Let's talk Hoffman

[PeaveyFury]

He hasn't been able to throw his change up for strikes.

 

How can you tell? He mystifyingly only threw one last night. They're not even trying for some reason.

[RyDogg66]

I dont think people are overreacting. We have a 42 year old closer who throws an 85 mph fastball and he has given up 3 HRs in his last 2 innings pitched to blow 2 saves. That seems a little concerning, at least enough to warrant a thread about what might be the problem.

[Ennder]

OF course people are overreacting, but they always do. I don't see how anyone can be concerned by the HR he gave up to shapinova considering how he hit it. Giving up back to back HR to pujols/Holliday doesn't mean someone is done. I wouldn't be worried about a rookie after that sequence, why on earth would I be worried about Hoffman. I don't worry about anything in April pretty much, it is more or less a throwaway month.

[sheethead]

He gave up a joke of a HR to a crappy player and then HR to 2 of the better hitters in the NL. NOt worried at all at this point.

This is what I am thinking. I will add that Hoffman will do fine against moderate hitters, but he is very susceptible against elite hitters in the league (as most pitchers are). I wouldn't mind seeing a situational closer go against elite hitters at some point this season, someone who can throw some gas (Hawkins, Braddock, etc.) to give the elite hitters a bit more of a challenge.

[Invader3K]

I think he's going to be fine. One thing to remember is that he didn't even pitch most of April last year. The off-season rust could still be coming off a bit (given he barely pitched during spring training). No reason to panic yet.

[FVBrewerFan]

Honestly, I didn't see any comments in this thread that could be labeld "overreacting." I do think many people are concerned, and I don't think that's unreasonable. I was concerned about Hoffman before the season even started, fearing the Brewers went to the well once too often.

 

Let's remember he gave up a run vs the Rockies as well, even though he got the save. But that's 4 outings, giving up runs in 3 of them. At his age, I don't think it's unreasonable to have real concerns. With his stuff, he has to really be on every time he takes the mound. It's not like a guy who throws 95-96 with movement. Then you can make a mistake and get away with it.

 

It doesn't really matter if Hoffman has lost a tick on his fastball. The problem has been location. Both HR yesterday were fastballs down the middle. Hoffman absolutely needs to locate his fastball or he's in big trouble.

[theavrock]

Not worried at all. He isn't using his changeup right now. Fastaball hasn't lost any zip. It would be one thing if his fastball was down 3-4 MPH. That's not the case. As soon as he starts having success with his changeup I expect him to have the same sort of success that we have known to expect.

As others have mentioned he gave up a HR to a dude on his knees (tip your cap) and two to two of the best hitters in the game. This is not the time to talk about Hoffman going to the DL or making much of anything out of two BS.

It's always funny when things like this pop up. No one has started a Casey Mcgehee is avoiding the sophomore slump thread despite having a great start to the season, Does it suck he has two BS this early? Yes of course. But I am not getting my panties in a bundle just yet.

[theavrock]

Honestly, I didn't see any comments in this thread that could be labeld "overreacting." I do think many people are concerned, and I don't think that's unreasonable. I was concerned about Hoffman before the season even started, fearing the Brewers went to the well once too often.

 

Let's remember he gave up a run vs the Rockies as well, even though he got the save. But that's 4 outings, giving up runs in 3 of them. At his age, I don't think it's unreasonable to have real concerns. With his stuff, he has to really be on every time he takes the mound. It's not like a guy who throws 95-96 with movement. Then you can make a mistake and get away with it.

 

It doesn't really matter if Hoffman has lost a tick on his fastball. The problem has been location. Both HR yesterday were fastballs down the middle. Hoffman absolutely needs to locate his fastball or he's in big trouble.

Two questions for you here. Why were you worried about Hoffman? I have seen this multiple times in this thread. Was it simply because he is older than most or was there something down the stretch? When a guy has had as much success as Hoffman has I wouldn't get worries about a guy until he starts showing me a reason to.

Also of course he needs to locate his pitches. The same could be said for every pitcher. You realize this isn't that uncommon April for pitchers right?

[GAME05]

it's hard for me to see that it would be possible for someone like Hoffman to just fall off a cliff ability-wise. even if he's lost one or two mph on his fastball, he hasn't used velocity as a weapon for a lot of years now. i mean, this is Trevor Hoffman we're talking about, not some ordinary pitcher.

 

but even if it got to the point that the Brewers had to take him out of the closer role, they'll almost certainly let him get his 600th first.

[dlk9s]

the HR he gave up to shapinova

You didn't even try to get his name right. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gifhttp://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[RobDeer 45]

I'm not going to overreact but I am a bit nervous. I think he'll be fine, he is just getting his fastball up too much. I think he will get back to hitting his spots and getting more changeups in where he wants them. But I will be nervous until he has a few dominate closes. I still feel like Friday was fluke HR.

[Menotti80]

I dont think people are overreacting. We have a 42 year old closer who throws an 85 mph fastball and he has given up 3 HRs in his last 2 innings pitched to blow 2 saves. That seems a little concerning, at least enough to warrant a thread about what might be the problem.

We had a 41 year old closer last year that throws an 85 mph fast ball last year too... so what? The problem is his fastball location right now, which a 42 year old first ballot hall of famer should be able to fix no problem.

 

I guess to me a lucky HR from someone's knees and HRs to Pujols and Holiday dont warrent this kind of reaction.

 

where's the threads about Yo sucking this year, or prince looking pretty mediocre so far?

 

 

[FVBrewerFan]

where's the threads about Yo sucking this year, or prince looking pretty mediocre so far?

 

Don't worry, I'm sure they're coming.

[sgtcluels]

His fastball rates are up so far (Sample size warning*), which automagically means he's throwing his best pitch (change) less. I'm concerned about him though, he didn't pitch well in spring, and hasn't pitched very well early. The Friday blown save was a good pitch, just the batter made a great swing. We do have Hawkins if he goes all Gagne/Turnbow on us, but I'm not nearly as confident in him this year so far, as I was last year.

[Patrick425]

Like others have said, I think Hoffman will do fine against "non-Pujols/Holliday" type hitters (Friday's HR was a bit freakish based on where the pitch was located). What I find troubling is the pitch selection to both Pujols and Holliday. Why was he trying to spot fast balls against them? I can possibly understand Pujols with a three run cushion and one on. However, once it became a one run game and he had Holliday at the plate, it should have been a steady diet of change ups low and away.

[FVBrewerFan]

I disagree. Any hitter in the majors will hit am 85 MPH down the middle of the plate. Hard. Not just Pujols and Holliday.

[endaround]

Hoffman's O-swing% right now is 9.5.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

I would give Sharapova a better chance of hitting that change-up out on Friday again over Stavinoha. That was a good pitch...the guy closed his eyes, fell to his knee and somehow hit it out. The MIA of the change-up last night was a little more baffling...and certainly those fastballs were not well located to their studs.

 

Last night was not a good outing, but it's way too early to panic.

[Bikeage77]

2 years ago in April Hoffman started out the year something like 1-5 with a 5.00 era. He rebounded fine. Sabathia often starts out shaky as well.

 

I'm not gonna say I'm not in panic mode to some extent, but let's wait until mid-may before talks of Hawkins taking over as the closer. It's most likely early season rust. I think he'll be fine, it's not like he's Mike DeJean or something.

 

I don't know if that sign has anything to do with it, I mean closers don't know what pressure is, right?

[GAME05]

Last night was not a good outing, but it's way too early to panic.

i'm not one to swear very often, but based on the number of f-bombs i very loudly dropped at the bar last night, i'm panicking at least a little bit.

[Bikeage77]

it was also in poor taste to boo hoffman off the field. i'm irritated by this fratboy attitude i'd hope to only find in chicago after every poor performance...we don't really wanna be like that, do we milwaukee?

[pitchleague]

We were blessed with awesomeness out of Hoffman's arm last season. The year before, however, he had given up something like 8-9 HR in his final year with San Diego. So, this isn't unprecedented at all.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if something is wrong with Trevor, though. Either physically (i.e. stiffness) or psychologically (i.e. Stavinoa's HR got in his head and he feels a bit anxious to throw changeups.)

 

Perhaps, the changeup just wasn't working for him in the bullpen and he decided to ditch it last night since it was just hanging on every pitch.

 

Maybe he got laughed at during the annual MLB Closers Convention during the winter because his fastball is only mid-80s and he's trying to prove the doubters wrong--and failing.

[FVBrewerFan]

I would give Sharapova a better chance of hitting that change-up out on Friday again over Stavinoha. That was a good pitch...the guy closed his eyes, fell to his knee and somehow hit it out. The MIA of the change-up last night was a little more baffling...and certainly those fastballs were not well located to their studs.

 

Last night was not a good outing, but it's way too early to panic.

I'm not so sure. I think Stavinoha was looking for a change-up down and in, and he got it. In fact, that seems to be a common theme. Maybe the Cards really figured out Hoffman's sequence? Could he be tipping pitches? Not sure, all I know is the Cards seemed to always know what was coming...or guessed right an awful lot.

 

 

[brains and braun]

No kidding about the booing. These same people were clamoring for "Hells Bells" just minutes earlier. Let's not boo the all-time saves leader off the mound in April please. Made me embarrassed to be part of the crowd.

[sheethead]

I'm not sure the crowd was necessarily booing Hoffman off the field, but instead were booing the outcome of the top half of the 9th inning. I'm sure Hoffman understood the fans discontent at that time. Let's not all assume these athletes have as paper thin of skin as some think they do.