Should the Brewers extend Weeks? [Latest: Won't negotiate once Spring Training starts]

[TwinsBrewersWorldSeries]

Not to go on an "anti-DM" rant here (he's done a fantastic job acquiring Marcum and Greinke), but i am still angry the way he handled the Hardy situation. It seems especially dumb now since we traded away Escobar (the only reason we dumped Hardy), and now have a glaring hole at Shortstop.

 

I realize (in a round about way) that trading Hardy for Gomez allowed us to trade Cain for Greinke, but i still think we could have found a good glove/no hit CF like Gomez pretty cheaply without trading an All-Star SS for him.

 

Hardy hasn't been a world-beater for three years, but a .725-.750 OPS with stellar defense + giving Weeks a reason to stick around, would make one wonder why we blotched that situation so badly.

[DannoMac21]

Not to go on an "anti-DM" rant here (he's done a fantastic job acquiring Marcum and Greinke), but i am still angry the way he handled the Hardy situation. It seems especially dumb now since we traded away Escobar (the only reason we dumped Hardy), and now have a glaring hole at Shortstop.

 

I realize (in a round about way) that trading Hardy for Gomez allowed us to trade Cain for Greinke, but i still think we could have found a good glove/no hit CF like Gomez pretty cheaply without trading an All-Star SS for him.

 

Hardy hasn't been a world-beater for three years, but a .725-.750 OPS with stellar defense + giving Weeks a reason to stick around, would make one wonder why we blotched that situation so badly.

Eh, I tend to disagree with you man. Yes, Hardy was a one time All-Star...but you can't just openly call him an "All-Star SS" as if he legitimately was, an All-Star SS. The guy was AWFUL and still is AWFUL. Getting rid of him was the smart thing. He was never going to get better here.

[Mr Southpaw]

Five Year Deal

 

2011 $7.0

2012 $10.0

2013 $11.0

2014 $13.0 Club Option $4.0

2015 $13.0 Club Option $2.0

 

Control for 3 years = $32

Control for 4 years = $43

Control for 5 years = $54

 

The insurance is built in and if Rickie become great, it is a bargain contract. Book it, Dano.

[Oldcity]

Why would he ever agree to a deal with two club option years?

[PrinceEatMeat]

Yeah, that must be the deal we offered to cause the talks to be broken off, lol.

[DHonks]

If it's going to be much over $10 million per season, I would instead attempt to allocate the money to Marcum and Greinke extensions. I'd like to try to build this team through pitching, and I'm comfortable with Taylor Green, Eric Farris, Josh Prince, or any of the other available inexpensive free agents available for 2b.

[PrinceFielderx1]

Why would Greinke sign an extension if he knew both Weeks and Fielder were going to be gone after this year? imo the Brewers have to at least re-sign Weeks to have a chance to re-sign Greinke. Greinke wants to play for a contending team. The Brewers would have to prove that they are a contending team without Fielder. That's going to be hard to do. Impossible if both Weeks and Fielder leave. That's what I think.

[RockCoCougars]

If it's going to be much over $10 million per season, I would instead attempt to allocate the money to Marcum and Greinke extensions. I'd like to try to build this team through pitching, and I'm comfortable with Taylor Green, Eric Farris, Josh Prince, or any of the other available inexpensive free agents available for 2b.

Eric Farris is not the answer. It seems to me that the logical thing to do in the event of a Weeks defection would be to put McGehee at 2nd and give Gamel the everyday job at 3rd.

[logan82]

[quote author=RickieWeeks23 wrote:

[/b]Eh, I tend to disagree with you man. Yes, Hardy was a one time All-Star...but you can't just openly call him an "All-Star SS" as if he legitimately was, an All-Star SS. The guy was AWFUL and still is AWFUL. Getting rid of him was the smart thing. He was never going to get better here.

JJ had one bad year at the plate. He was around league average last year with very good defense. He may not be an all star but he is far from awful.

 

McGehee cannot play 2B. I am not sure why that keeps coming back up.

[RockCoCougars]

logan3825]JJ had one bad year at the plate. He was around league average last year with very good defense. He may not be an all star but he is far from awful.

 

McGehee cannot play 2B. I am not sure why that keeps coming back up.

I agree with you about Hardy. I think Hardy's strength was actually on defense, next to maybe Yount he was the best defender I can remember the Brewers having at short (though I may be slightly jaded from watching Valentin/Jose K out there for about a decade). The offensive production was gravy. No doubt he was bad at the plate in '09, but I think that the demotion to AAA was bush league. I was never sold on Escobar (who I wanted included in a Peavy deal..... bullet dodged), and I was happy to see Melvin get some value out of him while he could.

 

As far as McGehee, I disagree. When Weeks was hurt, he played quite a bit second base. I don't remember in embarrassing himself out there, and that was the year that he was limited by his knee as well. If you want to really nitpick, I'm not sure that saying Casey 'cannot play 3B either' is too much of a stretch.

[logan82]

Ok, I was wrong, Casey McGehee can play 2B. He also did not make any major mistakes at 2B in his 20 games there. However, given that a good argument can be made that he is a below average defender at 3B, an easier defensive position, and his physical limitations, there is no way he should ever be considered to play 2B, outside of videogames, except in the most dire circumstances let alone going into a season with him penciled in as the starter at 2B. I prefer my 2B to not look like they are playing defense in a telephone booth.

[RockCoCougars]

Ok, I was wrong, Casey McGehee can play 2B. He also did not make any major mistakes at 2B in his 20 games there. However, given that a good argument can be made that he is a below average defender at 3B, an easier defensive position, and his physical limitations, there is no way he should ever be considered to play 2B, outside of videogames, except in the most dire circumstances let alone going into a season with him penciled in as the starter at 2B. I prefer my 2B to not look like they are playing defense in a telephone booth.

Agreed. I feel that McGehee can play second without being completely brutal, but I can't say that I think he can play second well. A theoretical infield of Fielder, McGehee, Betancourt and Gamel may be among the worst of all time. As far as Weeks goes, I think that he has the tools and the work ethic to become one of the better defensive 2b in the league, which is just one of the reasons that I'm still holding out hope that he can be retained for the long term.

[ecjimg]

Last night the guys on MLB network pretty much said that Weeks isnt worth a lot (in that he's had one good season) and the Brewers should concentrate on signing Fielder instead.

Someone (reynolds maybe) said Weeks has been watchin too much TV (about Pujols' spring training deadline).

[Oldcity]

This is all so ridiculous. Contracts are based off what a player will do, not what he has done. Saying he hasn't had the career of Uggla to this point is meaningless. Who's expected to be the better player in the next five years? The guy who was more valuable last season, or the guy who is 2.5 years older and already can't play second base? Weeks will be worth more than Uggla, and if the Brewers won't give him that contract, someone else gladly will.

[DHonks]

Stevo, that's not what Sheets always said. He frequently said that it's all about what you have done, not what you will do. At the same time, I agree. Although we can't tell with certainty what will happen.

[uwisfan]

I would take Uggla in a heartbeat over Weeks. He has proven consistently over his career and has put up near HoF numbers for a middle infielder. Weeks has had one solid season surrounded by a lot of bad ones.

[TooLiveBrew]

I definitely understand the appeal of Uggla's career numbers, and honestly can't fault anyone for preferring him to Rickie (I actually really like Uggla... the Marlins TV guys had a great HR call for him, to boot). But "solid" is not what Weeks's 2010 was. It was elite, and a reflection of his skillset as opposed to fluky.

[Funketown]

Stevo, that's not what Sheets always said. He frequently said that it's all about what you have done, not what you will do.

I'm pretty skeptical of the notion that Ben Sheets has a good enough understanding of the labor market for MLB players to be able to back up that statement. Players ought to be (and most likely are) paid for what they are expected to do, and often the strongest determinants of expected performance are past performance, age, body type, etc, with past performance probably being the strongest.

[monty57]

But "solid" is not what Weeks's 2010 was. It was elite, and a reflection of his skillset as opposed to fluky.

 

But, again, Uggla's contract was the highest for a 2B in the history of the game. Does one "elite" season mean that he should be the highest paid 2B in the history of the game?

 

Weeks will be worth more than Uggla, and if the Brewers won't give him that contract, someone else gladly will.

 

If an extension can't be reached, Weeks will definitely be sought after, but I disagree that teams will be lining up to meet or beat the Uggla contract. There will be some merited trepidation from teams due to Weeks injury history and some poor offensive and defensive performance prior to the last 1.5 seasons he's played.

 

That said, I like Weeks, and I do hope the sides are able to come to an agreement. I just worry that Weeks' camp is asking for more than he's worth, and the Brewers are offering less than he's worth, and the two sides may be too far apart to find a common ground. I hope I'm wrong, but early comments from both sides sounded like they wanted to get a deal done, while recent comments by both sides don't seem to point to a deal being reached.

[Warning Track Power]

Trying to be a realist here and simplify things:

 

SIGNED

*Corey Hart: 3Yr/$26.5MM. 2011-2013 ~ $8.8MM/year

*Ryan Braun: 5Yr/$40.5MM. 2011-2015 ~ $8.1MM/year

*Yovani Gallardo: 5Yr/40.75MM. 2011-2015 ~ $8.15MM/year

 

Hart, Braun and Gallardo are already locked in for the unbelievably affordable price of $25MM/year. Now do the Brewers financials afford the following:

 

UNSIGNED

*Shaun Marcum: 4Yr/$40MM. 2011-2014 ~$10MM/year

*Zack Greinke: 5Yr/$100MM. 2013-2017 ~ $20MM/year

*Rickie Weeks: 5Yr/$50MM. 2011-2015 ~ $10MM/year

 

Now the extensions for Marcum and Weeks are at the top end of what I believe they can realistically expect and what I believe the Brewers limit should be. So that's the max I would probably give them. Greinke's is the Prince deal, which I honestly believe will keep him in Milwaukee. I don't expect him to jump to a big market in the future and the only way I see him leaving for a bigger amount is if a team like the Cardinals offer a 7 year $140MM deal or the like. I like Greinke's chances of staying in Milwaukee, assuming we can lock up Weeks to compliment Hart and Braun on offense and lock up Marcum to join Gallardo.

 

At the conclusion of this, we would have a core 6 guys, 3 hitters and 3 pitchers, signed for $65MM. That leaves 19 other roster spots to occupy approximately $25-$30MM of payroll. With Gamel, Lucroy, Axford, Braddock not likely to command huge salaries anytime soon, the cheap young players in the bullpen that have worked for the Crew over the past few seasons and the influx of cheap talent like Schafer in CF, can we realistically afford to give these deals out to Weeks, Greinke and Marcum? I don't feel like my predictions in terms of contracts are all that far off. Plus by the time McGehee is getting close to FA, Hart's deal will be up allowing some flexibility.

 

It gives us little wiggle room in the future in the event of injuries, but I'd be more than happy to lock this core in and give it a true shot at contending for the next five seasons. That window from 2011-2015 sure would provide some fun baseball in Milwaukee.

[TooLiveBrew]

Does one "elite" season mean that he should be the highest paid 2B in the history of the game?

...

That said, I like Weeks, and I do hope the sides are able to come to an agreement. I just worry that Weeks' camp is asking for more than he's worth, and the Brewers are offering less than he's worth, and the two sides may be too far apart to find a common ground. I hope I'm wrong, but early comments from both sides sounded like they wanted to get a deal done, while recent comments by both sides don't seem to point to a deal being reached.

I think this handicaps the situation really well. For my part, I guess I'm not too hung up on any type of historical context, but Chase Utley's contract is still the biggest ever given to a second baseman. Uggla's has a slight edge in AAV, but Utley's deal covered all of his arbitration seasons (Uggla's covered one), and obviously is for more total money.

 

So to me, the question becomes do I/does one mind Rickie Weeks being the second-highest paid second baseman in MLB? And like I've stated previously, for me it's no. I believe Weeks is the type of hard to replace talent you build a team around. But I can understand why others might see it as too great a risk.

 

I think it stinks that it appears both the Brewers & Weeks/Genske are taking relatively extreme stances on this contract. There's a happy medium to be found here, but like you say monty, it doesn't look like that's going to happen.

[Oldcity]

I would take Uggla in a heartbeat over Weeks. He has proven consistently over his career and has put up near HoF numbers for a middle infielder. Weeks has had one solid season surrounded by a lot of bad ones.

Weeks hasn't had a bad season; he's had injuries. He performed at a high level the years he was injured as well. The concern with the injuries is mainly whether he'd be able to recover and still perform at a high level. He proved he can last season.

Your opinion is your opinion, but I wouldn't take Uggla over Weeks. Uggla isn't a second baseman; he just plays second base. His defense is terrible and he should be moved to third or a corner OF.

 

[Mr Southpaw]

Why would he ever agree to a deal with two club option years?

 

13 million reasons then 13 million more reasons.

[Oldcity]

He can get a contract with all that guaranteed.

[brewtank34]

Trying to be a realist here and simplify things:

 

SIGNED

*Corey Hart: 3Yr/$26.5MM. 2011-2013 ~ $8.8MM/year

*Ryan Braun: 5Yr/$40.5MM. 2011-2015 ~ $8.1MM/year

*Yovani Gallardo: 5Yr/40.75MM. 2011-2015 ~ $8.15MM/year

 

Hart, Braun and Gallardo are already locked in for the unbelievably affordable price of $25MM/year. Now do the Brewers financials afford the following:

 

UNSIGNED

*Shaun Marcum: 4Yr/$40MM. 2011-2014 ~$10MM/year

*Zack Greinke: 5Yr/$100MM. 2013-2017 ~ $20MM/year

*Rickie Weeks: 5Yr/$50MM. 2011-2015 ~ $10MM/year

 

Now the extensions for Marcum and Weeks are at the top end of what I believe they can realistically expect and what I believe the Brewers limit should be. So that's the max I would probably give them. Greinke's is the Prince deal, which I honestly believe will keep him in Milwaukee. I don't expect him to jump to a big market in the future and the only way I see him leaving for a bigger amount is if a team like the Cardinals offer a 7 year $140MM deal or the like. I like Greinke's chances of staying in Milwaukee, assuming we can lock up Weeks to compliment Hart and Braun on offense and lock up Marcum to join Gallardo.

 

At the conclusion of this, we would have a core 6 guys, 3 hitters and 3 pitchers, signed for $65MM. That leaves 19 other roster spots to occupy approximately $25-$30MM of payroll. With Gamel, Lucroy, Axford, Braddock not likely to command huge salaries anytime soon, the cheap young players in the bullpen that have worked for the Crew over the past few seasons and the influx of cheap talent like Schafer in CF, can we realistically afford to give these deals out to Weeks, Greinke and Marcum? I don't feel like my predictions in terms of contracts are all that far off. Plus by the time McGehee is getting close to FA, Hart's deal will be up allowing some flexibility.

 

It gives us little wiggle room in the future in the event of injuries, but I'd be more than happy to lock this core in and give it a true shot at contending for the next five seasons. That window from 2011-2015 sure would provide some fun baseball in Milwaukee.

 

I like your analysis WTP. I agree that they Marcum, Weeks and Greinke could all be wearing Crew uni's for a long time. It's going to come down to whether Weeks wants to taste the Free Agency market. Once we lose Fielder, we're going to need Weeks' numbers and power in the line-up. I'm hoping the upper brass can get it done.