Brendan Katin

[logan82]

Edmonds really can't play CF though and he isn't really hitting all that well either. The season has already taken it's toll on his ancient body.

 

Maybe he is improving his OBP but I doubt it. It looks more like a one year fluke at this point. Katin is 27 and in his third year of AAA. He should be hitting well. His minor league OBP's are really not impressive at all.

[LouisEly]

Katin's OPS w/runners on - 1.216; w/runners in scoring position - 1.154

 

I seem to recall it being over or darned near 1.000 in both categories last year.

 

For this reason alone he should be given a shot, as this is something that is sorely needed on the major league club.

[homer]

Katin has a career .876 OPS with runners in scoring position.

[logan82]

It makes almost no sense to judge a player on situational stats. You are basically finding stats that support your argument instead of looking at a player at least somewhat objectively.

[LouisEly]

So if you are considering a player as a bench player/pinch hitter, it would make no sense to look at his stats as a pinch hitter or with runners on base/in scoring position, the situations that person would predominantly be in?

 

Logan, I've already looked at him somewhat objectively. Some people choose to just shout, "MLE!! MLE!!!", but as we've seen with McGehee so far MLE's aren't exactly gospel. He's gotten his OBP up to over .380, he's athletic enough to have 10 total triples over 2008 and 2009 - only one less than Escobar over those two years - and he has a plus arm. These are just additional stats to support the argument.

 

It should partially have been in blue as it is just as much a function of my frustration with the ML club's poor performance with runners on base & in scoring position.

[TooLiveBrew]

So if you are considering a player as a bench player/pinch hitter, it would make no sense to look at his stats as a pinch hitter or with runners on base/in scoring position, the situations that person would predominantly be in?

 

Yes, because they are tiny samples & fluctuate a lot. What Katin has done this season w/RISP &/or men on base has little or nothing to do with what he will do in the future. I agree with you that Katin would probably be a solid bench option for the Brewers, but not because of a tiny sample of RISP & men on base PAs.

[logan82]

Logan, I've already looked at him somewhat objectively. Some people

choose to just shout, "MLE!! MLE!!!", but as we've seen with McGehee so

far MLE's aren't exactly gospel.

 

Nobody says they are gospel. They are just a best guess and in my opinion usually a little low. That said, Katin has some pretty ugly OBP's outside of this year if you even take only a little bit off for going up a level. That by itself is enough for me to question bringing him up.

 

He's gotten his OBP up to over .380,

he's athletic enough to have 10 total triples over 2008 and 2009 - only

one less than Escobar over those two years - and he has a plus arm.

These are just additional stats to support the argument.

 

For half a season he has had a very good OBP. That is still a very small sample especially considering it is his third go around in AAA. It isn't like he is a 23 year old in his first year of AAA following up a good year in AA. It looks like he has been a full time player. All players typically hit worse as part time players. He would also be moving up a level. To think he would contribute much of anything this year seems really optimistic to me. Triples have more to do with outfielders misplaying balls than actual talent. Oveall I see a much stronger argument against him being successful than for. I don't think he would be better than either Edmonds or Gerut so as long as we have those 2 guys I really see no place for Katin.

[danzig6767]

Edmonds really can't play CF though and he isn't really hitting all that well either. The season has already taken it's toll on his ancient body.

Yea well i see no evidence that Macha has much confidence in Gerut as a player to use him over Edmonds when it comes to a RH on the mound. So Gerut gets left being just yet another LH bat on the bench and the LH pinch hit option that Macha has the least confidence in. Unless it's early in a game where a starting pitcher gets yanked or the game is a blowout, Macha will almost always use Counsell or Inglett to bat vs a RH pitcher before he'll use Gerut. Until/if an injury hits Edmonds which no question is possible, Gerut will largely have no role on this team except sunflower seed eater so long as Macha remains the manager.

[monty57]

Is Gerut still on the team? The last I heard he had some kind of bruise in his foot and I haven't seen any more of him for about two months. It seems he has one of those "injuries" that seem to keep unperforming players on the DL for quite a while. Since Hart started playing everyday, we've basically been playing with 4 OF (3 when Edmonds is injured), using Inglett as a kind of emergency 5th OF. So, really, the Katin vs. Gerut debate is being overdone. It's really a matter of whether Katin, or anyone else, will change our GM & manager's love affair with a 13 man pitching staff.

 

Before the season, I lobbied for a Gerut/Hart platoon in RF, as I thought one of them could have a breakout season, and I thought it was just as likely to be Gerut as it was Hart. Once Edmonds was signed, it was pretty much a death warrent on Gerut getting any PT, and his awful start this year has put him in a situation that he will not be a part of the future of the team. If he were to go to a team where he could start every day, it is possible he could regain his form, as he seemed to be much better when given everyday playing time than he was off the bench.

 

Since this is a thread about Katin, I'll just say that it seems Melvin has something against him, and I'd guess it's his low walk rate. I really can't think of any other reason he wasn't called up last September. Katin does make a lot of sense as a RH batter off the bench and a backup corner OF (where he won't see much PT with Braun & Hart around), but he won't get a shot until we decide to drop a pitcher off the MLB team. With Coffey back, Davis back soon and Hawkins now throwing off a mound, I doubt that will happen any time soon. Katin isn't going to force Braddock or Axford to the minors, and Melvin probably won't DFA someone to get Katin to the majors. My guess is that's why Gerut's "foot injury" has lasted as long as it has and will probably last until the end of the season unless an OF gets traded or hurt.

 

Katin reminds me of Heether... a guy at AAA who does everything to show that he is worthy of a spot on the 25-man, but for some reason doesn't get it with the Brewers. Macha/Melvin don't like rookies in reserve roles, so we'll continually pay $1MM+ to fill these spots while players like Heether and Katin rot away in AAA until they finally get their shot elsewhere.

[endaround]

Katin isn't on the 40-man. No reason to move things around to put him on it for a September call up. He just isn't that good.

[HiAndTight]

For half a season he has had a very good OBP. That is still a very small sample especially considering it is his third go around in AAA. It isn't like he is a 23 year old in his first year of AAA following up a good year in AA. It looks like he has been a full time player. All players typically hit worse as part time players. He would also be moving up a level. To think he would contribute much of anything this year seems really optimistic to me. Triples have more to do with outfielders misplaying balls than actual talent. Oveall I see a much stronger argument against him being successful than for. I don't think he would be better than either Edmonds or Gerut so as long as we have those 2 guys I really see no place for Katin.

You DO realize we're talking about exchanging Katin for Gerut, right? So questioning how MUCH he would contribute when Gerut has contributed nothing at all doesn't really strengthen the case for Gerut right now.

 

As for Triples having more to do with bad plays by OF'ers, that's such a wildly unsubstantiated claim, I'm at a bit of a loss how to respond to it. It's certainly not like the leader board every year for triples is completely different. Curtis Granderson, Jose Reyes, Carlos Gomez, these aren't players who jsut happen to hit the ball at poor defenders.

 

In any event, the point was that he's got enough speed and athletic ability to rack up triples, not the validity of triples in and of themselves, a debate I don't even know how you would begin to engage in.

 

Anyway, I just don't know how god awful Gerut has to be before some will consider that maybe this RH'ed power bat who's playing well, a RH'ed power bat our bench is sorely lacking by the way, may have some value over him.

 

With all the talk about sample sizes..and rightfully so, Gerut's small little samplings here and there are held up as gospel regardless of just how terrible he gets. Doesn't make sense to me.

[TooLiveBrew]

I think the issue I have is your hyperbole on Gerut. I can agree with you that perhaps Katin would be a better fit as the team's currently constructed. I can't agree with calling Gerut "terrible" and "god awful". It's just not true.

[logan82]

You DO realize we're talking about exchanging Katin for Gerut, right? So questioning how MUCH he would contribute when Gerut has contributed nothing at all doesn't really strengthen the case for Gerut right now.

 

Of course Gerut hasn't contributed much. He is on the DL and the manager doesn't seem to like Gerut much. Assuming both were healthy, Gerut is a better fit with the MLB club.

 

As for Triples having more to do with bad plays by OF'ers, that's such a wildly unsubstantiated claim, I'm at a bit of a loss how to respond to it. It's certainly not like the leader board every year for triples is completely different. Curtis Granderson, Jose Reyes, Carlos Gomez, these aren't players who jsut happen to hit the ball at poor defenders.

 

Of course you need a little speed to get a triple but more often than not it also requires a ball to bounce off the wall funny to get a triple. Carlos Gomez, arguably the fastest guy on our team, has 4 this year. Inglett a backup player with a gimpy ankle for much of the last month+ has 3. Triples are a fluky counting stat. I assume since he has only 20 SB in his MiLB career his triples are more a function of hitting the ball hard into corners and misplays by outfielders(since almost nothing is an error for an outfielder) than him being an athletic guy. In a similar number of games Gamel has almost double that. Nevermind, I looked it up and Katin has only 14 triples over his MiLB career. Not an impressive number. Not sure how you can claim he would rack up the triples.

[LouisEly]

Inglett a backup player with a gimpy ankle for much of the last month+ has 3.

 

You do realize that Inglett got those before he hurt his ankle, right?

 

Come on Logan, you have to have athletic ability and speed to hit triples. I don't think it's any coincidence that in 3100 plate appearances Fielder has 8 career triples (and he's more athletic than people give him credit for) and in 2400 plate appearances Weeks has 22, in 1300 PA's Gomez has 14, in 4000 PAs Zaun has 9, and in 750 PAs McGehee has one. There's a direct correlation there.

[logan82]

You do realize that Inglett got those before he hurt his ankle, right?

 

He got his 3rd just last week. So yes you are right, he got 2 before hurting his ankle and one after.

 

I don't think it's any coincidence that in 3100 plate appearances Fielder has 8 career triples (and he's more athletic than people give him credit for) and in 2400 plate appearances Weeks has 22, in 1300 PA's Gomez has 14, in 4000 PAs Zaun has 9, and in 750 PAs McGehee has one. There's a direct correlation there.

 

There is some correlation, really slow guys rarely get them, but in most cases when there is a triple, an outfielder played the ball wrong off the wall. 14 triples isn't exactly very many either. I am not really opposed to Katin on the MLB roster I just see no reason for him to be there while we have Gerut and Edmonds and nobody has presented any compelling reasons he even deserves a spot.

[greeg35]

Katin's OPS is 1.005 right now.

I hope he gets a chance somewhere someday and I think he'll make good when he does. I would prefer it was with Milwaukee; but we seem too hung up in the Boggs vs Almonte debate to notice him.

[Mass Haas]

Katin's knees are limiting his ability to contribute on an everyday basis, and that may be the issue all season long. It's too bad, although I'm hoping for a sneak on to the 40-man roster on 9/1 and a power bat on the September bench for a playoff push.

[monty57]

I think Katin's name somehow gets blocked by a filter on Melvin's computer. Otherwise, I don't really see a reason why he hasn't gotten any consideration while we've been in need of a RH bat on the bench for two seasons.

[TooLiveBrew]

By all accounts, Katin is a solid defender. There's no way he's not at least as good overall as Erick Almonte, but RRR apparently makes his decisions based on who impressed him in 2011 ST. Katin should absolutely be the RH backup OF at this point, he's in all likelihood a nice upgrade over Almonte.

[battlekow]

Katin's chronic knee problem makes it unlikely that he'd be useful to the Brewers right now regardless of their opinion of him otherwise.

[LouisEly]

Katin wouldn't be starting though over Braun or Hart, so his knees wouldn't really be an issue unless one of them got hurt and Katin had to play every day, right? I would think that for the limited playing time he would get in the bench role he would have plenty of time to rest his knees. In fact, wouldn't that be better for his knees than playing every day in Nashville?

[jdoz]

What a joke that Katin hasn't gotten a shot. After this year, when his contract is up, he can sign with a team that'll actually may good use of him and bring him to hit bombs off the bench. Until then I guess we'll just have to settle for watching him lead the pacific league in ops again.

[yoshii8]

I do wish he would've gotten a shot over Mike Rivera. The must really think that he can't hit mlb pitching.

[brewmann04]

I wish he would have gotten called up with inter league going to happen soon.

[greeg35]

The must really think that he can't hit mlb pitching

I hope they don't rely too much on Don Money's reports on this kind of thing because, let me guess, its negative...