Should the Brewers extend Weeks? [Latest: Won't negotiate once Spring Training starts]

[BrewCrewForever]

I suppose there is no chance at all that they would part with Matt Cain now? I can dream I guess.

[Invader3K]

Cain is only under contract with the Giants through 2012, when he'll be making $15 million. I don't think that's the kind of return the Brewers should look for if they're going to deal Prince at this point. You want 2-3 "good, young, & cheap" players that are going to be around 5-6 seasons.

 

We absolutely need a high upside return if we're going to see Prince traded. Melvin absolutely cannot settle for a Carlos Lee type return (which I don't think was a bad trade, it was just completely different circumstances).

[RyDogg66]

Partially my fault, but we should keep to the Weeks topic in this thread probably. THe bottom line is I dont think this team can wait for Lawrie to learn on the job at 2b, so it does make some more sense to move him off 2b if his bat is ready, and if that means he goes to 1b then so be it. However, if he can hack it at 2b then maybe Weeks gets moved off 2b after he is extended. I dont know, I just think moving Weeks back in the order to protect Braun and having Lawrie there as well could make for a decent offense.

[monty57]

There are certainly a lot of moving parts in this decision. If we assume that Lawrie can play 2B, RF & 1B and if we assume that Gamel could learn RF and 1B, we need to decide whether we'd be better off with Weeks at 2B and Gamel & Lawrie at 1B/RF, or if we'd be better off with Lawrie at 2B, Gamel at RF or 1B, using the money we'd spend on Weeks for a 1B or RF. We could also run an OF of Braun, Gomez/Cain/Schafer/Gindl, etc with Gamel at 1B, Lawrie at 2B and use the extra money on pitching. If we would indeed have to spend $8-10MM/year on Weeks, which seems to be the concensus on this board, then I'd probably rather go with the latter, although I wouldn't be mad if he were signed for that contract (I'd assume Melvin can run a budget).

[Invader3K]

However, if he can hack it at 2b then maybe Weeks gets moved off 2b after he is extended.

 

Where would you move him though? (Please don't say center field).

 

Also, I'm not sure if Weeks warrants $8 million or more at this point. You'd just be paying him for "upside" which is dangerous for a small market club, and for a guy that has already been in the majors a few years already. Frankly, I couldn't see giving him more than $5 million per season at this point, just based on his poor health history.

[BREWCREW5]

How about Weeks makes it through a WHOLE year healthy before the Brewers make him a very rich man. Lets talk about this in November.

[TooLiveBrew]

The point is to not let that happen, though. If the Brewers wait & offer him after a full season, you're talking about trying to re-sign a guy that's likely in the top 5 of 2B in the NL, entering his last arbitration season (aka walk year)... and he will be more expensive. If Weeks can stay healthy & produce like I expect him to do, he will probably see somewhere around $5M+ for his salary in 2011, and then be poised for a big payday in free agency. Of course, this all assumes he remains healthy.

 

And that's the Brewers' main bargaining chip in this situation, and I believe they should use it. Would a deal something like $5M / $8M / $10M / $12M (4 yrs./$35M), with a club option & cheap-ish buyout on year 4 be reasonable? The only thing I'd want the Brewers to wait on before moving ahead with Weeks is a Fielder extension. It shouldn't take much longer for the club to find out if extending Prince is realistic or not, imho. Even if the Brewers extend Weeks to the kind of contract I mention (not sure I have the value right), & decide he's a luxury they can't afford along with Prince, he should have a pretty solid trade value. If we can't keep Fielder, I definitely think Weeks needs to be retained.

[TwinsBrewersWorldSeries]

Given Weeks injury history, i think he would be misguided if he turned down 4/24 or 3/18

 

$4.5 2011

$5.5 2012

$6.5 2013

$7.5 2014 (option - 1.5M buyout)

 

Assuming he had a couple good years in there, he could cash in again in 2014 for a bigger FA deal

[Tbadder]

Lets look at this from Rickie's p.o.v. He knows how good he can be, and he knows how hard he works, and he knows if he stays healthy he'll be a top flight offensive 2Bman. He also knows better than anyone he has a tendency to get hurt, which really hurts his value. What should Rickie do? Stay put Rickie says. No extension. If I'm healthy arby will reward me enough to set me up for the rest of my life. If I stay healthy I'm gonna cash in big time and don't want to give away a year or two.

 

 

In other words if Rickie wants an extension then he's got confidence issues and I'd be worried if I was the Brewers. If he doesn't want an extension I'd be worried if I was the Brewers because it's gonna cost. In which case the only thing, given this scenario, that works for the Crew is that he doesn't succeed and he's once more cheap.

 

Having said that--god I hope they extend him. I totally agree with those that say Milwaukee has to take some contract chances in order to enhance their ability to compete long term.

[Warning Track Power]

Lets look at this from Rickie's p.o.v. He knows how good he can be, and he knows how hard he works, and he knows if he stays healthy he'll be a top flight offensive 2Bman. He also knows better than anyone he has a tendency to get hurt, which really hurts his value. What should Rickie do? Stay put Rickie says. No extension. If I'm healthy arby will reward me enough to set me up for the rest of my life. If I stay healthy I'm gonna cash in big time and don't want to give away a year or two.

 

 

In other words if Rickie wants an extension then he's got confidence issues and I'd be worried if I was the Brewers. If he doesn't want an extension I'd be worried if I was the Brewers because it's gonna cost. In which case the only thing, given this scenario, that works for the Crew is that he doesn't succeed and he's once more cheap.

 

Having said that--god I hope they extend him. I totally agree with those that say Milwaukee has to take some contract chances in order to enhance their ability to compete long term.

Agreed completely. And I for one would much rather take the "contract chances" on the likes of Weeks, a semi-known (only semi because of injuries) quantity to us as fans and a homegrown player, rather than bring in some other teams FA like Jeffrey Hammonds, Sean Berry or Jeff Suppan. And yes, I picked maybe the worst FA signings in Brewers history for emphasis.

[WisconsinSportsRule]

How about Weeks makes it through a WHOLE year healthy before the Brewers make him a very rich man. Lets talk about this in November.

That defeats the whole purpose then. There's no way you get him cheap after he explodes, so why not take the chance. I totally agree with the above posters as well, sometimes small market teams need to take contract chances. This would certainly classify.

[Pointer1VB]

Almost everyone is in agreement that the longer we wait, the more the price goes up. Isn't it obvious that we shouldn't wait that long?

[RobDeer 45]

The longer we we wait the more the price goes up but on the other hand do you want to extend a guy before he can prove he can play a whole year? I think because of injuries we will have bargaining power. I think we should extend him but part of me thinks we should see if he can stay healthy this year. Otherwise maybe do a shorter deal.

[JJHardy7]

So...what if we gave him a nice extension last year right before he got hurt?

 

I think there has to be some give and take with both the Brewers and Rickie. If there is no discount for his injuries, that could be a major hurdle to get over. Again, both parties have to agree to it. If Rickie is healthy all year and puts up big numbers, I think the contract talk will take care of itself at some point and time...and that may or may not be in Milwaukee.

[Wesrob1]

I have to say the time is now to sign him before he goes to the All Star Game or wins a Gold Glove and drives his price up! Having Weeks and Braun signed to multi year contracts would have to be very ensuring to Fielder if he decides he wants to stay.

[monty57]

I think Fielder has to be resolved first, and to me the Boras statement should show that Prince is not likely to re-sign here. I'd guess Weeks will be on a short list for extensions once the Brewers decide that Prince can't be extended. As I've said before, and JJ said in the previous post... it takes two to tango. The Brewers have to get some kind of discount for the fact that Weeks has missed a lot of time to injuries and hasn't put up that great of numbers in his career. They can't pay him one of the highest 2B contracts in the league based purely on potential. That said, he's not going to come for free. If both sides will be reasonable, I don't see why he couldn't be extended. I'm sure Weeks understands that he's one waggling bat away from another wrist injury that will cost him millions if he's not under contract.

[logan82]

I think Fielder has to be resolved first

 

I don't. That could drag on until some time into next year. That is if Boras and Fielder are even serious about an extension.

[HiAndTight]

Lets look at this from Rickie's p.o.v. He knows how good he can be, and he knows how hard he works, and he knows if he stays healthy he'll be a top flight offensive 2Bman. He also knows better than anyone he has a tendency to get hurt, which really hurts his value. What should Rickie do? Stay put Rickie says. No extension. If I'm healthy arby will reward me enough to set me up for the rest of my life. If I stay healthy I'm gonna cash in big time and don't want to give away a year or two.

 

 

In other words if Rickie wants an extension then he's got confidence issues and I'd be worried if I was the Brewers. If he doesn't want an extension I'd be worried if I was the Brewers because it's gonna cost. In which case the only thing, given this scenario, that works for the Crew is that he doesn't succeed and he's once more cheap.

 

Having said that--god I hope they extend him. I totally agree with those that say Milwaukee has to take some contract chances in order to enhance their ability to compete long term.

Or maybe he realizes that there is nothing he can do within his power to avoid these injuries, and he signs because he knows, as he recently stated, that the stability means leaving a little money on the table.

 

I don't buy the logic that if a guy signs and buys out Free Agent years then you shouldn't want to sign him because his confidence is low. I can't imagine anyone would argue that with regard to Ryan Braun.

 

Personally I would try and give Rickie 5 years(including this year to give him a 1 Million dollar bump) at 28 million with 2 option years, club option years at 12.5 each with a 2 million dollar buyout. So the 5 years would essentially be 26 million, the 28 would include the guaranteed 2 million he'd get from a buyout. 3.75 this year, 6 next year 7 the year after and 9.25 the year after.

 

That way you're protected against him breaking out and becoming Chase Utley and you can keep him a couple years longer if he does that, and if not, you can part was.

 

 

 

[JoeHova]

I don't. That could drag on until some time into next year. That is if Boras and Fielder are even serious about an extension.

Why wouldn't they be? They could easily have just said they weren't interested in negotiating during the season, which is a pretty common thing for an agent to say. I'm sure Prince wouldn't mind getting a huge payday 2 years early. I just doubt he will be interested in giving much (if any) of a discount in return for that.

[TooLiveBrew]

Why wouldn't they be?

 

One reason is because Boras clients rarely avoid testing the FA market. I know the 1B class could be relatively deep after 2011, but you never know. Pujols & Howard could sign extensions with their wealthy organizations, & Adrian Gonzalez could be traded & extended by his new team, which would leave Prince Fielder as the best bat available in that FA class.

 

If Boras & Prince figure they could get a comparable deal to what the Brewers are offering now, even if the FA class includes all three of those other first basemen, then why not gamble & wait? I'd bet on the Phils & Cards extending Howard & Pujols before they hit FA, which would leave Gonzalez as Prince's only competition. While it hurts them to have the Yankees likely out of the bidding war (can you ever really say that?), there would be plenty of wealthy/able to spend suitors to throw money into the ring.

[JoeHova]

If Boras & Prince figure they could get a comparable deal to what

the Brewers are offering now, even if the FA class includes all three of

those other first basemen, then why not gamble & wait?

Because they take on all the risk. That's the bargaining power the Brewers have right now. If Prince has a bad year or two or gets hurt, his contract will be much smaller (though still not small, obviously) than it would be now. They'd have to think they can get a much better deal in 2 years in order for waiting to be worth the risk. That's why it's imperative that the Brewers make an eye-catching offer if they want to keep Prince. It would be hard for anybody to turn down a guaranteed $150+ million (though not impossible, as Juan Gonzalez can attest).

[greeg35]

If prince was going to NOT gamble, he should have not gambled years ago. At this point he and Boras roll the dice. I think the Weeks argument boils down to how much of a discount would we get? That depends on Weeks' risk aversion and how confident he is that he'll stay healthy from here on out. If he's willing to give us a nice discount now, sign him asap. If not, start preparing to plug a hole.

[Ennder]

The longer we we wait the more the price goes up but on the other hand do you want to extend a guy before he can prove he can play a whole year?

 

Yes you do, but you pay him less because of it. If Weeks goes out and plays 162 games this season it doesn't do anything to lower his injury risk at all. He is still going to have bad wrists that could cause him problems at any time, it is going to take a good 2 full season to even start thinking of him as not being a risk anymore and even then they could blow at any time. The only thing playing 162 games does is raise his asking price. I think you either extend him now or you let him walk, waiting until the end of the year and then extending him is the only bad way to handle the situation. You pay full price but keep just as much risk that way.

[monty57]

Well stated, Greeg. Prince has already made tens of millions of dollars, so he's not hurting for money the way pre-arby players are. He really bears little risk right now. Even if he gets hurt tomorrow and misses the rest of the season, he'll make well over $10MM next year in arby. His big risk is a career-ending injury, which isn't something that happens all that often. If he wasn't willing to forego that risk and sign an extension that would buy out free agency years a couple of seasons ago, it's much easier for him to pass on it today. The Brewers would have to come up with a near-market-value contract to sign him. If Boras and Prince really believe that market value for him is over $200MM, there is no way the Brewers should take this any further. They should look at the best way to maximize his value to the Brewers' franchise, and move on to things that are more realistic such as possibly discussing a contract extension with Rickie Weeks.

[JoeHova]

If prince was going to NOT gamble, he should have not gambled years ago. At this point he and Boras roll the dice.

There is a big difference between saying yes to a Braun or Longoria style $40 million contract and saying yes to a $160 million (or whatever) contract. I just don't see why Prince/Boras would be interested in negotiating in bad faith for 2 years. What's in it for them? All they do is alienate a possible suitor if that's their plan.