Brendan Katin

[jdoz]

Another long ball for Katin tonight. In the top 5 in the Pacific league for OPS and slugging, just saying.

[Tedaldtada]

If he can't even get a Sept. cup of coffee, then I feel super bad for the guy. His production will speak loudest, so I hope he keeps it up.

[DHonks]

Yost was high on his power in spring training games, but Macha probably doesn't know he exists

[jjfanec]

I think people are over-valuing Katin quite a bit. He is still striking out 1/3 of the time. Last year he started out hot but ended up with an OPS at .800 which is nice but nothing special. He has a really nice OPS right now, but I would like to see the guy have a solid full-season before handing him a corner OF spot

[LouisEly]

We're not handing him the starting job - he might be a good RH bat off the bench. Good athlete, lots of triples too, was voted best OF arm in their organization a couple years ago. Could be a decent cheap 4th OF who could platoon with a LH bat if they trade Hart.

[monty57]

I feel bad for Katin. If he was around 20-30 years ago, he'd be a major leaguer in the Rob Deer mode. Never a superstar, but someone the fans love to watch. In today's game, if you don't take walks, you don't play in the majors unless you're from the Dominican Republic.

[jdoz]

...and he continues to rake and even draw walks at a decent rate.

[TheCrew07]

I'm not sure "rake" would be the description I would use, he's certainly hitting for power though.

[dadofandrew]

His major league equivalent in his AAA career is .273/.434, which obviously will not cut it as a corner OF. His ceiling remains very low, maybe as a platoon guy at best.

[danzig6767]

I feel bad for Katin. If he was around 20-30 years ago, he'd be a major leaguer in the Rob Deer mode. Never a superstar, but someone the fans love to watch. In today's game, if you don't take walks, you don't play in the majors unless you're from the Dominican Republic.

Rob Deer isn't a good hitter to use in the argument you are making. Deer did hit a lot of home runs and struck out a ton, but he also walked quite a bit. Deer was much more like Branyan than he is like Katin.

 

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/D/Rob-Deer.shtml

[jdoz]

http://www.baseball-refer...layers/r/reynoma01.shtml

 

By the way, Katin is 2/4 with 2 RBI's and a walk tonight.

 

Call the kid up, big bat off the bench, good arm, low risk move.

[dadofandrew]

Reynolds had a 913 OPS in AA as a 22/23 year-old. Katin had a 800 OPS in AA as a 23/24 year-old. There is no comparison. His MLE's speak for themselves.

[HiAndTight]

Following this Brewers-Cubs game, man, how badly do this RF squad have to play to warrant a shot?? Gerut 0/3 today with a .143 avg. so far.

 

Roster decisions should be made on talent, not results from a tiny handful of PAs. Gerut has posted a career OPS v. RHP over .800 & is a solid defender. I'm guessing Katin could do neither. There are a lot of guys in AAA that hit the pitching there well, and just aren't that special when it comes to MLB. Katin could be a bench bat to face LHP, but I seriously doubt he would be a positive in any bigger role than that.

Jody Gerut had a decent year in 2008 in which he started 61 games vs RH'ers. 61 games.

 

That's his ONLY decent year dating back to his rookie year of 2003. Who the hell does this guy have naked pictures of to retain SO much support on this boards? He's absolutely AWFUL. You talk about sample sizes, this guy even in his ONE year started well under 100 games.

 

And he's 32 years old. And why can't Katin be a decent defender? With a very strong arm, and a guy who is generally regarded as a great athlete.

 

I don't have much faith in Katin, but I'm absolutely baffled as to why Gerut's got this support on this board. There's just nothing there. No reason at all. He's a 32 year old injury prone player who in the last 7 years has one good stretch in which he got about 80 starts and put up a solid offensive line. So half a good season...

[dadofandrew]

Gerut's a decent stopgap or bench guy, and he can play CF. Katin hasn't proven he can do anything except hit AAA arms in his 2nd and 3rd years at that level. Gerut is not a star, but he is what he is. No one knows what level Katin will peak at, but he's unlikely to ever have even a Gerut-like career.

[jjfanec]

http://www.baseball-refer...layers/r/reynoma01.shtml

 

By the way, Katin is 2/4 with 2 RBI's and a walk tonight.

 

Call the kid up, big bat off the bench, good arm, low risk move.

Is Katin your relative or something? He is having a nice start to the year, but I dont know why we would be in a rush to bring him up. He has had decent OPS in AAA the past two seasons so lets see if he can continue to hit over the next couple months. This is only 30 games. Last year after starting out hot he finished poorly. Let him finish this season and either be a September call up, or try to earn a backup spot in Spring Training

[HiAndTight]

http://www.baseball-refer...layers/r/reynoma01.shtml

 

By the way, Katin is 2/4 with 2 RBI's and a walk tonight.

 

Call the kid up, big bat off the bench, good arm, low risk move.

Is Katin your relative or something? He is having a nice start to the year, but I dont know why we would be in a rush to bring him up. He has had decent OPS in AAA the past two seasons so lets see if he can continue to hit over the next couple months. This is only 30 games. Last year after starting out hot he finished poorly. Let him finish this season and either be a September call up, or try to earn a backup spot in Spring Training

That's funny, I've often wondered if many on this board were related to Jody Gerut. Never before have I seen such a group of guys concerned with sample sizes(and 100 pct rightfully so), and then cite about 71 games worth of starts(in Gerut's ''great'' 2008 season) and stats from here and there over a 8 year career in which a guy has a TOTAL of 417 starts, to argue that this player is such a key cog and that we can't possibly bring up a guy who's hitting for a good deal of power, plays good defense and has a cannon for an arm.

 

 

Truth is, Katain likely has no future, but who knows, perhaps he can become a "Nick Stavinoah" or however you spell it and he can provide a nice power stick off the bench, a possible late inning replacement for Corey or Braun.

 

But there's SOME value there potentially as opposed to knowing exactly what Gerut gives you which is almost nothing.

[TooLiveBrew]

I really wasn't going to respond to the Gerut thing since it was so old relative to this discussion, but here goes. OPS v. RHP year by year

 

2003: .923 (379 PA)

2004: .787 (373) ** tore his ACL

2005: .749 (159)

2008: .826 (288)

2009: .660 (266)

 

I left out '06 & '07 because he didn't play in the bigs. I left out '10 because it's all of 53 PA (iirc). That's a career line against righties of .274/.334/.456/.790 (1,518 PA) for a guy that can help you on defense in CF. So, no, no one I've seen is citing one season. Besides, if anyone would do that, they'd cite '03.

 

 

we can't possibly bring up a guy who's hitting for a good deal of power, plays good defense and has a cannon for an arm.

 

I haven't seen Katin play in person. I've read a lot about his good power, and strong arm, but I've heard nothing about whether or not he plays good defense in right. Have you seen him play, or have you just read more about him than me? Honest question; not baiting you. I doubt he could handle CF.

[jjfanec]

That's funny, I've often wondered if many on this board were related to Jody Gerut. Never before have I seen such a group of guys concerned with sample sizes(and 100 pct rightfully so), and then cite about 71 games worth of starts(in Gerut's ''great'' 2008 season) and stats from here and there over a 8 year career in which a guy has a TOTAL of 417 starts, to argue that this player is such a key cog and that we can't possibly bring up a guy who's hitting for a good deal of power, plays good defense and has a cannon for an arm.

 

 

Truth is, Katain likely has no future, but who knows, perhaps he can become a "Nick Stavinoah" or however you spell it and he can provide a nice power stick off the bench, a possible late inning replacement for Corey or Braun.

 

But there's SOME value there potentially as opposed to knowing exactly what Gerut gives you which is almost nothing.

Not going to begin to get into the Gerut debate but I think Katin would be better served trying to put together a full good year in the minors than he would by coming up and sitting the bench. Why the rush to bring him up? Also why would he be a late inning replacement for Hart or Braun? You do not pull good to great hitters for a better fielder.

[HiAndTight]

Not going to begin to get into the Gerut debate but I think Katin would be better served trying to put together a full good year in the minors than he would by coming up and sitting the bench. Why the rush to bring him up? Also why would he be a late inning replacement for Hart or Braun? You do not pull good to great hitters for a better fielder.

Actually, teams often do. If you're up late in a game, it's pretty common to substitute out a poor fielder for a much better one, even if the hitter being taken out is good/great offensive player. In fact, Bruan was routinely replaced late in games when he first came up for a superior defensive player, and LaRussa does this fairly often.

 

And there is no "rush" to bring him up. I think if this conversation was about Lawrie, that comment would be spot on. Even about Cain at 24 that comment would be spot on. Plus a HUGE difference in each player is that they're both guys you'd very much like to see develop into key cogs moving forward. Core pieces.

 

Katin is a guy who's likely to be a career bench player, maybe get some platoon starts. So bringing him up to see if he can succeed in such a role at this point isn't the least bit out of line.

[HiAndTight]

TooLiveBrew]I really wasn't going to respond to the Gerut thing since it was so old relative to this discussion, but here goes. OPS v. RHP year by year

 

2003: .923 (379 PA)

2004: .787 (373) ** tore his ACL

2005: .749 (159)

2008: .826 (288)

2009: .660 (266)

 

I left out '06 & '07 because he didn't play in the bigs. I left out '10 because it's all of 53 PA (iirc). That's a career line against righties of .274/.334/.456/.790 (1,518 PA) for a guy that can help you on defense in CF. So, no, no one I've seen is citing one season. Besides, if anyone would do that, they'd cite '03.

 

 

we can't possibly bring up a guy who's hitting for a good deal of power, plays good defense and has a cannon for an arm.

 

I haven't seen Katin play in person. I've read a lot about his good power, and strong arm, but I've heard nothing about whether or not he plays good defense in right. Have you seen him play, or have you just read more about him than me? Honest question; not baiting you. I doubt he could handle CF.

I really wasn't going to respond to the Gerut thing since it was so old

relative to this discussion, but here goes. OPS v. RHP year by year

2003: .923 (379 PA)

2004: .787 (373) ** tore his ACL

2005: .749 (159)

2008: .826 (288)

2009: .660 (266)

 

 

This is getting a bit frustrating as I've repeatedly tried to post this only to have accidentally hit the "back" on my mouse button and lost my posts.

 

In any event, I think this is flawed right from the beginning. The whole debate is about Gerut and how he helps our team or how he fits into our team right now, and in the future. And as such, I see very, very little value in looking at his age 25 season when he was healthy and put up a career year. It doesn't really have anything to do with this Jody Gerut.

 

2003-

As I said, a good solid season, but it was his career year.

He put up a line of .279/.336/.494 for an .830 OPS over that year. He hit 22/75 had 66 R 33 2B and 2 3B.

From 2005-2010, even including his big year, his TOTALS are .257/.313/.415 with 26/100 108 R 43 2B and 6 3B.

So while it was a good year, it was his career year when he was healthy.

 

2004-Again, a solid year.

Posted a line of; .271/.338/.449 with 11 Hr's and an OPS+ of 97.

Not a real strong season.

 

2005-Not a very good year.

Missed most of the year, hit 1 single HR, and put up a line of .284/.358/.390 in about 141 AB's.

 

2006

Missed entire season

2007

Missed entire season

 

2008-This is THE year that everyone points to(I really disagree with your assessment that this is NOT in fact the season everyone uses. It certainly is, or at least, it's certainly the only one that holds any weight. I'm not going to sign a FA who's been extremely injury prone because of a good rookie year 8 seasons ago.

 

Started 61 games and put up a line of; .293/.354/.471 for an .826 OPS. Again, this was in limited time as he was not a regular player.

He DID have a tOPS+ of 97 that year vs RH'ers, so he was even below league average in his ONE big season.

 

2009-He was downright awful. No arguing that.

.235/.286/.374 for a .660 OPS for a guy who played CF/RF for us last year. That's just ugly.

 

2010-I will include these numbers as he's further along than he was in the 2005 season that you included.

His line so far this year-.137/.170/.275 for a .444 OPS in 53 PA's with 2 HR's 4 2B and 1 3B, and 1 HR, 1 2B and 1 3B came IN ONE GAME!!!!

 

 

His aggregate numbers over the last FIVE and a half YEARS are as follows;

In 919 PA's, he has a line of .257/.313/.415 with a .729 OPS, an OPS+ of 98.

 

This of course includes his 2008 numbers that HEAVILY skew the overall numbers as he posted a .120 OPS+ in those years.

 

 

I don't know how anyone can come to any conclusion that Jody Gerut is anything but a bad player at this point, and at 32 years of age and a LH'ed heavy bench, I think it's fairly obvious that a guy who's performing well in AAA should at LEAST be given a chance to see if he can enjoy any modicum of success at the big league level that has eluded Gerut for the most part since his rookie year of 2003.

 

 

 

I left out '06 & '07 because he didn't play in the bigs. I left out

'10 because it's all of 53 PA (iirc). That's a career line against

righties of .274/.334/.456/.790 (1,518 PA) for a guy that can help you

on defense in CF. So, no, no one I've seen is citing one season.

Besides, if anyone would do that, they'd cite '03.

I already addressed these points for the most part, but suffice to say I disagree.

 

Again, I have seen people cite the '08 season. We're simply too far removed from the '03 season, his career year as a rookie, and he's suffered FAR too many injuries for there to be any value taken in that.

And I don't know that Gerut can "help" your Defense in CF other than he can play a passable CF for short stretches if you're in a pinch. His knee injuries have zapped him of a lot of his speed and range.

 

You have a passable line using a couple of sporadic seasons sprinkled in skewing the overall numbers from LH'ed hitter playing primarily a Corner OF position on a team that is flush with LH'ed bench options and could definitely use a RH'ed power option who can play in the corners.

 

 

 

I haven't seen Katin play in person. I've read a lot about his good

power, and strong arm, but I've heard nothing about whether or not he

plays good defense in right. Have you seen him play, or have you just

read more about him than me? Honest question; not baiting you. I doubt

he could handle CF.

 

I have seen Katin play, though I don't feel qualified after watching just a two game set to give a informed assessment about his defensive ability. He's a very smooth looking athlete, looks more "athletic and "smoother" than Braun, and he did get a chance on cork a couple throws and he has a LASER.

 

But again, two games, two years ago? You're talking to someone pretty ignorant about his overall defensive prowess out there.

 

On a bit of a related note, I actually believe Braun would be better served playing CF. I've said this before from my playing days and I have some stars like Robin Yount and Andruw Jones who have stated the same thing, but basically if you're athletic enough, CF is easier to play than LF or RF. If you're Adam Dunn, obviously that's not the case. But it's easier to get a read on the ball to cF. Down the line you're dealing with balls that are slicing away from you. In CF it's easier to just get a good old fashion read.

 

 

That's not to say Katin could play there, just that he looked very athletic when I saw him and the reports on his athletic ability have been exceptional.

[TooLiveBrew]

It's not that I disagree with you that Katin might be a better fit right now than Gerut. It's that your claims about Gerut being so overhyped & useless that I take issue with. Not going to respond more in the thread... moving to PM.

[HiAndTight]

It's not that I disagree with you that Katin might be a better fit right now than Gerut. It's that your claims about Gerut being so overhyped & useless that I take issue with. Not going to respond more in the thread... moving to PM.

"Useless" may be overstating it. I don't believe him to be as bad as his line this year shows, but I also have just been dumbfounded by the support he has garnered on this board. That's all.

 

The "useless" part comes more from his role on this team, being a LH'ed bat which we are flush with, and if we should find ourselves in a position to need another aside from Kottaras(who's not likely to get in very often off the bench), Counsell, Inglett, and Edmonds, we have Stern in AAA, and then Gamel(though he'd BETTER not be used as a bench bat again unless it's in the playoffs this year).

 

 

Though I firmly stand by my over-hyped comments. Not to belabor the point, but again, I see a guy who's had one good 61 game stretch since his rookie year, before be suffered career threatening injuries to his knees and missed two full years as the extent of his success in the past 7 seasons.

[jjfanec]

jjfanec wrote:

Not going to begin to get into the Gerut debate but I think Katin would be better served trying to put together a full good year in the minors than he would by coming up and sitting the bench. Why the rush to bring him up? Also why would he be a late inning replacement for Hart or Braun? You do not pull good to great hitters for a better fielder.

Actually, teams often do. If you're up late in a game, it's pretty common to substitute out a poor fielder for a much better one, even if the hitter being taken out is good/great offensive player. In fact, Bruan was routinely replaced late in games when he first came up for a superior defensive player, and LaRussa does this fairly often.

 

And there is no "rush" to bring him up. I think if this conversation was about Lawrie, that comment would be spot on. Even about Cain at 24 that comment would be spot on. Plus a HUGE difference in each player is that they're both guys you'd very much like to see develop into key cogs moving forward. Core pieces.

 

Katin is a guy who's likely to be a career bench player, maybe get some platoon starts. So bringing him up to see if he can succeed in such a role at this point isn't the least bit out of line.

Braun got replaced because he was a butcher at third. He is not good in left but he is nowhere near as bad as he was at 3rd. If this was a common practice Prince should never be out in the field late in games because he is terrible at first. I have never seen good hitters pulled late in games unless they are rookies or terrible in the field. The odds that Braun would cost a run in the field are much less likely than him getting a chance to hit in the 9th or in extra innings.

 

Katin has had a hot start. But he has never proved it over a season. He pretty much had the exact same start last year and ended with an OPS around 800. I would like to see Katin prove that he can keep walking at a nice rate, so that next year he could be in a position help this team when we need it. I do not get the point in taking a hot hitter and bringing him up for at most 5 at bats a week. It is too hard for a young guy to stay hot doing that. We could bring him up but I think for his development as a player it would be better to keep him down because he is seeing improvement on the stuff that kept him from being a solid prospect.

[logan82]

Why would we want to replace a guy with a .325/.433/.758 MLB line with a guy who has a .318/.528/.846 career AAA line especially when one can play all the outfield spots and the other can't. What would that AAA OBP translate to? Something below .300 is my guess. No thanks. Looks like a minor league soldier or MLB backup if you can't find a cheap FA.

[LouisEly]

As for Gerut and his ability to play CF and/or all three positions, the Brewers already have Gomez and Edmonds to play CF. What do they need a third guy to play CF for? The issue is more about redundancy of Gerut (already have a bench full of LH hitters and two guys who can play CF), and how Katin would reduce that redundancy by adding a RH power bat off the bench.

 

That, and Katin is healthy. And he's gotten his OBP up to .379, so maybe he is making strides trying to improve his OBP to become a more viable ML player.