Ramifications of DFA'ing Davis?

[NYChez]

I can't see him making another start in the near future. Could Melvin make a deal with Davis that we he would DFA him with the contingency that he accept the minor league assignment and then come back to Milwaukee in a month? Is there a union rule against that type of handshake agreement? Without that agreement, the worst case (or perhaps the best case at this point) is that another MLB team would pick him up and the Brewers would be on the hook for the remaining salary.

[PeaveyFury]

My goodness, we're not even through the 2nd week of the season.

[Ennder]

I would hope Mark would fire Melvin and/or Macha if they decided to DFA Davis since it would be such a knee jerk move to make.

 

Davis pitched a decent game today, the big inning was a bunch of groundball singles in a row and then Macha probably leaving him in too long.

[endaround]

You had a terrible to below average 1B, a below average to average 2B, a below average SS, a terrible 3B, a below average to average RF, an above average CF, and a terrible LF playing today. Singles are going to happen.

[Funketown]

Davis will be fine. He's still this team's third best starter.

[Invader3K]

DFA? Why not just kill him? It's two full weeks into the season, after all!

[1992casey]

Could Melvin make a deal with Davis that we he would DFA him with the contingency that he accept the minor league assignment and then come back to Milwaukee in a month? Is there a union rule against that type of handshake agreement?

 

The rules basically cover such a scenario. Davis would have to clear waivers to be sent down. Because of his service time, he would have the right to refuse a minor league assignment.

 

The one month thing is the only aspect that would have to be agreed upon; the Brewers would simply have to promise bring him back or release him at that point. The union wouldn't have an issue with that.

[Ennder]

You had a terrible to below average 1B, a below average to average 2B, a below average SS, a terrible 3B, a below average to average RF, an above average CF, and a terrible LF playing today. Singles are going to happen.

 

I disagree with a lot of this. Counsell is not a below average SS even at this point and McGehee is hardly a terrible 3B, I think most of this thinking comes from his play last year while hurt. It is a bit too early to judge Edmonds defense in RF but from what I've seen I'm not ready to call him below average.

[TheCrew07]

Davis pitched a decent game today, the big inning was a bunch of groundball singles in a row and then Macha probably leaving him in too long.

I'm much more willing to accept that kind of reasoning when we're talking about a prospect, like Trey Watten for example, than I am about a MLB pitcher.

 

All ground balls are not equal, and I don't buy that Davis pitched okay because he got beat on the ground. There were some very hard hit balls, more like drive lines on the infield, the hit to Prince for example was a rocket. Then a very heady bunt single when the IF was deep. Those plays aren't bad luck, they are result of the bad pitching that came before it, if there aren't runners on 1st and 2nd with nobody out, then the IF isn't deep looking for a DP ball all the way around and there's no bunt hit. At some point you're going to have to quit ignoring the context of the situation and quit making excuses for poor performance.

 

Yes pitchers might struggle in April, but call a spade a spade... It's like saying Suppan pitched okay because he only gave up 4 runs in 5 innings. Unless it's a reliever coming out of the bullpen then I don't see how not even making it to the 6th is an "okay" outing. The problem with the pen last season was that they were overworked, so far this year it's been the same scenario. The starters are not only giving up too many runs, but they aren't going deep enough into games that they can protect Macha from himself. What kind of garbage was that running oldy Hawkins out there a day after he went 40 pitches? I wouldn't do that with a reliever in his 20s, let alone a guy pushing 40.

 

The issues in the pen have been made worse by Macha's refusal to use the entire pen, some guys are getting used too infrequently to stay sharp even with all the innings out there for the bullpen, and some guys are pitching so much there's no way they'll be able to keep up the pace.

 

For the record DFAing Davis is a bad idea, it's way too early to be making those kind of decisions, but I'm not going to pretend like he's been effective thus far either. The rotation as a whole hasn't been good, Bush has been the only consistent pitcher thus far. I like Game Score because it's a quick and easy way to judge the entire start, not just runs allowed, and the game scores out of the MLB rotation have been horrible; Yo hasn't even broke 60 yet, Bush who has the lowest ERA hasn't broken 60, in fact no Brewer pitcher has broken 60 yet, Wolf's best outing was only 50, and sadly Davis hasn't even broken 40 yet on the season.

 

The pitching has been horrible, and people on the site should be able to discuss how bad the pitching has been thus far without getting nailed with small sample arguments and the like. The point of the conversation in the small sample, that's the context the argument is framed around, and three games isn't bad luck, it's a trend. When we have so many older pitchers in the rotation, most trending negatively in their careers, and they all start out pitching poorly, I think people have a right to be nervous, especially if they weren't for the signings in the first place. Some of the posts have gone too far, but there are always going to be extremist views on a site this large, but those posts don't change the fact that the pitching has stunk this season, we can only hope it will turn.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

Soft tossers often start the year slowly. He will improve to the point where he's average.

[Ennder]

The pitching has been horrible, and people on the site should be able to discuss how bad the pitching has been thus far without getting nailed with small sample arguments and the like

 

Discuss it all you want but don't expect me to sit by and applaud a thread suggesting to DFA it either. He gave up a bunch of singles in a row, every single pitcher in baseball has done it. He threw strikes today until he got deep into his pitch count and he mostly kept the ball on the ground, this outing was much more positive than the last 2 were.

 

Just seems like a lot of the people on this site are way too results oriented over small samples. I guess maybe it is just because I'm used to discussing baseball with fantasy baseball guys who tend to be a lot more patient with players since you won't ever succeed at the game if you tend to knee jerk all the time or judge people by results (ER, AVG etc) alone.

[TooLiveBrew]

Let's DFA Prince while we're at it. The guy clearly can't hit home runs.

[The Truth]

Davis has been one of the most durable pitchers in the game over several seasons. One of his greatest values is in giving you lots of innings in June-July-August and helping to keep the bullpen rested. He's probably a 4.50-4.75 ERA guy this year who will give you 30 starts... essentially he's not "in a groove" yet, not hitting his locations, that'll come

 

And if you DFA Davis, who becomes the new #4 pitcher? Suppan?

[MilwaukeeCounsell]

My post copied from the game thread

 

"People just need to realize it is a long season, and not overreact after one single game or a string of games.

 

Last year, at the end of April, Pirates had the best team ERA, with the Royals in 3rd and A's in 5th. They all ended up last in their divisions. Meanwhile, 4 playoff teams were in the bottom 7 of team ERA after April (Yankees were 2nd last)

 

Point: LOT of baseball left. "

 

Knee-jerk reactions like DFAing Davis would not be smart at all.

[PeaveyFury]

What kind of garbage was that running oldy Hawkins out there a day after he went 40 pitches? I wouldn't do that with a reliever in his 20s, let alone a guy pushing 40.

 

Hawkins pitched two days after throwing forty pitches.

[MilwaukeeCounsell]

You had a terrible to below average 1B, a below average to average 2B, a below average SS, a terrible 3B, a below average to average RF, an above average CF, and a terrible LF playing today. Singles are going to happen.

 

I disagree with a lot of this. Counsell is not a below average SS even at this point and McGehee is hardly a terrible 3B, I think most of this thinking comes from his play last year while hurt. It is a bit too early to judge Edmonds defense in RF but from what I've seen I'm not ready to call him below average.

Agreed. Looking at UZR/150, Counsell is still above average and has been his whole career. Prince showed improvement last year but it remains to be seen if that was just a lucky year. Still too early to decide on McGehee but I think he is around average to slightly below average. And Rickie has shown overall improvement over the last few years, hopefully he can stay healthy.

[bigredrobbo]

Looks like Chicken Little season started early this year...

[bklynbrewcrew]

I dont believe we should DFA Davis at this point but I also think its ridiculous to say that he pitched well today. This rotation has been absolutely awful so far and while I think it wont stay this bad i do not think it will be even close to average. I hated the signing of Davis at the time and I hate it even more now.

[TooLiveBrew]

I don't see where anyone said he pitched well today

[WV Brew]

He didn't throw 100+ pitches in less than 5 innings with a 10 run lead because of bad fielding. Give me a break. It's a wonder they make any plays behind this guy. He will not throw strikes. It's why I wanted him gone in the first place. Fastball topping out at about 83 today. I think he's cooked. Not saying he should be DFA'd just yet. The mistake was made, let's not compound it with foolish moves.

[Ennder]

I don't see where anyone said he pitched well today

 

I said he was decent which is what I think he was referring to. I don't see how anyone had complaints with Davis until the 5th inning(other than throwing too many pitches which is normal), he gave up a bunch of singles in the 5th and Macha left him out there longer than he should have. He threw 107 pitches of which 65 were strikes and his ratio was much better than that before the 5th inning. He had way more balls hit on the ground than in the air and he struck out 5 compared to only 1 walk. The end results were pretty ugly because of all the singles but he really didn't throw the ball that badly. Certainly better than the last 2 outings which this one is being compared to.

[MilwaukeeCounsell]

Davis has always been a slow starter. While not this bad, his career April ERA is 5.00

 

http://www.aww-kittah-aww.com/up/files/2751/Davis.PNG

 

I'd rather use a career set of numbers than 3 games to make analysis about DD. Give it some time.

[Funketown]

He didn't throw 100+ pitches in less than 5 innings with a 10 run lead because of bad fielding. Give me a break. It's a wonder they make any plays behind this guy. He will not throw strikes. It's why I wanted him gone in the first place. Fastball topping out at about 83 today. I think he's cooked. Not saying he should be DFA'd just yet. The mistake was made, let's not compound it with foolish moves.

What reason do we have to believe he is cooked? Sure, he's struggled out of the gate, but I'm sure you can find quite a few stretches of three consecutive starts in his career that were far worse than these three. There's no reason to believe that over the last winter Doug Davis' pitching ability became significantly worse. With the D-Backs, Davis' fastball had average velocities of 84.1, 84.5, and 85.1 in 2007, 2008, and 2009, respectively. Thus far this year, it's averaging 84.0, without this game.

 

Again, Davis has made a pretty good career for himself despite being a soft-tosser. Just give him some time.

[MilwaukeeCounsell]

His ERA after 3 games last year was 2.57, but I'm guessing no one was throwing him into the Cy Young consideration.

[WisconsinSportsRule]

It looks like there's two lines of thinking here...

 

-People discussing how horrible the pitching has been

 

-People disregarding the results because it's early

 

Hopefully there's a medium here. I'd take average pitching, but that's probably not realistic.