2 games in ...

[local hero]

I agree with Hawkins y-day. Some of his career stat-lines make me think twice about really counting on him though, including a 4.5+ era and 60-81 W/L...primarily in a relief role.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

Not that this thread's argument holds any water anyways due to lack of a sample, but it should be noted that Zaun has had some well struck balls turn into outs so far. Therefore, in his first 8 AB's luck has not been on his side. (BABIP = .000)

[local hero]

Zaun = Kendall

Id be willing to bet that you are completely incorrect here.

Really? How's that?

 

Zaun: A 40 yr-old career .250 hitter / .387 SLUGGING coming off a couple of years where he hit .240 and .259?

 

I'd love to have it end up being an "upgrade" though....lord knows it wouldn't take much.

 

James

[local hero]

Although it seems laughably early, sometimes it's never too early. Both teams come into this series ready to go and pretty well rested up. COL was (and likely IS) a playoff team, so I don't think it's too much of a stretch to take something away from this series.

 

I for one would be quite enthused to see them bounce back and take this series today.

 

James

[sheethead]

So, what will you think when he has 2 straight donut games?

 

Depends on how many killer GIDPs are involved. It really is only two games, but I'm not expecting a whole lot from Zaun this year. I wonder if his quad is still bothering him.

[local hero]

To be perfectly honest, Zaun's signing was pretty typical of the Brewer off-season to me: a bunch 4-5/10 players that will not likely add much anywhere. I mean look at Zaun: ONLY because Kendall was so disastrous at the plate last year can you even begin to consider a guy hitting .245 an "improvement". However, with him nearing 40, I could easily see an almost worthless .220 - .230 5 month escapade.

 

Sorry, just don't see much of an up-side to the guy.

 

James

[brewerfan82]

Can we lock and archive these threads each year so we can look back at how ridiculous they are? I try to laugh them off, but they still irritate me somehow, lol

[Baldkin]

Tell me who they were supposed to sign as a stopgap considering Lucroy and Salome aren't ready yet to play in the big leagues.

Zaun's OPS over the last 3 years is 100 points higher than Kendall's. .739 to .633. That difference is huge.

He was in the top half of C's in OPS last year who started 90 games.

You're greatly overestimating the offensive output from the C position around baseball.

[RobDeer 45]

Tell me who they were supposed to sign as a stopgap considering Lucroy and Salome aren't ready yet to play in the big leagues.

Zaun's OPS over the last 3 years is 100 points higher than Kendall's. .739 to .633. That difference is huge.

He was in the top half of C's in OPS last year who started 90 games.

You're greatly overestimating the offensive output from the C position around baseball.

Thank You!

 

Way too much overreacting going on http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif Plus I think that Kotts is going to be an interesting guy this year. I'm excited to see him play and I think a combo of these two could be in the top half of offensive output for catchers. Remember people, you rarely get a guy playing that position that is a good to great batter. That's what makes Mauer so valuable.

 

After two days I'm back on the Rickie train. I'm trying to keep my excitement down as much as possible.

 

[CheezWizHed]

WOAHS SOLVDD!

[local hero]

Tell me who they were supposed to sign as a stopgap considering Lucroy and Salome aren't ready yet to play in the big leagues.

Zaun's OPS over the last 3 years is 100 points higher than Kendall's. .739 to .633. That difference is huge.

He was in the top half of C's in OPS last year who started 90 games.

You're greatly overestimating the offensive output from the C position around baseball.

Overrating offensive production at the postion?

 

Take a look at these 25 or so who played last year:

 

Name TEAM G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OB SLG AVG

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/trans.gif

1. V Martinez*

 

 

 

 

BOS

 

C

 

155

 

588

 

88

 

178

 

33

 

1

 

23

 

108

 

282

 

75

 

74

 

1

 

0

 

.381

 

.480

 

.303

 

 

 

 

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/trans.gif

 

 

 

2.

K Suzuki*

 

 

 

 

OAK

 

C

 

147

 

570

 

74

 

156

 

37

 

1

 

15

 

88

 

240

 

28

 

59

 

8

 

2

 

.313

 

.421

 

.274

 

 

 

 

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/trans.gif

 

 

 

3.

J Mauer*

 

 

 

 

MIN

 

C

 

138

 

523

 

94

 

191

 

30

 

1

 

28

 

96

 

307

 

76

 

63

 

4

 

1

 

.444

 

.587

 

.365

 

 

 

 

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/trans.gif

 

 

 

4.

R Martin*

 

 

 

 

LAD

 

C

 

143

 

505

 

63

 

126

 

19

 

0

 

7

 

53

 

166

 

69

 

80

 

11

 

6

 

.352

 

.329

 

.250

 

 

 

 

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/trans.gif

 

 

 

5.	A Pierzynski*

 

 

 

 

CWS

 

C

 

138

 

504

 

57

 

151

 

22

 

1

 

13

 

49

 

214

 

24

 

52

 

1

 

1

 

.331

 

.425

 

.300

 

 

 

 

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/trans.gif

 

 

 

6.

B Molina*

 

 

 

 

SF

 

C

 

132

 

491

 

52

 

130

 

25

 

1

 

20

 

80

 

217

 

13

 

68

 

0

 

0

 

.285

 

.442

 

.265

 

 

 

 

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/trans.gif

 

 

 

7.

B McCann*

 

 

 

 

ATL

 

C

 

138

 

488

 

63

 

137

 

35

 

1

 

21

 

94

 

237

 

49

 

83

 

4

 

1

 

.349

 

.486

 

.281

 

 

 

 

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/trans.gif

 

 

 

8.

Y Molina*

 

 

 

 

STL

 

C

 

140

 

481

 

45

 

141

 

23

 

1

 

6

 

54

 

184

 

50

 

39

 

9

 

3

 

.366

 

.383

 

.293

 

 

 

 

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/trans.gif

 

 

 

9.	J Kendall*

 

 

 

 

MIL

 

C

 

134

 

452

 

48

 

109

 

19

 

2

 

2

 

43

 

138

 

46

 

58

 

7

 

2

 

.331

 

.305

 

.241

 

 

 

 

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/trans.gif

 

 

 

10.	R Barajas*

 

 

 

 

TOR

 

C

 

125

 

429

 

43

 

97

 

19

 

0

 

19

 

71

 

173

 

20

 

76

 

1

 

0

 

.258

 

.403

 

.226

 

 

 

 

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/trans.gif

 

 

 

11.	M Montero*

 

 

 

 

ARI

 

C

 

128

 

425

 

61

 

125

 

30

 

0

 

16

 

59

 

203

 

38

 

78

 

1

 

2

 

.355

 

.478

 

.294

 

 

 

 

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/trans.gif

 

 

 

12.

G Laird*

 

 

 

 

DET

 

C

 

135

 

413

 

49

 

93

 

23

 

2

 

4

 

33

 

132

 

40

 

68

 

5

 

0

 

.306

 

.320

 

.225

 

 

 

 

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/trans.gif

 

 

 

13.

M Olivo*

 

 

 

 

KC

 

C

 

114

 

390

 

51

 

97

 

15

 

5

 

23

 

65

 

191

 

19

 

126

 

5

 

2

 

.292

 

.490

 

.249

 

 

 

 

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/trans.gif

 

 

 

14.

J Posada*

 

 

 

 

NYY

 

C

 

111

 

383

 

55

 

109

 

25

 

0

 

22

 

81

 

200

 

48

 

101

 

1

 

0

 

.363

 

.522

 

.285

 

 

 

 

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/trans.gif

 

 

 

15.

M Napoli*

 

 

 

 

LAA

 

C

 

114

 

382

 

60

 

104

 

22

 

1

 

20

 

56

 

188

 

40

 

103

 

3

 

3

 

.350

 

.492

 

.272

 

 

 

 

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/trans.gif

 

 

 

16.	D Navarro*

 

 

 

 

TB

 

C

 

115

 

376

 

38

 

82

 

15

 

0

 

8

 

32

 

121

 

18

 

51

 

5

 

2

 

.261

 

.322

 

.218

 

 

 

 

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/trans.gif

 

 

 

17.

J Baker*

 

 

 

 

FLA

 

C

 

112

 

373

 

59

 

101

 

25

 

0

 

9

 

50

 

153

 

41

 

89

 

0

 

0

 

.349

 

.410

 

.271

 

 

 

 

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/trans.gif

 

 

 

18.	J Varitek*

 

 

 

 

BOS

 

C

 

109

 

364

 

41

 

76

 

24

 

0

 

14

 

51

 

142

 

54

 

90

 

0

 

0

 

.313

 

.390

 

.209

 

 

 

 

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/trans.gif

 

 

 

19.	M Wieters*

 

 

 

 

BAL

 

C

 

96

 

354

 

35

 

102

 

15

 

1

 

9

 

43

 

146

 

28

 

86

 

0

 

0

 

.340

 

.412

 

.288

 

 

 

 

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/trans.gif

 

 

 

20.

G Soto*

 

 

 

 

CHC

 

C

 

102

 

331

 

27

 

72

 

19

 

1

 

11

 

47

 

126

 

50

 

77

 

1

 

0

 

.321

 

.381

 

.218

 

 

 

 

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/trans.gif

 

 

 

21.	I Rodriguez*

 

 

 

 

HOU

 

C

 

93

 

327

 

41

 

82

 

15

 

2

 

8

 

34

 

125

 

13

 

74

 

0

 

2

 

.280

 

.382

 

.251

 

 

 

 

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/trans.gif

 

 

 

22.

C Ruiz*

 

 

 

 

PHI

 

C

 

107

 

322

 

32

 

82

 

26

 

1

 

9

 

43

 

137

 

47

 

39

 

3

 

2

 

.355

 

.425

 

.255

 

 

 

 

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/trans.gif

 

 

 

23.	C Iannetta*

 

 

 

 

COL

 

C

 

93

 

289

 

41

 

66

 

15

 

2

 

16

 

52

 

133

 

43

 

75

 

0

 

1

 

.344

 

.460

 

.228

 

 

 

 

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/trans.gif

 

 

 

24.	R Hernandez*

 

 

 

 

CIN

 

C

 

81

 

287

 

25

 

74

 

13

 

1

 

5

 

37

 

104

 

33

 

34

 

1

 

0

 

.336

 

.362

 

.258

 

 

 

 

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/trans.gif

 

 

 

25.	J Saltalamacchia*

 

 

 

 

TEX

 

C

 

84

 

283

 

34

 

66

 

12

 

0

 

9

 

34

 

105

 

22

 

97

 

0

 

2

 

.290

 

.371

 

.233

Now tell me how I'm "overestimating the offensive output of the C position" when I expect more than an empty .220 - .240 BA?

 

James

[vacin8r]

There is nothing wrong with wanting offensive output from your catcher. Especially after a couple years of watching Kendall. The problem is that roster construction does not exist in a vaccuum. What exactly do you propose the Brewers should have done to improve the position? Salome and Lucroy are knocking on the door to the big leagues and between the two of them, one should be a legit major league catcher with offensive skills. I dont remember there being any top 10 catcher available through FA and even if they were they would require a long term big money deal rendering our prospects useless. I suppose maybe the best bet could have been outbidding for Shoppach on the trade market, overpaying for Bengie Molina, or maybe getting Texas to trade one their 2 catchers. I just look at the fact that experts have lauded the signing of Zaun because 1)we got him for a 1 year deal where other mediocre catchers including Kendall got 2 year deals, and 2) Zaun was the best of the next tier of catchers at OBP a skill the Brewers wanted to improve this off season. That was my opinion a week ago and 2 games wont change that.

[local hero]

^ I'll go ahead and keep my stance that 40 yr old Zaun will not be anywhere near an "upgrade" over Kendall in 5 months.

 

This is where this all stems: someone taking issue with my basic: Kendall = Zaun...not because I thought the Brewers should have run out and signed Johnny Bench.

 

Perhaps not a perfectly balanced equation, but I'll bet it will be pretty damn close when this plays out.

 

James

[RayKingsForemanGrill]

OMG! We're only 1/2 game out of first!!!!!! With 159 to go! I almost can't contain myself.

[Thurston Fluff]

Although it seems laughably early, sometimes it's never too early. Both teams come into this series ready to go and pretty well rested up. COL was (and likely IS) a playoff team, so I don't think it's too much of a stretch to take something away from this series.

 

I for one would be quite enthused to see them bounce back and take this series today.

 

James

While nothing can be learned from two game if the premise is you can know something then we know this. If we assume the Rockies are a playoff caliber team and the Brewers are .500 against them it stands to reason the Brewers are as good as the Rockies. Thus the Brewers are a playoff caliber team so far.

[areacodes]

^ I'll go ahead and keep my stance that 40 yr old Zaun will not be anywhere near an "upgrade" over Kendall in 5 months.

 

This is where this all stems: someone taking issue with my basic: Kendall = Zaun...not because I thought the Brewers should have run out and signed Johnny Bench.

 

Perhaps not a perfectly balanced equation, but I'll bet it will be pretty damn close when this plays out.

 

James

What would be considered "pretty damn close" to you?

 

Here are their respective lines over the last 3 years:

 

.243/.320/.313/.633 - Kendall (1443 ABs)

.246/.342/.397/.739 - Zaun (838 ABs)

 

To me, a 100+ point difference in OPS isn't close at all, and actually represents pretty good improvement as well as not being "empty" as you claim.

 

Also, just to let ya know, Zaun is 38 and not 40 as you keep repeating.

[And That]

Although it seems laughably early, sometimes it's never too early.

But most of the time it is... like now.

[Ennder]

Very confused how you can compare that game by Wolf to Looper from last year. The others are overreactions but at least they made a little sense.

[local hero]

ok, semantics, Zaun turns 39 in 162 hours. Yep, you're right, he's not 40.

 

LOL, thanks for stat-line... already pretty close in the last 3 years, thanks!

 

A near statistical mirror in BA, but great point in the insanely over-hyped OPS stat...let's see where it matters in the runs and rbi dept.

 

I'd say talk to me in 5 months, but it will prolly take half the time.

 

James

[local hero]

Very confused how you can compare that game by Wolf to Looper from last year. The others are overreactions but at least they made a little sense.

I didn't compare "that game" or any other for that matter. But, lets!

 

4 earned runs, 9 hits in what, 6 1/3 (2/3's?) and a WIN. Didn't walk anyone though...nice there.

 

Sounds like Looper afterall (remind me again where Loop ranked in run-support last year)!

 

Can anyone see "wolfman"! escaping miller park with a sub 4.5 era? Let me know how.

 

James

[PKBadger]

A near statistical mirror in BA, but great point in the insanely over-hyped OPS stat...let's see where it matters in the runs and rbi dept.

 

 

Higher OBP = on base more often = more runs (you have to be on base to score, after all)

 

Higher SLG = more extra-base hits = easier to drive in runs = more RBI

 

 

It ain't rocket surgery.

[FVBrewerFan]

Wolf has ONE start vs a team that was #2 in the NL last year in runs scored, and he equals Looper?

[brewerfan82]

2007-2009 averaged for 450 at-bats:

AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB HBP SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS

Kendall 450 44 110 22 2 2 42 40 12 46 6 3 .243 .320 .313 .633

Zaun 450 57 111 28 1 13 59 64 3 76 1 2 .246 .342 .397 .739

This is why people like OPS over batting average. While it's not the end-all, be-all in statistics, it better reflects a player's overall offensive contribution. Zaun's significantly better production in extra-base hits and walks aren't reflected in his batting average. In turn, you can see his better on-base and power skills have resulted in more runs and rbis as well.

I'd be very surprised to see Zaun have a year anything close to as poorly as what Kendall's done recently.

[areacodes]

ok, semantics, Zaun turns 39 in 162 hours. Yep, you're right, he's not 40.

 

Agreed, he's not 40. Couldn't tell that from your posts.

 

A near statistical mirror in BA, but great point in the insanely

over-hyped OPS stat...let's see where it matters in the runs and rbi

dept.

 

So we're suppose to compare the two based on opportunities out of their control? When you are getting 200 more ABs a year, you should score more runs and have more RBIs as you'll have more chances, hence the reason I looked at OPS. Even with the advantage of 600 more ABs, Kendall has managed only 33 more runs and 24 more RBIs.

 

In the past 3 years when he is in the line up, Zaun has been more productive than Kendall and should provide the Brewers an upgrade offensively.

I'd say talk to me in 5 months, but it will prolly take half the time.

 

So in 2.5 months we'll be looking at what?

[rluzinski]

Good Lord....the overreactions thus far are comical. I actually winced while reading the Opening Day IGT....before Gomez and Edmonds stepped to the plate, they were already the suckiest sucks who ever sucked.

That was based on the results of hundreds of previous AB, not two games.