Should the Brewers extend Weeks? [Latest: Won't negotiate once Spring Training starts]

[pretendastronaut]

Last night the guys on MLB network pretty much said that Weeks isnt worth a lot (in that he's had one good season) and the Brewers should concentrate on signing Fielder instead.

Someone (reynolds maybe) said Weeks has been watchin too much TV (about Pujols' spring training deadline).

 

 

Guess it depends on whose mouth it comes from, because they ranked him as the 7th best second baseman in the league, and referred to him as our "catalyst", during the Top 10 Right Now show. (Though I believe Reynolds was on that panel.)

 

I will be very disappointed if Weeks' doesn't have an extension signed. We can talk all we want about saving money to extend Grienke and Marcum, but I don't see losing Fielder and Weeks in the same offseason as helpful in accomplishing those tasks.

[Gobias Industries]

If his price is already at Uggla's (which I don't think he deserves because of the severe injury risk), I'd advocate just letting him play out this year and see if he has a similar year to last year. If he does, I still don't think he gets that much more than what Uggla got. And Milwaukee would probably be his number 1 choice even if he was a FA.

[reillymcshane]

If his price is already at Uggla's (which I don't think he deserves because of the severe injury risk), I'd advocate just letting him play out this year and see if he has a similar year to last year. If he does, I still don't think he gets that much more than what Uggla got. And Milwaukee would probably be his number 1 choice even if he was a FA.

 

 

Jayson Werth is a 4-5 WAR player for four years running. He got a $17 million a year - at age 32. Weeks had 6.1 WAR last year. If he does that again, could he equal that? I mean, he's only 28, and if he has another good year, why not. It only takes one team to go crazy. Why not the cubs?

[Mass Haas]

Minor league guru John Sickels with a Weeks career profile

[Warning Track Power]

Now that the Packers have won the Super Bowl, I can go back to worrying about this fulltime...when am I going to see his extension in the JSO Blogs?!? http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/mad.gif

[monty57]

They probably have a deal done, they just didn't want upstage the Packers and take all the Wisconsin media attention away from the Super Bowl :-)

[JohnBriggs12]

Personally, I think Uggla's contract is over the top. He's likely at some point well before his contract runs out to be moved off 2nd, more than likely to 1B, where his numbers are good but not elite.

 

But I don't put Weeks in the "elite" category either. His 2010 season, while impressive in some very obvious ways, looks very similar to the type of season Jose (K) Hernandez put up in 2002 and I don't think Jose K was ever though of as "elite". Unusual? Yes. All or nothing? Yes. Elite? No.

 

I know I'm old fashioned but a .269 BA, and 184 K's, which not too long ago would have been a major league record, are pretty significant negatives. To me, elite seasons by a 2B are what Utley put up from 05 to 08, Joe Morgan from 72 to 77, several seasons by Sandberg (84, 85, 87, 89-92) and most of Jeff Kent between 97 and 05.

[logan82]

If you can look past BA and strikeouts you realize that Weeks is a very very good hitter.

[Baldkin]

But I don't put Weeks in the "elite" category either. His 2010 season, while impressive in some very obvious ways, looks very similar to the type of season Jose (K) Hernandez put up in 2002 and I don't think Jose K was ever though of as "elite". Unusual? Yes. All or nothing? Yes. Elite? No.

I'm curious as to who you think had the better year last year, as a hitter... Weeks or Ichiro?

[PrinceFielderx1]

Trying to be a realist here and simplify things:

 

SIGNED

*Corey Hart: 3Yr/$26.5MM. 2011-2013 ~ $8.8MM/year

*Ryan Braun: 5Yr/$40.5MM. 2011-2015 ~ $8.1MM/year

*Yovani Gallardo: 5Yr/40.75MM. 2011-2015 ~ $8.15MM/year

 

Hart, Braun and Gallardo are already locked in for the unbelievably affordable price of $25MM/year. Now do the Brewers financials afford the following:

 

UNSIGNED

*Shaun Marcum: 4Yr/$40MM. 2011-2014 ~$10MM/year

*Zack Greinke: 5Yr/$100MM. 2013-2017 ~ $20MM/year

*Rickie Weeks: 5Yr/$50MM. 2011-2015 ~ $10MM/year

 

Now the extensions for Marcum and Weeks are at the top end of what I believe they can realistically expect and what I believe the Brewers limit should be. So that's the max I would probably give them. Greinke's is the Prince deal, which I honestly believe will keep him in Milwaukee. I don't expect him to jump to a big market in the future and the only way I see him leaving for a bigger amount is if a team like the Cardinals offer a 7 year $140MM deal or the like. I like Greinke's chances of staying in Milwaukee, assuming we can lock up Weeks to compliment Hart and Braun on offense and lock up Marcum to join Gallardo.

 

At the conclusion of this, we would have a core 6 guys, 3 hitters and 3 pitchers, signed for $65MM. That leaves 19 other roster spots to occupy approximately $25-$30MM of payroll. With Gamel, Lucroy, Axford, Braddock not likely to command huge salaries anytime soon, the cheap young players in the bullpen that have worked for the Crew over the past few seasons and the influx of cheap talent like Schafer in CF, can we realistically afford to give these deals out to Weeks, Greinke and Marcum? I don't feel like my predictions in terms of contracts are all that far off. Plus by the time McGehee is getting close to FA, Hart's deal will be up allowing some flexibility.

 

It gives us little wiggle room in the future in the event of injuries, but I'd be more than happy to lock this core in and give it a true shot at contending for the next five seasons. That window from 2011-2015 sure would provide some fun baseball in Milwaukee.

You forgot about Randy Wolfs 9.5 million that will be off the books after the 2012 season. He has a 2013 10 million option with a 1.5 million buyout. If I was the Brewers I'd try to re-sign Greinke, Marcum, Weeks and a good overall SS long term (Reyes?). Use prospects for everything else. I don't know if that is realistic. If not, then let Weeks walk after this year and trade/sign for a SS instead. The Brewers have depth at 2B (Gennett, Farris) and CF (Schafer,Komatsu) in the minors, but hardly any at SS. Luis Cruz doesn't sell me right now. This would also improve the Brewers defense up the middle which is key.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

Hart, Braun and Gallardo are already locked in for the unbelievably affordable price of $25MM/year. Now do the Brewers financials afford the following:

 

UNSIGNED

*Shaun Marcum: 4Yr/$40MM. 2011-2014 ~$10MM/year

*Zack Greinke: 5Yr/$100MM. 2013-2017 ~ $20MM/year

*Rickie Weeks: 5Yr/$50MM. 2011-2015 ~ $10MM/year

IMO, they won't get any of those three at those prices. The Uggla deal puts Rickie's price higher. Greinke won't sign anything until he sees how it goes here...if he has the year he's capable of, he's looking at Sabathia type money when his contract is up. Marcum could sign away a couple years of FA at an imputed $15mm per like you have there, but he probably wants a longer deal. Just my opinion, but I don't think we're going to get any hometown discounts.

[Warning Track Power]

Hart, Braun and Gallardo are already locked in for the unbelievably affordable price of $25MM/year. Now do the Brewers financials afford the following:

 

UNSIGNED

*Shaun Marcum: 4Yr/$40MM. 2011-2014 ~$10MM/year

*Zack Greinke: 5Yr/$100MM. 2013-2017 ~ $20MM/year

*Rickie Weeks: 5Yr/$50MM. 2011-2015 ~ $10MM/year

IMO, they won't get any of those three at those prices. The Uggla deal puts Rickie's price higher. Greinke won't sign anything until he sees how it goes here...if he has the year he's capable of, he's looking at Sabathia type money when his contract is up. Marcum could sign away a couple years of FA at an imputed $15mm per like you have there, but he probably wants a longer deal. Just my opinion, but I don't think we're going to get any hometown discounts.

The only deal of those that could even be considered hometown discount is Greinke's and I doubt he'll be signed for more on average per year than $20MM. Maybe more years, but not much more than $20MM per season. Weeks is my favorite Brewer and I gladly would give him $10MM per year but if he wants Uggla's deal he can walk. He's just not shown to be worth that...yet. Marcum, well considering he just signed for $4MM in arbitration, my proposal is 2.5x per year what he is making now. I don't think that's a hometown discount but I could be wrong.

[Invader3K]

I just have a suspicion something could get done yet with Weeks and maybe Marcum as well. I wouldn't expect a Greinke extension before the end of this season (if at all). Just a hunch.

[monty57]

I just have a suspicion something could get done yet with Weeks and maybe Marcum as well.

 

I hope you're right Invader. If we can extend two of Weeks, Marcum and Greinke, then I'm much more positive on the mid-term future of the franchise. If we could extend all three, then I think it'll be really fun to watch the Brewers for the foreseeable future. I just don't like the negative swing things seem to have taken with the Weeks extension talks.

 

I don't think that's a hometown discount but I could be wrong.

 

WTP, it seems a lot of people here think players deserve a lot more than I think they deserve. Weeks has to be compared to other 2B, not to Corey Hart. Justifiable or not, RF's historically have been paid much more than 2B. Marcum signed for below $4MM because his history leading up to this year led him to have a lower salary last season, and that has a significant impact on this year's pay, much like Rickie Weeks has been underpaid through arbitration due to his early injury history / iffy play. That's why, in my opinion, it's important to lock people up when they still have several "cheap" years of control. If you wait until they're in their last arby year before you talk about an extension, the player doesn't really have much to risk by waiting for free agency, much like it appears Weeks is going to do. We definitely should have tried to extend Weeks at this time last year, and we should definitely be looking at extending Marcum and Greinke right now.

[logan82]

Looking at Weeks' career stats, I think there is a good chance he can match or exceed what he did in 2010.

 

career

.253/.355/.429/.784

 

2010

.269/.366/.464/.830

[NievesNoNO]

monty57 wrote:

That's why, in my opinion, it's important to lock people up when they still have several "cheap" years of control. If you wait until they're in their last arby year before you talk about an extension, the player doesn't really have much to risk by waiting for free agency, much like it appears Weeks is going to do. We definitely should have tried to extend Weeks at this time last year, and we should definitely be looking at extending Marcum and Greinke right now.

I completely agree. You have to take on some risk to have the chance at benefiting. I also think there's a little bit of a misconception by some that the reason to extend a player is to get that player at a 'discount' in their free agent years. To some extent that's a decent motivation, however, in the Brewers case I think that just being able to keep a good player is enough of a reason to even slightly overpay with an extension. If Greinke reaches free agency there's 0 chance we resign him, probably the same with Marcum. The Brewers have exclusive negotiating rights, so to speak, right now with these guys so I'm hoping they take advantage of it.

 

Edit: I just realized I put nothing about Weeks in my post. It's really a tough call. I wish they'd have given Rickie the money they gave Hart, but that's in the past. I'm really hesitant because of the wrist injuries, but when Rickie plays he puts up elite numbers for a second baseman and he's just entering his prime. Then I think of all the effort that the team and Rickie has put in to improve defensively and I'm going to say yes, extend Rickie at 10 mil. per season and hope his wrists hold up.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

WTP, it seems a lot of people here think players deserve a lot more than I think they deserve.

 

 

I'm not sure this is the case. If you are referring to my skepticism, it's not that I think they deserve more, it's that the market will probably bear more. It only takes one team to "overpay". Given the Uggla deal, I just think Rickie and his new agent will want that 5 year/60+ type deal. If he stays healthy and has another year like 2010, he can probably get it. Would I pay that much? Not sure...I really like Rickie, but that's a rich deal. My guess is that's why they haven't signed one yet.

it's important to lock people up when they still have several "cheap" years of control.

I agree with this...that's the philosophy behind the Braun extension. Eventually one of these guys can get hurt and not pan out, but the philosophy is sound. I just think Weeks, Marcum and Greinke are too close to the big payday to get a discount in either dollars or years.

[endaround]

Except the $12m per year isn't that much. That is close the going rate for an average FA starter this year ($5.5m/win). Now 2B get paid less for some weird reason, but to hold out to get even a bigger 2B discount doesn't make sense.

[pretendastronaut]

McCalvy reports that Melvin said this to Witrado;

 

"We'll get a better sense of where we are in the next couple of days," Melvin told Witrado on Thursday. "We still have a little bit of time. We're always optimistic we can get something done, and we're still engaged in multiyear talks. If we don't [get that done] then we have to focus on this year."

 

Weeks' arbitration hearing is scheduled for Thursday of next week.

 

Link

[endaround]

That's terrible news. No, not the Weeks stuff. The fact that Witrado is still around.

[Invader3K]

This backs up my earlier hunch that something might still happen. It sounds more positive than some of the news we've heard recently, at least.

[pretendastronaut]

That's terrible news. No, not the Weeks stuff. The fact that Witrado is still around.

 

 

 

McCalvy's article mentions Witrado went to The Sporting News, and his twitter handle is @WitradoSN too. So, he's gone, but he's not gone. Sadly he has an article up on The Sporting News with an actual interesting quote from Prince too.

[endaround]

No, I know he's at TSN but he's still around

[BrewCrewForever]

The Brewers have stuck with Rickie through the injuries and low production. It would really suck to lose him now as he is about to hit his peak years.

[RockCoCougars]

No excuse not to get this done. Either overpay slightly for Weeks now, or hold on to the pipe dream of overpaying ridiculously for someone like Reyes in the off season.