Should the Brewers extend Weeks? [Latest: Won't negotiate once Spring Training starts]

[clancyphile]

monty57 wrote:

That said, I would like to see the Brewers come to terms with Weeks, but I'm with the group that would rather sign Greinke and Marcum (if that's possible). If Weeks is indeed trying to become the highest paid 2B in MLB history, than I think it's in the best interest of the Brewers to let him walk. He's had a good season and a half of MLB baseball under his belt, so I think he's asking too much if he thinks he should get that contract.

I think everybody would rather have Greinke and Marcum instead of Weeks. Unfortunately Greinke will likely cost a boatload of money. Think CC or Lee money as a starting point. That is not within our budget unless something pretty drastic happens with revenue sharing. Greinke, like Fielder, is not a realistic target right now. By comparison Weeks would only get half as much money even as the highest paid 2B.

Plus, the Brewers would need Weeks to have a hope of keeping Greinke in the fold.

Sign Weeks and Marcum, then try to get Greinke in the fold.

 

[sbrylski]

Looks like Rickie's hitting free agency. He set the start of spring training as an extension deadline. I highly doubt we get anything done by then, considering how far apart the two sides are.

 

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/114899254.html

[PilprinBuddha]

I would love to resign Weeks....but Greinke is waayyyyyyy more valuable. I have a feeling we could deal Weeks and get younger and an equal on defense. Offensively, Rickie has been very good when healthy. We would likely take a step back there.

[uwisfan]

why would the brewers deal Weeks? That makes no sense given their desire to "go for it" this year. If he has a bad year, they re-sign him for cheap. If he has a good year, they will take the picks unless the Crew is out of the running early and want to dump salary.

[Warning Track Power]

I wish we knew what both sides were offering long term. I know its difficult to find comparables for Rickie but it sure does seem like both sides may be having a little unrealistic expectations. I wonder if the sticking point is years, money or both. I really thought Weeks extension was inevitable and now it sure does seem like it's less than 50-50 whether he gets extended. I hope he does because realistically, when was the last time the Brewers were able to sign a free agent of Rickie's ability? I think he's irreplaceable in the short term.

[sbrylski]

Can someone tell me why teams and/or players are never willing to do something like the following?

 

Offer Rickie a base salary of $40 million over five years, for an AAV of $8. For every 30 games Weeks plays, he earns an additional $1 million. If he were to average 150 games per season over the life of the deal, he would earn $65 million over the five years.

 

And ta-da! Weeks has security, and we aren't on the hook for a huge market deal unless he's actually worth it. Weeks could earn more money in total than Dan Uggla ($62 over 5 years) who his side seems to think is a comparable player.

 

Crisis solved.

[tyguy20204]

For one reason, because guaranteed money is infinitely more valuable to a player than incentives are. In most cases a player and agent will opt for the guaranteed money, even if the the ceiling for the incentives measures out to a higher number. As they should.

Weeks, even with his injuries, has put up enough value to the point where he doesn't need to consider such drastic incentives. As we've seen, all it takes is one team and suddenly the money is there.

Another reason is that incentives can become quite messy if they're based upon plate appearances/starts. We've seen that plenty of times in the past, with a team perhaps wanting to sit that player down - and the player obviously not wanting that.

[danzig6767]

Can someone tell me why teams and/or players are never willing to do something like the following?

 

Offer Rickie a base salary of $40 million over five years, for an AAV of $8. For every 30 games Weeks plays, he earns an additional $1 million. If he were to average 150 games per season over the life of the deal, he would earn $65 million over the five years.

 

And ta-da! Weeks has security, and we aren't on the hook for a huge market deal unless he's actually worth it. Weeks could earn more money in total than Dan Uggla ($62 over 5 years) who his side seems to think is a comparable player.

 

Crisis solved.

Players want guaranteed cash is why. That way if they get hurt, they still get paid.

[Patrick425]

danzig6767[/b]]

sbrylski06[/b]]Can someone tell me why teams and/or players are never willing to do something like the following?

 

Offer Rickie a base salary of $40 million over five years, for an AAV of $8. For every 30 games Weeks plays, he earns an additional $1 million. If he were to average 150 games per season over the life of the deal, he would earn $65 million over the five years.

 

And ta-da! Weeks has security, and we aren't on the hook for a huge market deal unless he's actually worth it. Weeks could earn more money in total than Dan Uggla ($62 over 5 years) who his side seems to think is a comparable player.

 

Crisis solved.

Players want guaranteed cash is why. That way if they get hurt, they still get paid.

Yes, but I think one of sbrylski's points is that if Weeks gets injured this year and misses a majority of the season, all of a sudden he's not nearly as valuable and will probably not get the big bucks he is seeking in the FA market. This way he could have the best of both worlds - the security of $40million guaranteed with the opportunity to make more if he stays healthy.

 

[Invader3K]

I think Weeks is being a bit selfish in this situation, unfortunately. The Brewers stuck by him through multiple injuries, and it finally paid off last year, after he had already been in the bigs for 5 years. Now it just seems like he is simply looking to cash out and not offer any sort of "hometown discount."

 

I know this is completely typical in pro sports. It's just sort of disappointing.

[crewcrazy]

I'm hesitant to say he's being selfish or greedy until we know what he's looking for. We do have the arbitration figure he submitted, but those are always on the high end from the player's side. If anything, I fear that the Brewers are lowballing Weeks.

[Ennder]

Weeks is one swing of the bat away from his career ending with another wrist injury, I think he wants to get a good contract while he has a chance because this really could be the only big contract of his career. I don't really blame him for wanting a pretty big price while his value is high and his perceived risk is lower than his actual risk.

[Warning Track Power]

Someone on the JS boards made the comparison of Weeks to Brandon Phillips and used his extension, 4yr/$27MM signed in 2008, as a jumping off point for Rickie.

 

Phillips

Year	Tm	G	PA	AB	R	H	2B	3B	HR	RBI	SB	CS	BB	SO	BA	OBP	SLG	OPS	OPS+	TB	GDP	HBP	SH	SF	IBB
2002-2007	CLE,CIN	442	1751	1618	215	424	77	9	53	207	61	17	87	289	.262	.306	.419	.726	85	678	58	22	12	12	7

Weeks

Year	Tm	G	PA	AB	R	H	2B	3B	HR	RBI	SB	CS	BB	SO	BA	OBP	SLG	OPS	OPS+	TB	GDP	HBP	SH	SF	IBB
2003-2010	MIL	642	2823	2413	446	610	109	24	89	265	91	20	303	648	.253	.355	.429	.784	106	1034	31	87	8	12	8

While the stats aren't exactly comparable, as Rickie has 200 more games and almost 700 more PAs over that time, I think it gives a very low end for what Rickie would be looking for. Phillips has been a wonderful player for the Reds over the past few years and has arguably been a bargain. 4yrs/$27MM is almost $7MM per season and undoubtedly less than what Rickie is asking for but still is a good comparison when considered it was signed in 2008. FWIW, Phillips is making $11MM this season.

[TooLiveBrew]

The Brewers stuck by him through multiple injuries

 

What were they going to do, cut him? He was under team salary control.

 

I hope the Brewers can get this worked out, but it's looking more & more like they've botched this beyond repair.

[Invader3K]

The Brewers stuck by him through multiple injuries

 

What were they going to do, cut him? He was under team salary control.

 

I hope the Brewers can get this worked out, but it's looking more & more like they've botched this beyond repair.

Some teams would have probably cut him. If Lawrie had been able to stick at 2B and advancd a little more quickly, that isn't an impossible scenario.

I don't see how you can say they've "botched this beyond repair." I can already see the Rickie Weeks Fan Club on this board is ready to tar and feather Melvin if Weeks leaves in free agency.

 

[sveumrules]

Or Weeks' side botched it by asking for Uggla money which Rickie doesn't deserve with his injury history.

 

Point being with the paucity of information that we have available to us it's really impossible to tell which side deserves which percentage of the blame for botching things.

[TooLiveBrew]

Some teams would have probably cut him.

 

Cleveland cutting Brandon Phillips loose (not due to injuries) is the only example I can think of like this, and that was obviously a bad decision.

 

 

I can already see the Rickie Weeks Fan Club on this board is ready to tar and feather Melvin if Weeks leaves in free agency.

 

sveumrules makes a good point that it's not just a one-way street, & we don't have access to the inside info. However, the idea that being mad about the possibility that the team will lose a top-5 player in the league at his position makes me a blinded-by-rage member of a lynch mob is pretty comical. I've been a pretty big supporter of Melvin overall, but yes I will be pissed if he lets Weeks get away. The team obviously isn't re-signing Fielder, so not only do they need Weeks's offense, but they can afford it -- including the risk.

[Warning Track Power]

TooLiveBrew[/b]]Some teams would have probably cut him.

 

Cleveland cutting Brandon Phillips loose (not due to injuries) is the only example I can think of like this, and that was obviously a bad decision.

 

 

I can already see the Rickie Weeks Fan Club on this board is ready to tar and feather Melvin if Weeks leaves in free agency.

 

sveumrules makes a good point that it's not just a one-way street, & we don't have access to the inside info. However, the idea that being mad about the possibility that the team will lose a top-5 player in the league at his position makes me a blinded-by-rage member of a lynch mob is pretty comical. I've been a pretty big supporter of Melvin overall, but yes I will be pissed if he lets Weeks get away. The team obviously isn't re-signing Fielder, so not only do they need Weeks's offense, but they can afford it -- including the risk.

100% agreed, assuming he isn't asking for AAV more than $10MM. Like I have said previously, I'm a pretty big Melvin guy but he has been the guy to give Suppan/Gagne $10MM AAV contracts and Riske/Hawkins $3.5-$4MM AAV contracts. To all of a sudden go cheap on a player like a homegrown phenomenal talent like Rickie when we're already losing Prince's bat, would make me join the "blinded-by-rage member of a lynch mob" with TLB.

 

Get this done guys.

[logan82]

Even if Weeks is asking over $10m/year he is worth the money unless you start going over $14/year. They gave Hart near $9m/year and I don't think he is the hitter Weeks is let alone at a premium position.

[RockCoCougars]

I'm getting the hunch that this situation is getting more difficult as time goes on. I want to retain Weeks at a fair price (perhaps a four year deal for a little less per than Uggla) , but I'm starting to get the feeling that the window has probably closed on that. I would attribute most of the difficulty in getting something done to the new agent, because I can't see the team being stupid enough to take the negotiations public without some acrimony going on. At any rate, I would hate to see Weeks walk, but I'm guessing that the recent deals given to Werth and Beltre have put dollar figures in his and his agent's eyes.

[Patrick425]

I always thought of the "After ST starts, negotiations are over, because I don't want it to be a distraction" comments ranked right up there "One game at a time" and "This city's fans are the greatest" type statements. Is it really that big of a destraction? I can see not wanting it to be a dragged out deep into the season and having it be something that is constantly in the papers, but what if they came back with something a week or two after ST started? Are you just going to refuse to even listen to it because your "deadline" has passed? I understand the arbitration date is Feb 17th, but that doesn't mean you still can't work out an extension after that date. If you are really interested in getting something done and are really content with where you are playing, who you are playing for, and the fans you are playing in front of, I would think you would have a little more flexibility in your time line.

 

To me it just means that Weeks has absolutley no problems with becoming a FA after the season and possibly already has his mind set on it. If that's true, I wonder not only how much of that has to do with his new agent, but also with Fielder's status. I wonder how much he talks to him about the situation.

[RockCoCougars]

To me it just means that Weeks has absolutley no problems with becoming a FA after the season and possibly already has his mind set on it. If that's true, I wonder not only how much of that has to do with his new agent, but also with Fielder's status. I wonder how much he talks to him about the situation.

 

That could very well be the case. Plus I still worry about how the Hardy situation played out affected things. By many accounts, Hardy and Weeks were very close. Part of me still hopes that the Orioles tank early in the season and Hardy is brought back.

[logan82]

You get the impression from Ash's comments that Weeks' agent is asking for a deal similar to Uggla(which I think would be fair) and the Brewers think that is to much. I personally like Sam's idea. That is how I have been thinking it should be done. From Weeks end I could see him getting all that money guaranteed by a team if he goes to free agency which would be preferable to playing time bonuses.

[TooLiveBrew]

From Weeks end I could see him getting all that money guaranteed by a team if he goes to free agency which would be preferable to playing time bonuses.

 

According to baseball-reference, Rickie has earned almost $9M to this point in his career. Unless he's managed it really poorly, it's not like he's really hurting for money. In his position, if the Brewers aren't willing to pay up, free agency looks like a very reasonable target.

 

Someone agreed to pay Jayson Werth, a guy who didn't play a full season until he was 30 due to wrist problems (including ligament tears), truckloads of money into his late 30s at a corner OF position. Meanwhile the Brewers have an opportunity to lock up an elite player at a far more difficult position for roughly half of what Werth got. I think Rickie will play out 2011 & have multiple teams willing to match the Uggla contract in free agency.

[DuWayne Steurer]

To me it just means that Weeks has absolutley no problems with becoming a FA after the season and possibly already has his mind set on it. If that's true, I wonder not only how much of that has to do with his new agent, but also with Fielder's status. I wonder how much he talks to him about the situation.

 

That could very well be the case. Plus I still worry about how the Hardy situation played out affected things. By many accounts, Hardy and Weeks were very close. Part of me still hopes that the Orioles tank early in the season and Hardy is brought back.

Given some of the parting shots JJ took at the front office, I don't see that as even a remote possibility.