Macha: would a mid-season change be appropriate?

[prophet]

I've never been a Ken Macha fan, even before last season. Just never liked the guy. If the Brewers are still hovering around the .500 mark mid-season, would anyone else be cool with dumping Macha halfway through the year. They way I look at it, Milwaukee has only made the playoffs three times in history, and two of those times, they changed managers before the year is out. So, they're is history of it working. What do you all think? I know there is also history of it not working, but I like to gamble.

 

 

(edit: more explicative topic title --1992)

[sheethead]

He's a lame duck, and if they struggle to the All-Star break he will likely be replaced by Randolph or Sveum. That said, this tread is doomed.

[Invader3K]

If we're simply hovering around .500 near the All-Star break, it will probably more evidence that the pitching isn't up to snuff, not that the manager is to blame. At that point, I hope Melvin will take serious stock of the situation and begin trading off some expensive pieces for high upside depth, rather than another half-hearted "go for it" approach like last season (ie. a couple minor deals, but not really addressing the true needs of the club or taking any big steps forward). I would rather just stick with Macha and dump him after the season than try to change horses mid-season again. I'm not really interested in seeing Randolph or Sveum simply handed the job. I'd rather they look at all possible candidates, which is more likely to happen after the season than during the middle of it.

[Weeks4MVP]

If we're simply hovering around .500 near the All-Star break, it will probably more evidence that the pitching isn't up to snuff, not that the manager is to blame. At that point, I hope Melvin will take serious stock of the situation and begin trading off some expensive pieces for high upside depth, rather than another half-hearted "go for it" approach like last season (ie. a couple minor deals, but not really addressing the true needs of the club or taking any big steps forward). I would rather just stick with Macha and dump him after the season than try to change horses mid-season again. I'm not really interested in seeing Randolph or Sveum simply handed the job. I'd rather they look at all possible candidates, which is more likely to happen after the season than during the middle of it.

I would have to agree with you. The Brewers are loaded with hitting depth in the minors, but lack pitching depth. You can't win many games when you consistently give up 5-8 runs a game. Even the Yankees would have trouble winning with our pitching.

[bork]

I would have to agree with you. The Brewers are loaded with hitting depth in the minors, but lack pitching depth. You can't win many games when you consistently give up 5-8 runs a game. Even the Yankees would have trouble winning with our pitching.

That's not really true. Now the Brewers minor league system has more pitching than hitting, it's just that most of it is at the lower levels.

 

[DHonks]

The Brewers played with fire and energy under Yost. He was more of a motivator. He was very structured, open with his players, and defended them to the end.

Many of the same players seem lazy and lacking desire under Macha. He treats them as assets, not players. He's not very organized, shuns his players, and calls them out publicly.

 

He has consistently not put the Brewers in chances to win by choosing to let relievers pitch based on "their track-record" rather than how they look in the immediate game. He's consistently shown a lack of baseball strategy by failing to bunt late in games when it can put a runner in scoring position for Braun and Fielder, and in 2009 it often failed as the 1-2 hitters would hit into GIDPs rather than successfully sacrificing.

 

I can't see Attanasio letting Macha keep leading this club if they're under .500 on May 1st, when they should be much better. He fired one manager for winning, now its time to fire a manager for losing. I hope Sveum takes over

[JohnBriggs12]

Remember this. Very few GM's get a 3rd managerial hire. If Macha doesn't last through the season, then Melvin's a lame duck also. You can't blame the manager when the 3 relievers that were FA last off season all carry ERA's in double digits after 2 weeks as does one of the two FA starters.. Macha at least has quickly recognized how well Villanueva is throwing the ball better than anyone and has elevated him to a key role.

 

Sooner or later though, he's got to elevate Escobar into the 2 spot in the order. He's tried everyone else there instead of the obvious.

[joepepsi]

I'd rather they look at all possible candidates, which is more likely to happen after the season than during the middle of it.

That's usually the best course of action, but it didn't work out so well a year and a half ago.

[Boisebrewer]

While I'm not as critical on Macha as some, he has made his share of "head-scratcher" moves or non-moves already this season. If he continues on his current pace, I have to believe he will not have a job by summer. With that said, What would be the problem with giving Randolph a shot? He has the major league XP and the players seem to be familiar with and like the guy. I say give Randolph a shot if things continue and go from there. The only downside to this is if the Brewers play decent after he takes over, DM will have a hard time hiring someone else after the season ends.

[jerichoholicninja]

I don't have a huge problem with the moves he makes, although he does make some dumb ones. My biggest problem is that he has no enthusiasm for anything. He looks bored in the dugout and half asleep in his press conferences. Yost looked like he was on the edge of blowing up all the time. I don't know if the manager's personality has anything to do with player performance but he doesn't seem like a guy players would be excited to play for.

[joepepsi]

If they are still lackluster approaching July 1st, I expect Macha will be fired in the standard GM-last-ditch-attempt to save his own job. Randolph would be the appropriate person to hand the job through the end of the season.

[Warning Track Power]

The Brewers played with fire and energy under Yost. He was more of a motivator. He was very structured, open with his players, and defended them to the end.

This can be a blessing and a curse...

 

I absolutely agree with the structure of Yost and the fire and energy he brought to the bench. I think as a manager in the Bigs you need to have that, especially when you have a young talented team. I miss seeing that energy on the Brewer bench.

 

However, the problem with Yost was the extent to which he defended his players. Even when Rickie or JJ were slumping, Yost would leave them in on a day-to-day. Not only that, but down the stretch in 2008 leading up to the day he was fired, he was managing like a crazed man. He looked like he had no control of himself. Macha doesn't seem so attached to slumping players.

 

After having watched Yost and Macha though, I feel Yost would be a better match as a manager for the current Brewers. Does that mean I want Yost back? No. It just means I believe he'd be a better fit than the Zombie aka Macha.

[logan82]

Doens't make sense to fire the manager since the guy hiring managers will just bring in a new guy with many of the same faults. Doesn't really matter who is doing the hiring since most GM's are just going to hire a "baseball" guy. You see many of the same mistakes made by managers across the league. The next guy always looks better until you get to see him up close.

 

Just look at the options they considered for our manager. Randolph, Brenley and Macha. Randolpf had much the same reputation as Yost. Sucked in the 2nd half and couldn't run a pen. Brenley, well just be glad we didn't get that guy. Macha was at the time the lesser of 3 evils. He was supposed to be a guy whose teams got better in the 2nd half and was good with young players. I don't think that any Brewers fans would say that about Macha now.

 

It is highly questionable that firing Yost actually made a difference in their season. It made some fans feel better but that's about it in my opinion. Almost the whole team decided not to hit for the last month. Sveum came in and small balled us to death.

[RockCoCougars]

Absolutely. He should have never been hired in the first place, Sveum should have gotten the job. As I've said here before, I take Macha's record with Oakland with a grain of salt. That was largely a product of having a Hudson-Zito-Mulder pitching staff. I could have won 90 games managing that team.

 

Say what you want about Sveum, but he got that team playing well under extreme pressure. I don't blame him for the Suppan start decision as I'm attributing that to 'upper management'. When Sveum was hired, I said make the playoffs, get the job. Randolph will get the job if Macha is fired mid-season though.

[FVBrewerFan]

I don't know. There have been very animated managers, and very stoic managers who have had a lot of success. What I do know is good managers know how to motivate individual players, and every player is different. For example, Corey Hart grew up with a very demanding father. I think you have to stay in Corey HArt's face when he lazily tracks down a fly ball...that's what he responds to. Other guys, like a Parra, need encouragement. Still others need to be left alone, and so on.

 

Now, I doubt very many of us REALLY know if Macha is liked, respected, etc. or is getting the most out of the players. We can all cite anecdotal evidence we've heard through the media, or various "inside sources." Beyond that, there is no real evidence that supports Macha being a terrific manager or horrible manager. The truth is usually somewhere in between. That's why I leave it up to the GM, it's his job to do what he thinks is best for the team. At some point, that's when the GM is questioned himslef if the managerial and player moves aren't working.

 

Bottom line, I've come to the conclusion it's pointless to figure out if a manger "should" be fired. In theory, you could have a very good manager in charge of a losing team for years. But "good" or not, there comes a point when you try something else.

[rluzinski]

As a group, we can't even decide what the qualities of a good manager is, much less whether or not Macha posesses them. I'm glad that Macha doesn't sacrifice all the time; I've seen evidence that suggests it's a strategy that's used too often. I'm glad he doesn't use the results of a couple of batter's faced to determine if his pitcher is "on" that day. I don't really see the value in showing "fire" and challenging players. I think Hart somtimes misses flyballs because he's not good at judging them, not because he hadn't been proporly motivated to burn some calories.

 

There are a lot of things Macha does that drives me crazy but I have no reason to believe that his successor won't do the same things. It's the reason why I didn't care if Yost was fired. Hired to be fired.

 

And for the record, the Brewers were projected by nearly everyone to finish with something around 81-83 wins. If the Brewers are hovering around .500 at the All Star break, what is that supposed to tell us about Macha's performance anyway?

[Fatter than Joey]

I don't like Macha at all, but I wouldn't support firing him mid-season at all, especially when I think .500 is a reasonable ceiling for this club.

 

If something happened where things totally fell apart, i'd support firing him more, but certainly not at .500....

[logan82]

I'm glad that Macha doesn't sacrifice all the time

 

except with the pitchers.

[rluzinski]

Say what you want about Sveum, but he got that team playing well under extreme pressure.

 

They finished 7-5 and lost the first playoff series, 3-1. The Brewers were 83-67 under Yost that year, so I don't exactly see what Sveum proved in his short stint as manager.

[logan82]

Say what you want about Sveum, but he got that team playing well under extreme pressure.

 

They finished 7-5 and lost the first playoff series, 3-1. The Brewers were 83-67 under Yost that year, so I don't exactly see what Sveum proved in his short stint as manager.

and 3 of those wins came against a Pittsburgh team that finished with only 62 wins.

[RockCoCougars]

Say what you want about Sveum, but he got that team playing well under extreme pressure.

 

They finished 7-5 and lost the first playoff series, 3-1. The Brewers were 83-67 under Yost that year, so I don't exactly see what Sveum proved in his short stint as manager.

Point taken, but what was their record in Yost's last 12 games? No matter who they played, they came out of their tailspin that last last week. The players seemed to respond well to Sveum. I heard more positive comments about him from players in two weeks than I've heard about Macha in two years. This isn't exactly a young team anymore, perhaps a 'player's manager' would work better.

[Invader3K]

I guess I find it kind of funny that Ned Yost is being fondly remembered by many on this site currently. I remember quite well how the man was almost universally vilified right before he was fired, and many were ecstatic to be rid of him. My opinion of him is basically unchanged: I think he did a good job taking the team to respectability, but I don't think he was going to get the Brewers to the playoffs.

 

As far as Macha, it's not like he doesn't have a track record of success. This season he will reach his 500th career win as an MLB manager (assuming he doesn't get fired prematurely as some are suggesting). Not too shabby. I'm not a huge fan of the guy, but I guess I get tired of seeing suggestions of changing managers as some sort of "cure all" for fixing a flawed team.

[logan82]

My opinion of Yost hasn't changed. I didn't think Yost should be fired because of exactly what is happening right now. The next guy isn't always better especially when you are going to hire a retread.

 

As far as Macha, it's not like he doesn't have a track record of success. This season he will reach his 500th career win as an MLB manager (assuming he doesn't get fired prematurely as some are suggesting).

 

Much like wins for pitchers, it is more a function of the team you are managing/playing for, not anything you do as a manager. Macha could be a Looper. Wins a lot of games but in reality sucks.

[monty57]

Sooner or later though, he's got to elevate Escobar into the 2 spot in the order. He's tried everyone else there instead of the obvious.

 

After Counsell's grand slam yesterday, I'd guess Escobar's PT will be cut significantly going forward. It doesn't make any sense, but Counsell was played over Gamel last year, so why not waste another prospect's cheap years? Get used to seeing a lot of Edmonds in CF as well. If it weren't for the fact that Hart plays RF about as well as Matt Stairs and that Macha refuses to play Gerut, Edmonds would probably already be our regular CF.

[Invader3K]

Then again, maybe managers just don't matter all that much. I think a mediocre manager with a great team will more than likely beat a great manager with a mediocre team more often than not.