What should be next for Hart? -- Latest: Platoon seems to be working (reply #137ish)

[Schlitz001]

Very well said AJAY, you summed up my feelings too.

 

The season hasn't even started yet and people are calling for Hart's head. He had a down year last year and his spring training has been disastrous, but shouldn't the fans get behind Hart and show him a little bit of encouragement? We need his 2007 performance this year more than ever if we want to contend. What are the alternative options? A 40 year old Jim Edmonds who hasn't put up 400 ABs since 2005? Jody Gerut, who also has never had a full time starting job and has a career OPS 30 points lower than Hart? Maybe Corey Hart would be better served in a platoon role, but shouldn't we at least let him hit for a few months to prove to us that he's worth his new contract. I'll be disappointed if Hart gets booed to start the season.

[JoeHova]

(5) a very demanding and punitive father

Wait, what? I haven't heard about this, what happened?

[TooLiveBrew]

If that's based on Hart's comments about having to live up to his arby contract, it's way exaggerated on AJAY's part. Hart was basically trying to laugh off the pressure of fan expectations by saying his dad was a much tougher critic than any fan.

[Schlitz001]

Here's a link to the article discussing "Hart's toughest critic."

[Invader3K]

What's with the reflexive player/agent bashing?

Supposedly he already turned down a deal around $3.5 million from the Cubs. If he's looking for that kind of money given his rapidly declining skills, and given the current market as far as veteran players, the criticism is warranted.

[pretendastronaut]

In a strange way, I hope he gets an extra nice ovation from the fans just to show some support. It sounds like he could really use a lift.

 

 

 

(Okay, I can't believe I just said that considering I am still furious about his arbitration hearing)

 

 

 

I was just telling someone else this morning that I really want to see Corey do well, but he is getting frustrating. That said, I really would like to see the fans try to help pick him up and give him a chance to turn it around, but I hold no faith of that happening. Hopefully we don't open the season with a round of boos for one of our own though. We'll see.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Can't say that I'd be on board with this move. Dye can no longer play an effective right field, whereas at least Edmonds can. For right now, I'd just be happy with giving Edmonds some starts out there to see what he does, and hopefully Hart can snap out of it. Dye also hasn't been through Spring Training, so we'd need to go through a month or so of rust with him, which wouldn't be productive either. I'd be interested in seeing what the Nationals offered for Hart though. That might sway my opinion a little bit.

[rluzinski]

It could be a matter where Melvin simply called Dye's agent, found out he was asking a crazy amount for his services, and then passed.

What's with the reflexive player/agent bashing?

Dye isn't signed because he's asking for more money than anyone else thinks he's worth. Seems like a fair statement.

[bobskube]

TooLiveBrew wrote

Fwiw, my comment you quoted had more to do with how annoying I find the quick trigger so many seem to have with the DFA/release calls. Not as much about Hart specifically.

Fair, people do pull out DFA far too quickly on here. A bit annoying. As far as Hart goes, I still stand pat. Sub .750 OPS guaranteed.

 

BTW, I never turned on Rick or Bushy. In fact, Rick will prove he is our 3rd best commodity this season at the plate. Bush is what he is...average #4 starter and that is it.

[patrickgpe]

i'd like to see what we would get for him. I don't really want to give up on him as he was an all star only 2 years ago. I know he has a terrible spring. Hopefully Edmonds and Gerut can hold down the fort while he gets his act together.

[Tbadder]

Jermaine Dye is a DH. I hope Melvin has really passed and is no longer thinking of this move. Edmonds/Gerut is clearly better in terms of production and money. Moving Hart would be best for him. He needs a new enviroment. The one he's in is a cesspool and to be fair, he doesn't have a chance. Maybe if he had decided against arby, and maybe accepted demotion to work on his game (if this was even possible). If he turned it around in AAA, I'd have no problems with calling him up and giving him a full chance to start. But he's Derrick-Turnbow-bad right now, and that's scary. Part of me does feel sorry for him, but a much larger part of me just thinks he dug his own grave.

[MNBrew]

Hart is totally lost at the plate and I don't see it coming back. I really see this ending bad sometime later in the year.

I like Hart but am no Hart apologist. In the middle of such a hideous slump as this, when a guy looks this lost, it never looks like it's coming back. But many of those guys still do find their clue again. I'm not saying Hart will. But there's no guarantee he won't, either.

 

Brewers history is loaded with guys like this. One that really stands out in my memory is Greg Vaughn. That dude went through some of the most ridiculously bad stretches, seriously ugly droughts (4-for-55 type things), in years where other than his HRs, he was pretty terrible (and nothing to speak of in LF defensively, either). Before '96, he only had two years playing full-time where he hit above the .240s, w/ 3 seasons in the .220s. Cripes, he would've never heard the end of it if boards like this existed then. Then he came back w/ years like '93 and especially (pre-trade) '96 where he was everything we hoped he'd be. And now so many comments about him looking back make it seem like he was one of the best Brewers from that time period. (In hindsight, Jeromy Burnitz was a FAR more consistent & productive Brewers OF.)

 

I sure hope Hart finds it. Given recent (read: Bill Hall) history, looking this badly lost, I don't think anyone can be sure he would. But Hart right now is like the hitting equivalent of De La Rosa in 2006. How many people now talk like giving up on him was such a heinous idea at the time?

[MNBrew]

I'd rather give Hart one more chance because he's eight years younger. If he falters, you go to Gerut or Edmonds, both of whom I think can put up numbers almost as good as Dye at the plate, without being complete butchers in right as Dye is.

Gerut was worse than Hart in the majors last year and it wasn't even close. Gerut's been terrible this spring, too. I really don't get where people think he can replace Hart's previously-normal production levels, whether as sole starter or as part of a platoon. The only things Gerut really has going for him are his team-first approach and solid glove.

 

Not singling just you, RoCo, 'cause plenty of posters talk like this. Your post just jumped out when my thinking hit this chord.

 

Sounds like way too many folks think Gerut can turn the page back to his '03 in Cleveland or his '08 of part-time play in SD. I don't believe the guy can be any better than that. Hart's average years in the past 4 were that good, and his good years blew those Gerut years away.

 

If Gerut doesn't start hitting any better, I'd gladly see him get dumped in favor of signing Dye. Dye pushes Hart in RF (no terrible dropoff defensively, based on everyone else's remarks) and Dye's '09 HRs & RBIs are right in line w/ Hart's career-best numbers. Edmonds still pushes Gomez in CF. Then it's fairly easy to bid farewell to Dye &/or Edmonds when the Cains, Schaefers, Haydels, Gindls, even Sterns have earned their way into the Miller Park home clubhouse. (Heck, I'd take Stern over Gerut right now!)

[RockCoCougars]

Gerut was worse than Hart in the majors last year and it wasn't even close. Gerut's been terrible this spring, too. I really don't get where people think he can replace Hart's previously-normal production levels, whether as sole starter or as part of a platoon. The only things Gerut really has going for him are his team-first approach and solid glove.

I completely agree, which is why I stated that I believe Hart should get another chance to try to get things together. I was more comparing Gerut and/or Edmonds to Dye. I just don't see how dropping $3-$4 million on a 36 year old who missed spring training, would be switching leagues, and has the fielding acumen of- well, a DH makes any sense.

 

I think I've said it before here, but it seems that this year, Hart has replaced Weeks as the 'rookie bust' whipping boy of this team for many fans. Last spring, many wanted to get rid of Weeks as well, and replace him with someone like Kelly Johnson. Hart has not been good since the all-star game, but come on, he hasn't been Turner Ward bad. Give him another chance to break out of things before you give him away in a trade in order to sign a 36 year old player who has 99% most likely seen his best years come and go.

[DHonks]

Hart has not been good since the all-star game, but come on, he hasn't been Turner Ward bad

 

wait. Ward was a part time player on some crappy Brewers teams. He played solid defense and did what he was paid to do. His OPS was not that far below Hart's, which is impressive considering nobody had heard of OPS at the time, and OBP was something most of us had never heard of. If Hart walked like Ward, I'd be happy!

 

Hart has been awful for 1.5 years. He has talent. What's crazy is that in his allstar campaign, he was arguably the Brewers' best hitter in the first half. Personally, I'd love to send Hart to AAA, as I think he needs to work on things while not costing the Brewers games

[logan82]

Gerut 7.0 WAR in 1918 PA

Hart 6.7 WAR in 2015 PA

[Invader3K]

I'd love to send Hart to AAA, as I think he needs to work on things while not costing the Brewers games

Not a horrible idea, but I'm pretty sure he doesn't have any options left.

[JohnBriggs12]

Jermaine Dye is a DH. I hope Melvin has really passed and is no longer thinking of this move. Edmonds/Gerut is clearly better in terms of production and money. Moving Hart would be best for him. He needs a new enviroment. The one he's in is a cesspool and to be fair, he doesn't have a chance. Maybe if he had decided against arby, and maybe accepted demotion to work on his game (if this was even possible). If he turned it around in AAA, I'd have no problems with calling him up and giving him a full chance to start. But he's Derrick-Turnbow-bad right now, and that's scary. Part of me does feel sorry for him, but a much larger part of me just thinks he dug his own grave.

Dye played 133 games in RF last year and 151 the year before. He had more put outs per game than Hart, more assists, and the White Sox pitchers had a much lower ERA (4.14) in the AL where the pitcher doesn't bat than the Brewers (4.83) did in the NL. He's never been a full time DH. He's still not a bad fielder. He's just very limited in range because he doesn't run well any more. He can still throw and catch balls he can get to. With the speed of Gomez flanking him to run balls down in the gap and the option to use defensive replacements late in games, they could get by. You would sit him in Petco and Coors because of their big outfields but otherwise I don't think he's as big a liability as he's being made out to be. Heck, the Rockies were a playoff team with Brad Hawpe patrolling RF in Coors. Hawpe certainly has no more range than Dye.

[RyDogg66]

Defense has become so important now that it is overrated in my opinion. If you can get a bat like Dye's and combine him with Edmonds I think we'd be just fine in RF.

[JohnBriggs12]

Defense has become so important now that it is overrated in my opinion. If you can get a bat like Dye's and combine him with Edmonds I think we'd be just fine in RF.

There's no defense that would have stopped any of the 207 HR the Brewer staff allowed last year.

[Funketown]

Defense has become so important now that it is overrated in my opinion. If you can get a bat like Dye's and combine him with Edmonds I think we'd be just fine in RF.

Even if that's true, Dye is still a major detriment to any club with his glove. If Dye were an Adam Dunn at the plate, I'd pull the trigger in an instant. However, he's more of a .260/.330/.470/.800 guy at the plate right now. I just don't see what is gained by bringing him in to platoon with Edmonds.

[Flood Pants]

Defense has become so important now that it is overrated in my opinion. If you can get a bat like Dye's and combine him with Edmonds I think we'd be just fine in RF.

Completely agree. While runs prevented do matter, most players have a lot more opportunities to contribute runs at the plate then to prevent runs on defense.

[FVBrewerFan]

Well, it's frightening that we're about to start the season and have no clue what kind of production we'll see from CF or RF. (SS and 3B aren't exactly clear either.) Hart strikes me as a Hall, Hardy, Turnbow, Parra type of player. The athletic ability to produce, but his head gets in the way. Best thing they could do is trade Hart and Parra, but I doubt Hart would bring back very much. So you let him play, and hope he can give you something. If he does get hot, by all means trade him then when his value is higher. Gerut is no answer, and Edmunds can't play full time so there are no other options at present. I'm all for bringing in Dye for a reasonable contract.

[Invader3K]

Even if that's true, Dye is still a major detriment to any club with his glove. If Dye were an Adam Dunn at the plate, I'd pull the trigger in an instant. However, he's more of a .260/.330/.470/.800 guy at the plate right now. I just don't see what is gained by bringing him in to platoon with Edmonds.

I agree. If Dye could be had on the cheap, and they could release Hart to save money for a mid-season move, then I think it could be worthwhile. However, every indication is that Dye would be almost as expensive as Hart. At that point, it just isn't much of a value.

 

I do wonder if Hart could possibly be dealt for some minor league pitching depth, and someone like Heether or Katin could split time with Edmonds and Gerut.

[MNBrew]

I do wonder if Hart could possibly be dealt for some minor league pitching depth, and someone like Heether or Katin could split time with Edmonds and Gerut.

Trading Hart now would be selling seriously low. They already did that with Hardy. Much as Hart's play is totally ugly at the plate right now, I'm not thinking trading him's a good way to go.

 

I like some of what I see in Katin, but it tells me something that the Brewers never once brought him over from minor league camp to fill in late innings, but they did so with lots of other young OFs.