Yankees respond to Mark A comments... a feud brewing?

[vacin8r]

Next salvo from Mark A needs to be: I bet you a million dollars you couldnt win a world series with a payroll under 125million.

[JohnBriggs12]

Knowing that Bill Veeck had complained about lack of revenue sharing way back when he owned the St. Louis Browns I did a little research. Veeck used to accurately point out that games are played by 2 teams and without 1 of those two teams, there is nothing to show or broadcast.

 

In 1952 Veeck proposed splitting television (then in it's infancy) and radio revenue with each team per game. He was voted down 7-1 by his fellow AL owners. So he refused to authorize any broadcast or telecast of Browns' road games for that year. Apparently, individual teams had to give "expressed written consent" as the old disclaimer says to have it's teams games on the air. That so incensed the other owners, that they didn't schedule any Friday night games in St. Louis. Friday night games were popular in St. Louis and this hurt Veeck in the pocket book. That and the Cardinals being sold to wealthy new owners forced him to sell the Browns so they could be moved to Baltimore as league owners would have stymied Veeck and prevented him from moving the team.

 

The point is that Attanasio seems willing to carry the torch for smaller markets and I applaud him for that. It's too bad that Veeck isn't still around to see this. That idiot Mike Greenburg made the absurd comment that Attanasio's remarks would be better if they came from a fan. Hello Mike, us fans have been screaming about this for decades, but the East Coast media ignores us. In fact Attanasio's remarks were completely ignored until Levine reacted to them.

[monty57]

Well, I guess an idea could be for a group including Mark A to purchase a TV network highlighting Brewers, Packers, Bucks, etc. and "work a deal" to show all of the Brewers games. Get the network onto DirectTV, Dish Network and local Cable networks and benefit from dual ownership like YES and NESN. He'd have until the current deal is up to get the network up & running and get the deals signed.

[Principessa21]

I understand the Yankees have an advantage and that fans are frustrated, but what do you expect them to do? Give away money for parity? The problem is where do you go from here. I think the focus should be on the other end, the ones taking advantage of the system. The ones complaining of a salary cap would never agree to a salary floor. I know this doesn't apply directly to the Brewers but as an example:

The Royals’ revenue sharing proceeds have doubled since 2002, while their payroll has increased only 6% annually. Similarly, the Tampa Bay Rays (formerly, the Tampa Bay Devil Rays) decreased their payroll from $35 million in 2006 to $24 million in 2007, even though they received $30 million in revenue sharing.

[jerichoholicninja]

I understand the Yankees have an advantage and that fans are frustrated, but what do you expect them to do? Give away money for parity? The problem is where do you go from here. I think the focus should be on the other end, the ones taking advantage of the system. The ones complaining of a salary cap would never agree to a salary floor. I know this doesn't apply directly to the Brewers but as an example:

The Royals’ revenue sharing proceeds have doubled since 2002, while their payroll has increased only 6% annually. Similarly, the Tampa Bay Rays (formerly, the Tampa Bay Devil Rays) decreased their payroll from $35 million in 2006 to $24 million in 2007, even though they received $30 million in revenue sharing.

And the Rays are one of the best teams and franchises in baseball and also compete against the Yankees. Competence trumps pocket books.

[Principessa21]

Exactly. The anger is misdirected.

[Schlitz001]

ESPN's "Outside the Lines" is going to do a short piece on this today.

[Teatoe993]

Wondering if it'll be like those rapper beef specials they show on BET.

[Schlitz001]

ESPN's "Outside the Lines" is going to do a short piece on this today.

Well that was not worth watching. One of the panelists tried to explain that the payroll makes no difference if you don't have "good baseball people" as evidenced by the fact that the Yankees didn't win a World Series in the '80. I guess that explains it. Now lets get some "good baseball people" in our front office and start winning some World Series.

[SeriesFinale]

Yeah, Joe Buck said something similar about "good baseball people" on Rome this morning.

 

Sure seems like no one actually listened to what Mark A actually said.

[brains and braun]

Why would those people want to listen when they are clearly part of the problem. Just like most everything else in life, the haves are very happy with the current system, have no incentive to change it, and thus things stay the same.

[Invader3K]

Well, I guess an idea could be for a group including Mark A to purchase a TV network highlighting Brewers, Packers, Bucks, etc. and "work a deal" to show all of the Brewers games. Get the network onto DirectTV, Dish Network and local Cable networks and benefit from dual ownership like YES and NESN. He'd have until the current deal is up to get the network up & running and get the deals signed.

I've been wondering for a while if the Brewers, Bucks, and possibly Packers could pool their resources together and form their own TV network. I know it was tried like 20 years ago and failed, but this is a different era now.

[jeffy]

TooLiveBrew wrote: Would folks rather the Yankees just spend less money & make more profit for the sake of parity?

Yes!

[jeffy]

There is a huge difference between the Yankees and even the other wealthy teams. The Yankees have $441 million in revenue, in second place is the Mets with $268 million. The league average is $197 million (or $188 million for all teams that are not the Yankees). So while some teams have 30% above average revenue, the Yankees are in a class by themselves with 2.35 times the revenue average of other teams.

http://web.yesnetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100407&content_id=9124176&vkey=1&oid=

[kramnoj]

The Red Sox could absolutely spend dollar-for-dollar with the Yankees if they wanted to, and I'd venture to guess the Cubs & maybe another two or three teams could as well.

 

Since these teams can absolutely do this, can you demonstrate how? It just doesn't make any sense. New York is larger, and richer. Without a cap, of course they will be able to outspend other teams. Forbes from last year has the Red Sox with $269M in revenue, with $25.7M in operating income. We saw the Red Sox raise payroll this year, but it isn't clear at all that they could support a $200M+ payroll.

 

The YES network rakes in $400 million net every year.

 

Do you have a cite for this? I see a NY Times article from 2008 that says that YES has $400 million in revenue (not net) and that the Yankees own 38% of YES.

[pretendastronaut]

Good news, we can easily afford Prince (and some more pitchers)!

 

A combination of published accounts and common sense would have the Brewers pulling in at least $200 million in 2009, between baseball’s general fund ($40 million), revenue sharing ($30 million), local revenues ($20 million) and game revenues (3 million fans at about $40 a head). They meet their payroll (about $80 million), operate the rest of the franchise (draft picks, international signings, regular overhead costs, insurance payments) and pay off the debt from purchasing the franchise, and that would seem to leave plenty left for Fielder (and, hey, maybe a couple pitchers).

 

No, the Brewers can’t operate like the Yankees or Red Sox or even the Cubs. But, Attanasio didn’t buy one of those teams. He bought the Brewers, in little Milwaukee.

 

They buy in. They know the rules. The Yankees and Red Sox and other large markets charge more for tickets, draw more fans, make more in their television deals and have wider and faster-running revenue streams. They always do.

 

The rest survive. And they count their money when the Yankees and Red Sox come to town. And they make their profits when the game is robust and people turn on their televisions to watch, if only to root against the powerhouse Yankees and Red Sox.

 

Brewers can’t cry foul over Fielder

[vacin8r]

Im confused. I understand the arguments many have made in an effort to try to balance payroll in baseball. The thought being that if every team is on a level playing field, you need to make smart baseball decisions in order to succeed. I have not seen a single intelligent argument for the other side. I see people saying that the Yankees are the Yankees and they deserve the best talent. I see people saying how the Yankees have the best fans. I see people saying how the Yankees give other teams money so whatever they do should be OK. These are all dumb arguments.

 

I assume beaseball doesnt have salary equality because the teams that want it most cannot defeat a powerful players union and/or the big market owners that feel that without virtual all star teams they wouldnt survive in their markets. I also assume baseball does not want a situation like the New York Knicks where a team is terrible in its biggest market. Maybe they also feel that by creating this us vs them mentality it automatically creates greater interest in the product, an Us vs Them mentality so to speak. No one ever tries to make these arguments though.

 

It is always the same. The Yankees share revenue. They operate within the rules of the game. Suck it up. Can the Brewers afford Fielder? Sure we can. The problem is that if a team like the Brewers spend $20mm+ on one player and he gets hurt, they go from a $80-90mm payroll that has a chance to be competative to a $60mm team with no shot. If ARod got hurt, the Yankees still have Tex, CC, Jeter, Granderson, etc. The argument the small markets make isnt that they CANNOT afford stars, it is that they have 0 room for error if they wish to remain competative.

 

I challenge any one of these sports writers who take the yankees side to a competition. We play fantasy baseball every year for $1000 entry fee. It functions as any league does, except I get the 1st 5 picks, and then the draft goes on as a normal snake draft until the end where I sacrifice my picks in the last 4 rounds. It is likely that I do not win every year. But I will profit more than everyone else im sure. If they are OK with that, I have no problem with them taking the Yankees side.

 

Rant over for know... Im sure Ill come up with more points that tick me off later:)

 

[brains and braun]

What he fails to mention is that there is no "market value" for players that the big boys want. (see Sabathia, C.C.) And that the Yankees are like the fat kid in the candy store with the 'rents credit card.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

Do you have a cite for this? I see a NY Times article from 2008 that

says that YES has $400 million in revenue (not net) and that the Yankees

own 38% of YES.

 

http://money.cnn.com/2007/08/01/news/companies/yes_sale.fortune/index.htm

 

This older article says 36%. Tough to know for sure since it isn't completely disclosed and there may have been some movement between the partners, especially the Yankees increasing their ownership from Goldman.

 

I have seen some projections of YES for 2010 having 440+ million in Revs and about 190+ million in cash flow. A fair estimate of fees paid to the Yankees from the YES Network could be up to 50% of expenses or $125 million. A range of $100-125 is probably a decent estimate since they do pay for other rights. That's $175-200 million in attributed TV cash flow to the Yanks. Not only do the Yankees have a higher payroll of $200 million, they earn by far the most profit.

 

There likely isn't enough revenue in Milwaukee and Wisconsin to support a stand alone network. Fox understands the break point for any market of starting their own and pays a license fee accordingly. There are a great deal of expenses involved and efficiencies from having a national network that Fox can take advantage of. That's also why The Big Ten partnered with Fox for the BTN, they couldn't have launched it without them. Only the largest and most unique markets could overcome that overhead and market clout, like New York with YES. It would take a j.v. between the Brewers, Bucks and probably a Time Warner to get it done. If it was that easy, you'd see it in larger markets first.

[kramnoj]

Not only do the Yankees have a higher payroll of $200 million, they earn by far the most profit.

 

What do you mean by profit? Because parasites like the Marlins earn the most profit. Forbes estimated last year that the Yankees had negative operating income, and despite the empty protestations of some, nobody has taken the time to disprove that.

 

Edit:

 

Interesting timing, as apparently the new Forbes numbers are out, and with the New Stadium, the Yankees were estimated to have had $24.9M in operating income, but that still isn't the most, with at least 5 teams ahead of them. It should also be noted that even with the new profit, the Yankees payroll went up marginally, let Damon walk, and is starting Brett Gardner in LF.

[topper09er]

What he fails to mention is that there is no "market value" for players that the big boys want. (see Sabathia, C.C.)

Exactly, yankee fans act like this is a free market economy where all things being equal whatever you are willing to pay for something is what its worth like there is some kind of supply/demand arguemt there. One of the principal concepts of capitalism is that companies must be able to compete equally for it to work, hence monopolies are illegal. CC Sabathia had no value as a free agent, no matter what any team decided was the most they could possibly afford to pay for him (his value in their eyes) the yankees will just offer more. It is not possible for a player that the yankees want to have a "value" because all they will do is pay more than the next team for him. The only time they dont get a player is when some other teams beats them to an offer first, like A-rod to the rangers. The yankees were just waiting around thinking about what some other team will offer and how much more they will go and then the rangers offer him $250 mil and Boras is like I dont care about any more negotiating we are taking this deal now. And of course the Yankees are now the team actaully paying him for that contract.

 

There is hope though, because Bud Selig has wisely aranged that all internet revenue is shared equally among all teams and in the future everyone will be getting their TV over the internet. Boy that will be a great day when everyone in milwaukee and manhattan have google television and the brewers and yanks get the same amount of money from TV.

[Thurston Fluff]

I think we can fix this. All that needs to be done is allow any team who is on a small market to move to NY. Lets see how well the Yankees do when they have to compete with six or seven teams in their market. One for each borough and maybe New Jersey could have one as well. Oh wait. They can't because the Yankees/Mets have territorial rights to the city. IF they want to say they made the right choice of what franchise to buy so too bad for us then others should be able to tap that market. After all it isn't a business it's a sport. Congress says so. Every team should have the right to move wherever they feel is the biggest market for them.

I guess a sense of entitlement is natural when you inherit what you have vs work for it.

[burnzy24]

Keith Law has been discussing this issue at quite a bit during a chat today, for those who may be interested. He does not agree with Attanasio at all Link

[logan82]

The Pirates GM was just on Mike and Mike and explained his payroll will gradually rise as the talent does. He wants to spend money wisely instead of just throwing away overspending on free agents. He went on to say they spend all the money they get on developing talent. He mentioned they spent the most on drafted players over the last 2 years. He also mentioned building a baseball academy somewhere(I forget where). He explained that they had to do things this way and the MLBPA probably would prefer the money be spent at the MLB level. I makes sense to me that they would spend money this way because that is what they have to do to become and remain competitive.

[Invader3K]

Ouch (slightly off topic):

Todd (WI)

To be fair to Attanasio, he kinda got screwed on the Corey Hart contract

 

Klaw

Why? Because he forgot to non-tender him in December?