Lack of bats in the system

[bklynbrewcrew]

Other than Lawrie and Gamel do we have anyone else with the potential to become an elite offensive player. I see a clear lack of bats in our system and think we really need to focus on elite hitters in this years draft. I love our minor league pitching depth but offense looks like a problem.

[paul253]

I made a similar post in the draft thread. Wisconsin and BC sure look depleted offensively. I'd still think the Brewers follow the BPA philosophy for the draft, but I hope the best player available is a college bat. Some of the draft guys don't think it's likely though as it's a weak draft for college bats.

 

Other than the two you listed, Kentrail Davis has a pretty high ceiling I think. He started out in A+, which even Lawrie didn't do and even though it's only been a few games he seems to be holding his own. A lot of people seem to be excited about Scooter Gennett too. Plus guys like Cain, Schafer, Green, and Gindl, while maybe not future all stars, I think can have very solid careers.

[Tedaldtada]

You know, I think we have plenty of potential impact hitters coming. We could always use more.

 

Salome has an impact bat for a C. Lucroy is close as well.

 

We have Dennis at first base. All he does is hit.

 

Lawrie, and I guess Gennet, are coming up as second basemen.

 

Nothing to special at short, but I consider Escobar a potential impact bat.

 

Gamel and Green both have above average hitter ceilings for third basemen.

 

In the outfield, I could see any of Richardson, Kentrail Davis, Gindle, or Cain making an all-star team or two. Schafer is close.

 

I still very much believe in Maxwell Walla who will probably play in Helena this summer. Plus we just signed a young Latin player (Pena maybe?) who has tons of potential.

 

None of these guys are Prince or Braun good, yet, but they all have the ability to really take off.

[TheCrew07]

How many do you realistically expect to have in the minors at 1 time?

 

Beyond the players already mentioned, Salome has the potential to be an impact bat from the C position. Off the top of my head players that could project with league average numbers or better are Lucroy, Gindl, Cain, Dennis, Richardson, and Green. Other players I'm intrigued by are players like Garfield, Walla, Schafer, Prince, and Kjeldgaard.

 

So the potential difference makers are Lawrie, Gamel, Davis, and Salome.

 

Players that could be average or better are Lucroy, Gindl, Cain, Dennis, Richardson, and Green. I want to throw Schafer here, but I'm not sure he'll put up league average numbers, Farris isn't even putting up league average numbers for the position in the minors so I didn't list him.

 

The vast majority of those players are in AA or AAA this year, so we'll have a nice infusion of talent to the MLB roster in the near future. We don't need to have a team of impact bats to compete, we just need a couple and everyone else to be average or better, just eliminate the black holes in the line up and we're okay. I can't believe I'm saying this but if Fielder would be extended for any length of time the offense it going to get pretty damn good. The only players I listed that you couldn't make an argument for 20 HRs out of at this time are Cain, Richardson, Schafer, and Prince.

 

Even if the majority of those guys fail if we can assemble an impact rotation we'll be right there competing for the division every year.

 

edit. Forgot to add Davis back in.

[dadofandrew]

Suffering from the trade of Laporta, Brantley, and to a lesser degree Gillespie. Add Gamel, Lawrie, Salome, and Gindl to that, you have a nice list.

[PeaveyFury]

Wisconsin and BC sure look depleted offensively.

 

I'll admit I had to look at this awhile to figure out why it wasn't in the hockey thread....

[logan82]

Lawrie's bat is special by most accounts and Gamel is probably at least an above average bat at the MLB level. We don't have any Fielder or Braun level bats but I think we have quite a few better than average MLB bats coming up in th system. Th problem is other than Gamel they are not likely to be ready before the middle of next year depending on their development.

[uwisfan]

well, you get bats like Braun and Fielder coming through the system and suddenly you think like the Yankees. The Brewers refocused on pitching in recent years and its starting to show. Meanwhile, the bats in the minors are alright. Not a lot of clear #3 and #4 pro hitters, but certainly a few with that kind of ceiling and many others that would fill out a nice lineup.

[jjfanec]

Another guy to keep an eye on is Katin. I watched him tonight and he looked very patient at the plate. If he can bring his walks up a little and lower his K's he could be a solid late-bloomer. He hits the ball very hard. I was not high on him last year, but tonight (I know small sample size) he looked very good

[battlekow]

No wonder the Brewers don't always order MRIs on their players--they can't even afford bats!

[DHonks]

I've tried following the minors since around '98. The amount of bats we have in the minors right now is greater than at any other time. They might not be the studs that Fielder/Hardy/Hart were, but they're still very good--and plentiful

[igor67]

You definitely have a lot of guys that you can fill in around Braun and Fielder, and crank out winning teams. A few even have All-star potential though not necessarily 1.000 OPS guys.

[Playing Catch]

While guys like Braun and Fielder are impact bats as soon as they're drafted, other players develop into impact bats. At one time the Brewerfan editors had Gamel as the #48 guy on the Power 50. I think that by the end of the season, we will be pretty excited about all of the bats we have in the system. But I tend to be an optimist.

[Mass Haas]

It's not all that far-fetched to say that Fielder and Braun are on their way to having Hall of Fame (or near Hall of Fame) careers. Their names shouldn't even be brought up when these comparisons are made (and I'm saying that in general terms, not calling anyone out). I'm simply saying how spoiled we've been by them.

[The Truth]

I think Angel Salome has the potential to have a much better than average bat for his position. If Joe Mauer is "elite" then not to that level, but in going along with what Mass Haas said, Mauer has the potential to be a Hall of Famer. I think Salome has the offensive potential to be make the All-Star team a couple/three times in his MLB career, and I think that qualifies as "elite" for a prospect

[jjfanec]

It is true we do not have Braun and Fielder type hitters our young bats have started well. Gindl, Lawrie, Green, Lucroy, Katin, Cain, and Salome have started well. Davis and Gennett are holding their own in their aggressive placements as well.

[colbyjack]

I think it's a legitimate concern. There are plenty of players to point to and be excited about, but how many have the potential to be true, impact hitters? There is nice positional depth, but I'm talking potential all-stars, or even potential perennial all-stars.

 

And for as much OF depth the team has, we've felt the team has been loaded with OFers for several years now, and yet there doesn't seem to be a clear-cut option for CF or RF if Gomez doesn't develop and Hart doesn't get back on track. And of course, if Fielder leaves, what happens at 1B?

 

I like the additions of Davis and Gennett in the draft last year, as they both were supposed to be drafted higher than where they were (Gennett more so than Davis) and have made their pro debut at full season ball. However, I wouldn't call either one an impact bat, a middle of the order hitter. Gindl has the most potential past Gamel and Lawrie in the system, and often gets overlooked despite hitting at every stop he's made. The Brewers have invested some serious $$$ in some Latin American outfielders the past year or two, but it's going to take a while before we figure out what the heck we have in those players (and so far, players like Hitaniel Arias haven't panned out as hoped).

 

If there were an impact draft to take at #14 in this year's draft I would fully support it. However this year's draft is heavy with pitching, and it may be unwise not to take advantage of this depth.

[uwisfan]

part of the reason you cant expect a true HOF bat in the system after Braun & Prince is because the Brewers simply havent been drafting in the top 10 for the past several years, aside from LaPorta. The young position players on the Crew that have been playing at all-star levels (Weeks-2, Prince-7, and Braun-5) were all top 7 picks.

 

There are a lot of bats with upside, but if they had the obvious immediate upside, they'd have likely been picked higher.

[LouisEly]

Yeah, I'd rather not be in the position to be able to draft a Braun, Fielder, or Weeks again any time soon. Besides, the Giants are showing that you can have a lot of very mediocre hitters on a major league team and still win if the pitching is there.

[logan82]

Yeah, I'd rather not be in the position to be able to draft a Braun, Fielder, or Weeks again any time soon. Besides, the Giants are showing that you can have a lot of very mediocre hitters on a major league team and still win if the pitching is there.

Correct me if I am wrong but don't the Giants play a lot of games in pitcher's parks? I thought all of the NL West was pitchers parks except for Colorado and that has played pretty neutral since the addition of the humidor. I guess what I am trying to say is that maybe that is the best way to build a team in the NL West. I am not sure it would work as well in the NL Central with all the neutral and hitters parks.

[nate82]

Correct me if I am wrong but don't the Giants play a lot of games in pitcher's parks? I thought all of the NL West was pitchers parks except for Colorado and that has played pretty neutral since the addition of the humidor. I guess what I am trying to say is that maybe that is the best way to build a team in the NL West. I am not sure it would work as well in the NL Central with all the neutral and hitters parks.

Does Arizona really play in a pitcher friendly park? I know the dimensions are in the pitchers favor but the ball carries very well in Arizona.

 

Found this for 2009. I'm not sure you can say that the NL West is mainly a pitchers haven you do have San Diego, San Francisco, and Los Angeles but Arizona and Colorado are neutral to hitter friendly.

Major League Baseball Ballpark OPS

 

	Team	BA	OBP	SLG	OPS	R/Gm	2B	3B	HR	BB
1	Baltimore	.288	.348	.461	.810	10.16	328	24	205	511
2	Colorado	.276	.350	.450	.800	10.41	319	62	172	614
3	Boston	.273	.344	.455	.799	10.35	378	27	191	562
4	NY Yankees	.266	.346	.446	.793	10.11	268	15	237	649
5	LA Angels	.281	.345	.444	.790	10.25	284	22	194	528
6	Texas	.267	.335	.451	.786	9.79	305	32	215	519
7	Philadelphia	.265	.335	.442	.777	9.57	311	28	207	544
8	Arizona	.268	.336	.439	.776	10.09	335	53	174	549
9	Minnesota	.275	.337	.436	.773	10.12	283	37	189	512
10	Milwaukee	.258	.335	.437	.772	9.30	317	36	201	607
11	Kansas City	.278	.345	.420	.765	9.85	295	53	129	542
12	Florida	.267	.344	.419	.762	10.10	293	28	169	623
13	Tampa Bay	.260	.332	.428	.760	9.59	295	36	185	565
14	Washington	.260	.337	.420	.756	9.81	316	42	162	612
15	Toronto	.257	.327	.428	.755	9.37	330	20	194	546
16	Houston	.271	.333	.421	.755	8.41	268	35	164	489
17	Detroit	.259	.333	.417	.750	9.25	250	34	179	571
18	Pittsburgh	.267	.333	.414	.747	8.81	311	34	143	526
19	Cincinnati	.253	.327	.416	.743	8.51	279	25	187	564
20	Chi. White Sox	.255	.327	.414	.742	9.26	257	19	192	553
21	Cleveland	.266	.337	.403	.740	9.22	314	19	138	575
22	Chi. Cubs	.255	.333	.405	.738	9.15	268	30	160	597
23	NY Mets	.261	.332	.402	.733	8.56	296	42	130	554
24	Oakland	.260	.326	.398	.724	9.26	290	26	140	517
25	St. Louis	.259	.326	.384	.710	8.10	277	24	120	502
26	Atlanta	.251	.326	.381	.708	8.02	273	36	124	584
27	Seattle	.249	.313	.385	.698	8.00	258	16	156	497
28	San Francisco	.251	.312	.386	.698	8.02	261	40	129	452
29	LA Dodgers	.247	.318	.374	.692	7.93	265	26	127	522
30	San Diego	.226	.311	.348	.659	7.40	214	28	129	634

Only for 2009 but it shows Miller Park being a pitchers park last year.

MLB Park Factors - 2009
RK	PARK NAME	RUNS	HR	H	2B	3B	BB
1	Coors Field (Denver, Colorado)	1.247	1.082	1.158	1.266	1.771	1.070
2	Chase Field (Phoenix, Arizona)	1.193	1.042	1.092	1.304	1.559	1.004
3	Wrigley Field (Chicago, Illinois)	1.146	1.006	1.024	1.052	0.920	1.040
4	Sun Life Stadium (Miami, Florida)	1.136	1.127	1.075	1.110	0.636	1.141
5	Kauffman Stadium (Kansas City, Missouri)	1.113	0.761	1.155	1.196	1.472	1.068
6	Mall of America Field (Minneapolis, Minnesota)	1.090	1.111	1.037	1.006	1.218	0.938
7	Rangers Ballpark in Arlington (Arlington, Texas)	1.085	1.194	1.062	1.074	1.455	1.072
8	Fenway Park (Boston, Massachusetts)	1.072	0.964	0.994	1.370	1.080	0.884
9	U.S. Cellular Field (Chicago, Illinois)	1.062	1.193	0.957	0.918	0.792	1.133
10	AT&T Park (San Francisco, California)	1.052	0.970	1.011	1.016	1.111	0.863
11	Oriole Park at Camden Yards (Baltimore, Maryland)	1.037	1.185	1.112	0.979	1.043	0.926
12	Citizens Bank Park (Philadelphia, Pennsylvania)	1.028	1.005	1.018	1.047	0.903	1.019
13	Comerica Park (Detroit, Michigan)	1.026	0.974	0.961	0.951	1.076	1.027
14	PNC Park (Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania)	1.022	1.054	1.053	0.939	0.714	0.969
15	Angel Stadium of Anaheim (Anaheim, California)	1.020	1.220	1.002	0.925	0.611	0.974
16	Nationals Park (Washington, D.C.)	1.008	0.970	0.966	1.000	1.135	0.965
17	Tropicana Field (St. Petersburg, Florida)	0.996	0.939	1.004	1.021	1.500	0.954
18	Great American Ball Park (Cincinnati, Ohio)	0.975	1.176	0.995	1.018	1.087	1.037
19	Oakland Coliseum (Oakland, California)	0.974	0.927	0.946	0.901	1.130	0.970
20	Yankee Stadium (New York, NY)	0.965	1.261	0.995	0.810	0.500	1.104
21	Safeco Field (Seattle, Washington)	0.947	0.886	0.984	0.911	0.842	1.085
22	Citi Field (New York, NY)	0.943	1.057	0.955	0.955	1.200	0.942
23	Rogers Centre (Toronto, Ontario)	0.937	0.990	0.899	0.994	1.053	0.987
24	Minute Maid Park (Houston, Texas)	0.930	1.065	1.036	0.873	1.000	0.968
25	Busch Stadium (St. Louis, Missouri)	0.919	0.736	0.981	0.952	0.686	1.033
26	Turner Field (Atlanta, Georgia)	0.895	0.861	0.938	0.848	1.091	1.066
27	Miller Park (Milwaukee, Wisconsin)	0.886	1.069	0.932	1.071	1.091	0.995
28	Dodger Stadium (Los Angeles, California)	0.857	0.876	0.959	0.989	0.605	0.780
29	Progressive Field (Cleveland, Ohio)	0.838	0.670	0.960	1.010	0.528	0.950
30	Petco Park (San Diego, California)	0.741	0.721	0.805	0.711	0.778	1.142

Second one is from ESPN:

Park Factor compares the rate of stats at home vs. the rate of stats on

the road. A rate higher than 1.000 favors the hitter. Below 1.000 favors

the pitcher. Teams with home games in multiple stadiums list aggregate

Park Factors.

 

 

• PF: ((homeRS + homeRA)/(homeG)) / ((roadRS +
  roadRA)/(roadG))
• homeRS: Runs scored at home
• homeRA: Runs allowed at home
• homeG: Home games

• roadRS: Runs scored on the road
• roadRA: Runs allowed on the road
• roadG: Road games

First graph is fromhere.

[FVBrewerFan]

I'm just thrilled there is more pitching in the system from top to bottom than there has been in many, many years. I'm not that concerned about the bats, because quite frankly there's no place to put them anyhow. You have young players locked in at every position except Catcher. And they have two bats in the system nearly ready there. Prince leaves? You still have Gamel. Heck, it's going to be hard finding a spot for Lawrie in the next couple years.

[CheezWizHed]

Wisconsin and BC sure look depleted offensively.

 

I'll admit I had to look at this awhile to figure out why it wasn't in the hockey thread....

Unfortunately, BC was not depleted offensively and Wisconsin was (at least for one game).

 

But back to BB. The last few years (and maybe still a bit today), there was a major void in pitching in the system. But we had a number of good bats. And we found out how expensive it was to "buy" pitching with minor league position players. Hopefully, soon we will have a backup of pitching that can be used to back-fill some position player spots.

 

Obviously, we would prefer to have both, but I think we are better off having a good supply of pitchers than the other way around.

[HiAndTight]

Lawrie's bat is special by most accounts and Gamel is probably at least an above average bat at the MLB level. We don't have any Fielder or Braun level bats but I think we have quite a few better than average MLB bats coming up in th system. Th problem is other than Gamel they are not likely to be ready before the middle of next year depending on their development.

I actually agree. We have a lot of nice position players on their way up.

 

I remember when we were talking about trying to re-sign Prince, I said there are two things I would want to ensure if I'm the Brewers FO.

 

1-Sign Yo to a long term contract. Check

2-Develop a Farm system that's going to be able to produce players for you year after year on the cheap, but ready to contribute in peripheral roles. You're going to be spending a lot of money on Prince, YO, Braun and hopefully Weeks, so you're not going to be able to look elsewhere like we did this past off-season when we signed Wolf and Davis.

 

I think the path we're on with pitching, everyone can agree things look GREAT right now with the arms. You never know where that will ultimately take you as our top 5 could get hurt or hi, but as of now.

 

So we need to make sure we've got the bats. The type of bats who compliment your core of Prince, Braun, Weeks and Escobar.

 

Taylor Green is the epitome of that for me. He's not going to be Ryan Braun hitting .324 and slugging .660 as a rookie, but the way he draws walk and his bat control, I think he could be a dynamic #2 hitter. The type who could hit .290/.375 with 15-18 HR's.

I think Jon LuCroy is a very similar player, except the Batting Average would obviously be much lower.

 

But you've got a lot of other good young players.

Caleb Gindl, Green and LuCroy are all solid guys who carry very high OBP's.

Brett Lawrie is in a class all his own in our system as I believe he could be truly special. Maybe just a step below Braun/Prince type special. He possses incredible power and the ability to be a star.

Mat Gamel is a guy I think everyone's is very much down on after a sluggish second half last year, but lets not forget, he was putting up ridiculous numbers before last year and he has that beautiful short, quick swing that will serve him well.

Kentrail Davis is another guy who could be a star.

Obviously Salome is a guy who could be a star...could be a bust.

 

And then you still have a number of guys who are a ways away. Walla, Garfield, Richardson, as well as some of the LA kids we've signed.

 

And then some guys like Adam Heether, Eric Farris.....guys like this have value. If you're going to spend 22 million dollars on Prince, and you've got Prince, Braun, Rickie(hopefully locked up), Escobar as your core, you need good solid, and CHEAP guys to fill in around them.

 

Perhaps Taylor Green takes over at 3rd base and hits 2nd. I think he profiles perfectly there.

Gamel moves to RF and takes over for Hart and his bloated contract.

Salome and LuCroy take over the catching duties.

Gomez, Shaefer, Kentrail Davis, or Lorenzo Cain can battle it out in CF.

 

 

That's a BIG chunk of guys within the next year+ who all have the ability to come in and contribute right away.

 

Just for fun 2 years down the road

1-Weeks® 2B

2-Green(L) 3B

3-Braun® LF

4-Prince(L) 1B

5-Lawrie® RF

6-Kt Davis(L) CF

7-LuCroy® C

8-Escobar® SS

 

This leaves guys like;

Mat Gamel, Casey McGehee,Lo Cain, Logan Schaefer, Angel Salome, Adam Heether, Caleb Gindl, Eric Farris, Chris Dennis, Josh Prince, Scooter Gennett, Max Walla, Cameron Garfield(the last handful more than 2 years away).

 

 

The point is if you're going to sign Prince for 20 million, have Braun here for 10 million(about, won't be there in 2 years just yet) and sign Rickie Weeks(which I think we should have done already on the cheap, but should do NOW(for 8 million) you're going to need to have a lot of guys who can produce for you on the cheap. This is a starting lineup that you can afford, is VERY well rounded, and has the potential to be VERY good. That's about 42 million on a starting lineup from a team that's expected to approach the 100 million dollar mark around this time.

 

Couple that with the fact that we all KNOW that we've got a lot of pitching on the way and I think it's a pretty damn good time to be a Brewers fan!

 

[HiAndTight]

I'm just thrilled there is more pitching in the system from top to bottom than there has been in many, many years. I'm not that concerned about the bats, because quite frankly there's no place to put them anyhow. You have young players locked in at every position except Catcher. And they have two bats in the system nearly ready there. Prince leaves? You still have Gamel. Heck, it's going to be hard finding a spot for Lawrie in the next couple years.

I agree on the pitching. I'm downright giddy about all these young talented arms. There are just sooo many of them that some of them HAVE to work out. My bet for the next prospect to have a major impact as a starting pitcher is going to be Amaury Rivas IMO. Throws mid 94-95 with a great change that was voted best in the FSL by the manager.

 

Anyway, I do think that we've got some spots.

 

There are a number of players who I could see being gone in the next year or two as a result of money issues, or performance.

Hart-Lawrie

Gomez-Davis/Schafer/Cain

Zaun-LuCroy/Salome

McGehee-T. Green/Mat Gamel

 

That's just within the next 1-2 years.

 

 

Anyway, keep drafting the pitchers Brew Crew. I welcome the question that comes with too many talented flame throwers that you don't have places for!