only to have him storm back and prove that he did indeed belong. You could even make a similar comparison to Corey Hart, whom most people wanted to see gone last offseason despite the fact that he still had considerable promise.

[dadofandrew]

What I meant is, if Scooter had been taken where his talent placed him, not his signability, say in the 4th round, he'd be ranked far higher. It's my opinion age is frequently overlooked in the P50, and for him to be doing what he is as a 20 year-old, just drafted last June, in Appleton, is worthy of a far higher ranking.

[battlekow]

I agree that it's time to start paying more attention to Dykstra. The organization needs to find a better position for him though, even if it means finding out a way separating him from Gennett so they both can play 2B.

Because Dykstra is a year old and a right-handed hitter, I wonder if the Brewers would consider skipping him over Brevard County next year straight to Huntsville. Space Coast isn't nearly as hard on lefties as it is on righties, so Gennett shouldn't need to be "protected" from it.

[colbyjack]

What I meant is, if Scooter had been taken where his talent placed him, not his signability, say in the 4th round, he'd be ranked far higher. It's my opinion age is frequently overlooked in the P50, and for him to be doing what he is as a 20 year-old, just drafted last June, in Appleton, is worthy of a far higher ranking.

 

I disagree. All four of us are well aware that Scooter should have been taken a lot higher on talent alone in last year's draft, and as I even noted above, he was one of my favorite draft-eligible talents even before the draft took place. I can buy the argument weighed on age vs. production vs. level.

[MoreTrife]

Thanks P50 contributers for something to look forward to on this horrible Monday!

[CheezWizHed]

I think Scooter is in an OK location based on who is ahead of him. But Arnett just behind Scooter and ahead of Bucci, Lasker, Butler and Davis is a head scratcher to me... He is a 22yo college pitcher that hasn't figured out A-ball yet. Not even close. Sure, he still has potential, but if you compare Arnett at 22 and Kh Davis at 22 both in A-ball. One deserving a promotion and the other deserving a demotion (well, he had it for a while)... Arnett should be around 25 at best.

 

Estrada also puzzles me as to why he is on the P50. I wouldn't be shocked if the Brewers cut him as soon as he is "healthy"

[colbyjack]

Arnett should be around 25 at best.

 

Again, this is a prospect list, not a hot list. The start to Arnett's professional career may be disappointing, but he still remains one of the most talented players in the system. He's a 6-foot-6 or so athletic righty that can sit in the low-90s, touch the mid-90s, and has one of the best breaking balls in the system.

 

Bucci, Lasker, Butler and Khris Davis don't have the upside of Arnett, even if they are performing much better at the same (or higher) level.

[CheezWizHed]

But part of a prospect is the likely-hood of reaching MLB, right? Otherwise, Brent Brewer should still be on the list (as he is still highly talented)...

 

I didn't name those people because they are HOT, but because they are improving and moving in the right direction (not even this year, but last year included). And Khris D especially, since they are the same age and at the same level.

 

Arnett has talent and I'm not ready to give up on him, but right now, his chances of figuring it out and making the MLB are dropping dramatically. And I thought there were reports of him sitting in the high 80s with his FB, not low to mid 90s... He can't live off his draft scouting reports forever, right?

[Mr Southpaw]

Finally Mike McClendon comes in at 43. All he does in perform.

[TooLiveBrew]

Arnett has talent and I'm not ready to give up on him, but right now, his chances of figuring it out and making the MLB are dropping dramatically. And I thought there were reports of him sitting in the high 80s with his FB, not low to mid 90s... He can't live off his draft scouting reports forever, right?

Given that he's been completely overhauling his mechanics, I'd say it's too early to worry about velocity with Arnett.

[Never Outhustled]

.

And I thought there were reports of him sitting in the high 80s with his FB, not low to mid 90s...

His low readings came when he taking something off the try to find the strikezone. He's been at his normal velocity when he's in a groove, and has been seen as high as 97 this year.

[Invader3K]

Arnett with a nice outing tonight. Hopefully it's a sign he'll be moving up the Power 50 sooner than later.

[And That]

But part of a prospect is the likely-hood of reaching MLB, right? Otherwise, Brent Brewer should still be on the list (as he is still highly talented)...

Brewer quit baseball 2 months ago, that's the primary reason he's not on the list. He was in the top 10 of the Power 50 a number of times in late '07-early '08, and was still on the list in August of last year.

 

If Arnett is still struggling 3 and 4 years into his pro career, he certainly won't be as high as he is now. As it is, he signed 13 months ago and has 107 innings of pro experience. Not a great 107 innings to be sure, but the stuff is still basically there.

[UeckerPowell]

I agree that it's time to start paying more attention to Dykstra. The organization needs to find a better position for him though, even if it means finding out a way separating him from Gennett so they both can play 2B.

Because Dykstra is a year old and a right-handed hitter, I wonder if the Brewers would consider skipping him over Brevard County next year straight to Huntsville. Space Coast isn't nearly as hard on lefties as it is on righties, so Gennett shouldn't need to be "protected" from it.

Not a bad idea, but with Brett Lawrie going to Nashville next season where does that leave Eric Farris? I wouldn't be surprise to see Farris starting at second for Huntsville next season.

[battlekow]

Not a bad idea, but with Brett Lawrie going to Nashville next season where does that leave Eric Farris? I wouldn't be surprise to see Farris starting at second for Huntsville next season.

Well, you never know, but I wouldn't be entirely surprised if Lawrie wasn't at Nashville next year. If he is, never too early to start transitioning Farris into the utility role that will be his ticket to the big leagues.

[UeckerPowell]

Yeah utility is Farris best chance for reaching the majors. I've seen him compared to Chone Figgins more than once. I wonder what kind of range he has at short it couldn't be any worst then Zelous Wheeler.

[JohnBriggs12]

Two guys who I think should have been added to the list are both at Brevard:

 

Sean Halton: He raked last year minus the power you'd expect out of a 6'5" 240 lb first baseman. But after jumping two levels to Brevard, he now has 9 HR in a pitchers park and leads the entire minor league system in RBI. Yes he's 23 (barely), but without much in front of him at 1B, he figures to continue progressing.

 

Shawn Zarraga: It's tough to get much attention as a 44th rounder, but a 21 year old catcher with a .392 OBP at high A ball? It's not like he hadn't done anything previously either having put up an .868 OPS at age 19 in rookie ball in 08, with a .432 OBP.

 

Let's hear it for the Shawns or the Seans whatever you prefer.

[CheezWizHed]

His low readings came when he taking something off the try to find the strikezone. He's been at his normal velocity when he's in a groove, and has been seen as high as 97 this year.

 

That is very good to hear. I had not seen/heard/read that. Just reports of him in the mid-80s and people speculating that was his main problem.

 

Brewer quit baseball 2 months ago, that's the primary reason he's not on the list. He was in the top 10 of the Power 50 a number of times in late '07-early '08, and was still on the list in August of last year.

 

Should have marked that blue... Trying to use hyperbole to show that for a prospect to remain a prospect, potential has to show up as production at some point.

 

If Arnett is still struggling 3 and 4 years into his pro career, he certainly won't be as high as he is now. As it is, he signed 13 months ago and has 107 innings of pro experience. Not a great 107 innings to be sure, but the stuff is still basically there.

 

Well, yes, obviously. And he isn't as high now as he was a year ago, so his struggles have shown in your rankings. I just think that Khris at 22, killing A-ball should be higher than Arnett at 22, who has struggled mightily at both A and R+, this year and last. Sure, Arnett has more potential, but there are some big red flags waving right now also...

 

Maybe this is overcompensation for taking Dykstra off the P50 after a bad year (eerily similar to Arnett this year?) only to have him bounce back? I'd happily have Arnett bounce back like Dykstra. I'll put back my signature about the "Great selection of Awesome!". http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[LouisEly]

I think McClendon graced the list back in 2007 when he was still a starter with West Virginia, but I'm too lazy to look it up.

 

Curious if Frerichs got any votes from anyone. In his last three years, most of last year lost to injury, he has 151 Ks and only 114 H in 144 IP.

[dadofandrew]

There are exceptions to every rule, but only rarely do 2B in the low minors have the ability to play SS. I've assumed Farris can't play SS, and until he does, will just figure he does not have the range and/or arm.