Macha: would a mid-season change be appropriate?

[DougJones43]

This team's pitching staff is well below average. A different manager isn't really going to change that. Besides, I've all but given up hope on finding a competent manager among the pool of "baseball men" whom GMs view as the only option.

[bklynbrewcrew]

DougJones43]This team's pitching staff is well below average. A different manager isn't really going to change that. Besides, I've all but given up hope on finding a competent manager among the pool of "baseball men" whom GMs view as the only option.

Bobby Valentine is the perfect candidate to replace Macha. He is a fiery leader who is great with young players and knows how to make in game decisions as well as anyone in the game.

[joepepsi]

He could be better at managing the pitching staff, but given how the pitchers have performed so far, it's difficult to put the blame on him.

 

At the start of the season I was worried Edmonds was going to write the lineup every day, replacing Kendall as the Player the Manager Fears Most, but I think Macha has actually done well with the position players. Gerut is a favorite of mine, but it's hard to argue with the way Edmonds and Hart have been playing. Kotteras is playing one game a series, Counsell is getting regular playing time, Inglett is doing well and should be hitting himself into the lineup a little more often.

 

Basically the bullpen has blown 2-3 games, and the starters have been mediocre. I'm not sure how that's Macha's fault.

[BuckyBrewer61]

Basically the bullpen has blown 2-3 games, and the starters have been mediocre. I'm not sure how that's Macha's fault.

It's not Macha's fault, but failing to put the team in the best position to win is. Leaving Hawkins in to face Fukudome in Chicago when he was clearly not hitting his spots was not in the team's best interest. Leaving Narveson in when he obvously couldn't manage to get a pitch down in the strikezone and had already given up a single and two walks was not in the team's best interest. Putting Gomez in the 2 spot is not in the team's best interest. If he had made better decisions in all these situations, would we be in first place? Probably not, they may not even have any more wins, but over the course of the year these poor decisions will add up. Of course the execution of the players is most responsible for our record, but can you really say Macha has maximized the Brewers' chances to win this year? That's ultimately the manager's job, and I think many of us feel Ken has not done so.

[pete]

I can't believe anyone would want Yost back. Billy Hall would still be at 3rd

 

Hall was Macha's starting third baseman through the first month+ of the 2009 season

 

 

Suppan would be locked into the rotation for the year and we'd have press conferences about how Soup pitched great.

 

This also appears to be Macha's plan.

 

So Macha sucks because he started Hall at all? And what made you think that Macha planned on using Suppan for the year?

[NYChez]

I get a sense that it's 50/50 that Macha won't see June 1. That's around the time the '82 Brewers made their change (with a 22-23 record).

[pete]

The weird obsession with bunting is the absolute last reason to criticize Macha.

 

It is bad game strategy in most cases. He is giving up outs. It handicaps you when you only have 24-26 outs instead of 27.

 

Its hard not to be sarcastic here. A big criticism of Macha is that he doesn't bunt enough. I'd like to see more bunting for hits and fewer sacrifices. You explain how sacrifices are often bad strategy. A lot of the noise about how horrible Macha is, besides the amorphous things like "fire" is that he doesn't play enough small ball - you know sacrifices. I criticized that idea.

 

Screaming wildly and spitting on an umpire is stupid over something like a blown call on a tag or the like.

 

Maybe, maybe not. Players seem to appreciate the support.

 

Not supporting them most of the time while he made monkey faces and then having a grossly disproportianate response that included going postal doesn't impress me as "supporting" his players. Macha goes out, complains, even swears. Should his responses be unrelated to the actual events like Yost?

[logan82]

At the start of the season I was worried Edmonds was going to write the lineup every day, replacing Kendall and the Player the Manager Fears Most, but I think Macha has actually done well with the position players. Gerut is a favorite of mine, but it's hard to argue with the way Edmonds and Hart have been playing. Kotteras is playing one game a series, Counsell is getting regular playing time, Inglett is doing well and should be hitting himself into the lineup a little more often.

 

Hard to argue more time for Inglett since it would probably be at either 2B or a corner outfield spot. Braun, Edmonds, Hart and Weeks should get almost all of that playing time. Not thrilled about Edmonds getting much time in CF with Gerut on the team but his bat may make him a better choice. With both in the outfield, I think it is bad to have Gerut in RF and Edmonds in CF.

 

Fire him or don't fire him. Not really a big deal either way since the next guy is likely to be different not better. Considering that we would likely have Svuem of Randolph as manager at least till the end of the season we might as well keep him.

[Invader3K]

I get a sense that it's 50/50 that Macha won't see June 1. That's around the time the '82 Brewers made their change (with a 22-23 record).

I guess I don't get what correlation this team has to the 1982 team.

 

I agree with the sentiment that I don't see much point in firing him before the end of the year. I'd rather not see Randolph or Sveum just handed the job. If they're going to look for a new manager, I'd rather them consider all possible candidates after the season. The only way I can see Macha getting fired mid-season is if he has obviously lost the respect of the players and they aren't listening to him anymore. I won't be that excited to see Randolph or Sveum as the interim manager, though.

[joepepsi]

It's not Macha's fault, but failing to put the team in the best position to win is. Leaving Hawkins in to face Fukudome in Chicago when he was clearly not hitting his spots was not in the team's best interest. Leaving Narveson in when he obvously couldn't manage to get a pitch down in the strikezone and had already given up a single and two walks was not in the team's best interest. Putting Gomez in the 2 spot is not in the team's best interest. If he had made better decisions in all these situations, would we be in first place? Probably not, they may not even have any more wins, but over the course of the year these poor decisions will add up. Of course the execution of the players is most responsible for our record, but can you really say Macha has maximized the Brewers' chances to win this year? That's ultimately the manager's job, and I think many of us feel Ken has not done so.

You make a good argument and I don't disagree. But the other side is that it's early in the season and there's something to be said for keeping players in during adversity to see if they can get themselves out of it. It sucked watching Hawkins melt down, but he's also being payed to contribute to the team. Even when the splits are against the pitcher, he should still be able to get the out most of the time.

 

I agree with putting the player in the best situation to be successful. But part of the first two months of the season is finding those situations and making adjustments. There is much ado about the players hating Macha. I think a player would hate a manager that pigeonholes him before the season even starts. In April giving Narveson a chance to the find the plate, Hawkins a shot at pitching out trouble, even Suppan a chance to show he's still a Veteran Gamer, in a way sends a message to the entire roster that you will play your way into or out of key situations during the course of the season.

[FIPS133]

Guys, here's my quick opinion on Macha and the organization - I believe we are in the last days of the current baseball management team. I believe Attanasio started this process with the termination of Yost in 2008. Since that point I believe Melvin and company are on an increasingly short leash. With a two year deal, Macha was basically put on notice from the get go. The whole "feel" of the operation right now is uncomfortable.

 

I believe Attanasio is close to the point of blowing up the major league operations side of things. Attanasio's comments about the salary structure earlier this year lead me to believe he is coming to grips with the fact that increasing the payroll is really not an option going forward unless he wants to "invest" in daily operations. That isn't going to happen. He truly wants to win a championship and to do so is going to require shrewd innovative management.

 

Doug Melvin is a gentleman and solid baseball man. He has presided over the Brewers and brought them to the point of being competitive and if everything breaks the right way we have a small shot at the playoffs. However I do not see a championship strategy from Melvin that would work for our franchise. The talent in the minors is OK, but not something I can point to right now and say that in 3-4 years we're going to have an amazing crop of talent.

 

Folks this is not the strategy for this team to win a championship and Macha just doesn't strike me as a key piece to retooling or winning a championship. He's gone, Melvin's gone and Attanasio truly puts his mark on the franchise.

[rluzinski]

The best championship strategy I've seen is to spend more money than the competition. Unless you are clueless (Mets, Cubs, Astros), it will get you in the playoffs pretty often.

 

We can make a midseason move from Macha to Randolf but I don't see that translating into more wins. Randolf will just make, new silly decisions. If Melvin/Macha make a midseason move, it will just be to placate the blood thirsty fans.

[sheethead]

The Brewers should innovate, and let the fans text in the manager's duties. Text in the lineups, pitching changes, defensive substitutions, pinch-hitting, etc. I'm sure the Brewers could find 1,000 or more knowledgeable fans to volunteer, and they would text in their choices, and then the team can go with the majority as their decision. How often was the audience wrong on Who Wants to be a Millionaire? Managers are useless (don't make a difference in W/L), so let's be the first to get rid of them. Have a "manager" in the dugout that just does what the voting fans tell him to do.

[topper09er]

sheethead[/b]]Managers are useless (don't make a difference in W/L), so let's be the first to get rid of them. Have a "manager" in the dugout that just does what the voting fans tell him to do.

If 1 manager doesnt make a difference in W/L then why will the consensus of 1000 managers make a difference in W/L? Clearly, managers can make a large impact on the result of the game. Or else why dont we just randomize all the possible options and then roll a dice to make the decision.

 

Baseball managers do not seem to have a large impact because there are many less times when an important choice is needed as compared to say football when every play must be called, although every pitch in baseball is like a play in football but that is usually left up to the catcher (something which I think will change in the future, maybe not for 20-30 years but eventually catchers will have a headset in the helmet like a modern quarterback and a coach will call every pitch, Bart Starr used to call offensive play in the game but that is over with).

 

Most of the time in baseball the optimal strategy is obvious so a manager is not needed; ie try to get on base or get this hitter out. There may be only 1 or less time on offense and defense each game when a manager needs to make a key decision, like which pitch to steal on or when to bring in another reliever, but already this season these situations have come up and Macha has usually made the wrong decision.

 

I personally hate Macha but he is clearly Melvin's guy, there is no chance he will be removed unless Mark A. comes in and says so.

 

 

[sheethead]

If 1 manager doesnt make a difference in W/L then why will the consensus of 1000 managers make a difference in W/L?

 

You missed my point. There is no impact on W/L, like so many here like to argue. Save the money and let the fans run the game. Also, there will be none of this loyalty to the players garbage that leaves us watching Hawkins blow two games in four days (because he's our 8th inning guy, so he deserves to finish the inning).

[topper09er]

If 1 manager doesnt make a difference in W/L then why will the consensus of 1000 managers make a difference in W/L?

 

You missed my point. There is no impact on W/L, like so many here like to argue. Save the money and let the fans run the game. Also, there will be none of this loyalty to the players garbage that leaves us watching Hawkins blow two games in four days (because he's our 8th inning guy, so he deserves to finish the inning).

It sounds you are saying that if Hawking would have been pulled in both of those games it may impacted out W/L record...so whoever decides to make that move can impact the W/L record.

 

 

[sheethead]

It sounds you are saying that if Hawking would have been pulled in both of those games it may impacted out W/L record

 

I said, "that leaves us watching Hawkins blow two games in four days." We wouldn't (likely) have watched Hawkins get knocked around. Could have been someone else losing the game, but I am sure (in at least one of the games) Hawkins would have been pulled. I will not take the stance that it would affect the W/L record, I am just saying it would be more fun, cheaper, and less annoying.

[topper09er]

sheethead[/b]]but I am sure (in at least one of the games) Hawkins would have been pulled.

We went 0-2 in those games with Hawkins taking both collars, so if we would have been pulled him and the next pitcher retired the side our record would have changed to either 1-1 or 2-0 in those games, so clearly the decision of whether or not to leave Hawkins in affected the result of the game.

[sheethead]

You could be right, but they could have went 0-2. The bottom line is this was not my point.

[BuckyBrewer61]

It sounds you are saying that if Hawking would have been pulled in both of those games it may impacted out W/L record...so whoever decides to make that move can impact the W/L record.

Spelling mistake, or Freudian slip/recommendation for Macha's replacement?

 

http://madsenblog.dk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/news-graphics-2007-_441537a.jpg

 

 

 

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Moderator note:

 

This discussion is going on in a couple of newer topics, the most recent being "anyone else seeing big changes ahead?" To avoid duplication, I'm closing this one.

 

--1992casey

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