Gomez or Weeks as leadoff?

[CheezWizHed]

Ok, one rule for discussion here: Gomez and Weeks must be one of the first two batters. Whether Gomez should be up there has already been discussed elsewhere.

 

I was looking at the box score this morning and started wondering if Gomez should be leading off with Weeks second? No, the 4-5 yesterday didn't influence my decision.

 

If he is going to be up there, why not bat him first? The chance for extra ABs over Weeks is pretty minimal. And he has more opportunity to steal (in front of Weeks instead of Braun).

 

Pros for Gomez leading off:

- More stealing opportunities with Weeks batting than with Braun. - This would be my main line of thinking.

- Weeks slugs better, so should have better RBI numbers than Gomez

 

Cons:

- Probably gets more fastballs hitting in front of Braun.

- Weeks finally (?) getting adjusted as lead-off

[RobDeer 45]

Gomez will not have a good enough OBP to bat leadoff and he's probably the better bunter so having him bat 2nd is where he should be as of now. I'd love to see Weeks bat in another spot but he's pretty darn good there now. Love both of these guys and I hope Gomez can continue to improve.

[CheezWizHed]

But does his OBP really make a difference batting 2nd instead of 1st?

 

...he's probably the better bunter so having him bat 2nd is where he should be as of now.

 

I'm guessing you mean that if he fails to bunt for a single with Weeks on, it would go as a sacrifice instead? That's a good point I hadn't thought of.

[GAME05]

i really prefer Weeks in a lower spot in the order to take more advantage of his power and ability to hit guys in, plus i think it suits his batting style more. but i agree that Gomez historically won't have the OBP skills necessary to hit leadoff, and so Gomez should either be second or seventh in the batting order.

[RobDeer 45]

CheezWizHed[/b]]I'm guessing you mean that if he fails to bunt for a single with Weeks on, it would go as a sacrifice instead? That's a good point I hadn't thought of.

Ya if we are going to play some small ball more often I like him bunting. Even if it is a sac bunt he's going to put heat on the defense to get him out. And he can try and bunt for a base hit as well and worst case scenario he moves him over. I just think those two at the top can cause some serious issues for teams.

 

I do agree that it would be nice to have Weeks lower in the lineup but right now he's pretty darn good there. He seems so comfortable at the plate, I love it!

 

 

[ThePurpleStorm]

I would definitely keep him where he's at. At least for a while until he gets some confidence going, because I think batting in front of Brauny is going to be a big bonus early on.

[Flood Pants]

Gomez is in the 2 spot for his ability to sacrifice, says Macha. That being said (not that I agree with it), that skill is useless at #1. I'm a big fan of Weeks at leadoff. His OBP and speed are good, but more importantly, his power is valuable there too. Hitting a double is as good as hitting a single and stealing a base (and less risky) and hitting a homerun is obviously best of all. Around the league, we're seeing teams rightly starting to value good power in the leadoff spot. ex. Sizemore, Granderson, Soriano.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

I'd love to drop Rickie in the order to 5 or 6. If he hits the way he did to open the season last year and generates the pop, he'd be better suited there. However, one game does not a season make. Both Gomez and Escobar could wind up in that slot at some point, but that's a great deal of pressure on those young guys. I think they are better off where they are for 2010. If they can raise that OBP and take advantage of their speed, they could wind up as better options at leadoff and maybe go 1/2.

[rluzinski]

Weeks is the much better hitter. Giving 20 Weeks ABs to Gomez makes little sense to me.

[derflotr]

I'd like Gomez and Escobar to get on well enough that they can both be up at the top with Rickie in the 5, but that's certainly wishful thinking.

[BADGERJOBOB]

Cheez-wiz is right on. Gomez should lead-off with Weeks batting second. Weeks is good at working the count which would allow Gomez more an opportunity to use his speed to steal second. Why have Gomez bunt Weeks over when Weeks and Gomez can get second on their own without giving up an out. I personally hate giving up outs unless it is late in games. Gomez gets neutered a bit with Brauny batting right after him. The key is can Gomez get on base. I would consider using the hot batter between Gomez and Escobar as the lead-off hitter with Weeks and his more power batting second.

[Gobias Industries]

I think Weeks is fine in the leadoff role. He'd drive a lot of people crazy in an "rbi spot" in the order because of how much he strikes out. And as we saw yesterday, he just gets on base. (3 times yesterday without squaring one pitch up)

 

Gomez obviously had a great day at the plate yesterday. I don't wanna be debbie downer here, but I think the real question is when are Gomez and Escobar gonna switch spots in the order. I just think Escobar is a much more polished hitter than Gomez right now.

[CheezWizHed]

Weeks is the much better hitter. Giving 20 Weeks ABs to Gomez makes little sense to me.

 

True, but then why do both of them get more ABs than Braun and Fielder? Baseball doesn't strictly follow the best hitter gets the most ABs concept. (Now leading off, Prince Fielder!) Personally, I like the idea that LaRussa had when Puhols hit third. Why not Weeks-Braun-Fielder? And I was also against Kendall hitting 9th for the same reason. But I digress.

 

I'm also having some problems with the "his OBP isn't good enough for leadoff" idea. Again, the whole premise of the question is framed in the fact that Weeks/Gomez hit in the first two spots. So will those 18-20 ABs matter enough?

 

Weeks career OBP is 0.058 better than Gomez (.352 vs .294). Over 20 ABs, that is about one more time on base. Lets say he attempts 12 more steals at a 75% rate: 9 steals, 3 CS. Is that worth the 1 more time on base? How about 20 more times (15 success vs. 5 CS)?

 

Let me add that personally, I don't like Gomez in the top 2. But since he is there...

[southpaw121505]

Remind me why I should be worried about my #2 hitters bunting ability??

[topper09er]

His OBP and speed are good, but more importantly, his power is valuable there too. Hitting a double is as good as hitting a single and stealing a base (and less risky) and hitting a homerun is obviously best of all. Around the league, we're seeing teams rightly starting to value good power in the leadoff spot. ex. Sizemore, Granderson, Soriano.

I would disagree completely, the least valuable time to hit for power is with no one on base, which is why Braun/Fielder dont hit 1-2, because it is a waste for them to hit so many solo HRs after the pitcher strikes out. I think it is completely idiotic that the cubs hit Soriano 1 so they waste all of his HRs, look at some of his years, 39 HR/102 RBI; 38 HR/91 RBI; 46 HR/96 RBI!, total waste of that power. It would be sad to see Weeks hit 25 HR with only ~ 60 RBI when he would have more like 100 RBI with his power hitting in the 5 hole. As was said before the ideal situation is to have Gomez-Escobar 1-2 or 2-1 followed by Braun-Fielder-Weeks. As far as this discussion I definitely support Gomez 1 and Weeks 2.

[logan82]

As was said before the ideal situation is to have Gomez-Escobar 1-2 or 2-1 followed by Braun-Fielder-Weeks.

 

That is only true is Gomez and Escobar can get on base.

[topper09er]

After a little baseball-reference work here are the lowest RBI/HR ratios of all-time for players with 200 HR:

1) Mark McGwire 583/1414

2) Adam Dunn 316/777

3) Rob Deer 230/600 (my favorite player from the 80s brewers)

4) Barry Bonds 762/1996

5) Alfonso Soriano 290/760

[BrewCrewForever]

I'd like Gomez and Escobar to get on well enough that they can both be up at the top with Rickie in the 5, but that's certainly wishful thinking.

That would also be my best case scenario. I am not a big fan of Hart, McGehee or Edmonds batting behind Prince. I think Rickie would be best in the 5 hole. But it would be risky to have both Gomez and Escobar at the top at this point.

 

 

[joepepsi]

I think it would be a mistake to hit Rickie anywhere lower than 3rd. His on base skills would be wasted batting 5th.

 

Common sense seems to argue Gomez at leadoff, Rickie batting second, but until Gomez can show consistent on base skills keep it the way it is.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Here's a slightly different take on the discussion of who hits 1-2...why not bump Braun and Fielder up to hit 2-3, then slide Gomez down to the 9-hole and hit the pitcher 8th? You get more AB's for Braun and Fielder, plus you give Weeks more RBI opportunities from the leadoff spot with a guy like Gomez hitting 9th. Gomez's OBP won't justify him hitting in the 2 hole or leadoff, but when he's on base, Weeks is an ideal guy to hit after him to give Gomez opportunities to steal bases.

 

don't get me wrong - this lineup would look alot better with a better offensive option than Hart/Edmunds playing right field and hitting behind Fielder. Jermaine Dye from a few years ago would look great there.

 

Weeks

Braun

Fielder

Hart/Edmunds

McGehee

Escobar

Zaun

Pitcher

Gomez

 

On days when Gomez isn't playing you could slide Escobar in the 9 hole and play around with the 5-6-7 spots with Hart/Edmunds/Catcher. Batting the pitcher higher than 9th doesn't make sense in most cases, but the offensive pieces the Brewers have make for an interesting possibility - they have a few young guys with speed and low OBP who you can't count on at the top of the order, but when they do get on base you'd love to have the big boppers up to try and drive them in.

[CheezWizHed]

I think it would be a mistake to hit Rickie3 anywhere lower than 3rd. His on base skills would be wasted batting 5th.

 

I agree. With OBP at such a premium on our team, Weeks needs to stay up there. At least until other show they can at least match his OBP production.

[topper09er]

I think it would be a mistake to hit Rickie3 anywhere lower than 3rd. His on base skills would be wasted batting 5th.

But as I wrote earlier his slugging skills would be wasted batting 1st if he slugs .517 like he did over the first 40 games last season.

 

[WisconsinSportsRule]

Ideally, I'd love to have Rickie as the future 5, but there's so many problems if we do that. First, Gomez and Escobar have to show they can get on base consistently, which we haven't seen yet. I'll also add that I'd rather see Gomez lead off if he continues to hit well. Let Gomez use his speed instead of being scared to run with Braun and Prince coming up. Weeks can rack up more RBI's with Gomez hopefully on base. I think Rickie would tend to change his approach a little if he batted 5 instead of 1 or 2.

 

Now, it wouldn't make much sense to take Ab's away from Rickie if Gomez is really struggling to get on base, but it wouldn't be the worst thing if Gomez can get on and let Weeks bat behind him.

[Mr QL]

I wouldn't oppose moving Rickie down in the order so he could drive more runs in but I'm not sold on Gomez and or Escobar hitting at the top of the order.

[Baldkin]

But as I wrote earlier his slugging skills would be wasted batting 1st if he slugs .517 like he did over the first 40 games last season.

And Braun's and Prince's slugging skills would be wasted with two guys OBPing .300 in front of them. You don't put your two worst hitters #1 and #2 in the lineup just because they are fast. This isn't 1986 anymore.