What should be next for Hart? -- Latest: Platoon seems to be working (reply #137ish)

[thebruce44]

Hart hasn't been an average defender for 2 years. That being said, Dye brings a whole new definition to crappy defense.

[MJLiverock]

It hasn't been discussed much on here, but I suspect Attanasio is more meddling than we realize. We all remember it was dinner at the Attanasios that led to the signing of Suppan and he may be behind the keeping of Suppan.

Not to pick on your post but I have seen this bantered about a few times - - that Attanasio having dinner with Suppan is some proof he meddled or that he forced Melvin to sign Suppan. I can see the possible correlation but it appears to be just a likely a simple coincidence. Maybe Attanasio just wanted to meet the guy before committing big dollars to him at Melvin's request, maybe he just wanted to make sure the guy wasn't a jerk, maybe he really just happened to be in LA and it was a nice gesture, maybe Attanasio was just excited as a fan and owner for his first big free agent signing as relatively new owner.

 

I just don't see that having dinner with the guy before inking him is somehow proof Attanasio forced the deal. I have dinner all the time with prospective clients who want to meet me and my team before committing big dollars to my firm and in many cases nothing gets inked just a friendly meet and greet.

 

 

[endaround]

Suppan said that the Attanasio dinner is what made him choose Milwaukee

[dlk9s]

I think the obvious solution is to fire Attanasio.

[ELCABALLO45]

It sound like more and more that Edmonds will be starting in right on Monday. I find that a good thing.

[Hammer]

A random movie quote here in a question to Mr. Melvin: "That reminds me, I was going to ask you. What exactly *is* our team concept? "

Really, what *is* our teams approach going to be to our home grown players that can't cut it when they make it to the majors?

Can anyone name the movie without google/bing?

[razzzorsharp]

A random movie quote here in a question to Mr. Melvin: "That reminds me, I was going to ask you. What exactly *is* our team concept? "

Really, what *is* our teams approach going to be to our home grown players that can't cut it when they make it to the majors?

Can anyone name the movie without google/bing?

Major League

[bobskube]

This board is just way too quick with the 'release/DFA him!' stuff. It's a new player every season.

I begged for Bill Hall for three years and got it (basically a DFA minus a couple hundred thousand.)

 

DFA may be a bit strong for Hart (because I'm sure someone thinks he is decent) but I would gladly trade his salary for a bag of balls. Let's see what happens this year TLB and see who is right. Hart is totally lost at the plate and I don't see it coming back. I really see this ending bad sometime later in the year.

 

What do you predict he will do this year?

[TooLiveBrew]

And people begged for a release of Weeks. And Bush. Corey Hart played well in the minors, Bill Hall did not. There was definite reason to suspect Hall's '06 was a fluke. Coincidentally, the player Hall reminds me of (little success in the minors, then out-of-nowhere success in MLB) is McGehee... who's also stunk up this Spring Training. I'm aware that the difference btw. Hart's & McGehee's reception is largely salary, but let's not pretend it isn't also 'what have you done for me lately'. No one's calling for McGehee's release.

 

I think Hart will post an OPS in the upper .700s with regular playing time. If he's only really used against lefties (& doesn't sulk in a part-time role), it's probably more reasonable to expect it to be over .800. Going by month last season, his OPS totals were .873 (coming off a disappointing '08 season), .626, .785, .832, .250, .660. Of course the guy had an emergency appendectomy & missed basically all of August (3 ABs) & almost half of September. Prior to the surgery, that's one bad month, two good months, & one so-so month at the plate. So now he's had a rough ST -- I'm supposed to weigh that heavier than his track record & omit that his injury last season clearly dragged his production down? His slash line at the end of last July was .266/.336/.437/.773. That's roughly what I'd expect from him playing most of the time. All the major projection systems, including the fans' take at FanGraphs, project Hart in the upper .700s in terms of OPS.

 

Fwiw, my comment you quoted had more to do with how annoying I find the quick trigger so many seem to have with the DFA/release calls. Not as much about Hart specifically.

[RobDeer 45]

In a JSonline article Hart talked about trying a bunch of different stances this spring trying to find something that works and makes him feel comfortable. More evidence to me that his mind has failed him. I understand that people tinker but when you are tinkering every day you are in trouble. He's looking for the magic answer and he's not going to find it.

 

Didn't think I'd say it but Go Edmonds!

[MJLiverock]

Suppan said that the Attanasio dinner is what made him choose Milwaukee

Not to hijack the thread by delving further down this road but that still doesn't have any proof or real substance that Attansio forced Melvin to do the deal or even meddled. All that shows is that it contributed to Suppan agreeing to the deal that was offered by the Brewers. i.e He was offered a pile of money, met the owner who lives nearby and thought he was a decent guy with nice plans or maybe the pile of money wasn't offest by a jerk owner. I just don't see having dinner with a potential free agent signing as any proof of meddling or focing the deal by either side. It just seems like one of those conspiracy theories that point to minor things as proof a grander scheme or plot.

 

Meet and greet dinners happen all the time in the business world and a contract negotiation like this is really just another business deal, almost like a job interview from both sides. When my company hires a receptionist, I don't meet the person, when we are hiring for a VP level person for high dollars I meet the candidates, have lunch, make sure they fit, etc, but I also didn't give the approval to who got that far or force HR on who their final 3 candidates end up being. Before I commit big dollars to someone, especially a new person or as the first time doing so, I would want to meet them. As time goes by the may fade as the trust in the GM is built or comfort level of being an owner builds.

 

 

[Invader3K]

MJLiverock makes a good point. People have to remember that at the time that the Brewers still weren't considered much of a "legit" MLB franchise. Suppan probably at least partly wanted to know the team was serious about being competitive, not just offering him a bunch of money to make a token free agent signing (though certainly the dollar amount was the deciding factor). Meeting with the owner likely helped, but I don't see it as being that unusual, or being a sign of a meddling owner.

 

I just don't believe that Attanasio totally high jacked the team because he was so enamored with Jeff Suppan after helping the Cards win the World Series, as some suggest. We also have to remember how hard up for starting pitching the team had been at the time.

 

As far as Hart, I keep going back to how much sense it makes to pay a bench player over $4 million, when cheaper options are available. Jermaine Dye might not be the answer, but there are guys in AAA who could probably complement Gerut and Edmonds for a much lower price point.

[monty57]

To be fair, I doubt Hart will be a bench player, but he could well be the RH part of a platoon, which would mean he'd spend a lot of days on the bench. Your point is well taken: is it worth spending that much money on someone who may get less than 300 PAs this season?

 

I'll stick with my long-standing assertion that he should be platooned with Gerut/Edmonds this season and will not be offered arby after the season, as he would be paid $7-8MM next year because of the "automatic raise" arby would give him. He'll sign on with someone else next season and the Brewers will move on with younger and cheaper talent.

 

If we hear in July that we can't afford some key addition that would cost us $3-4MM, then I will be upset that we held on to Hart. If that truly would be the case, then we should dump him now. However, I think Melvin budgets in "Mid-season additions" when he puts a team together, so I don't think holding on to Hart will stop us from adding talent mid-season if we're in the playoff race.

[TooLiveBrew]

And if Hart comes out of the gates like he did last season, he'd be trade-able

[Invader3K]

If we hear in July that we can't afford some key addition that would cost us $3-4MM, then I will be upset that we held on to Hart. If that truly would be the case, then we should dump him now. However, I think Melvin budgets in "Mid-season additions" when he puts a team together, so I don't think holding on to Hart will stop us from adding talent mid-season if we're in the playoff race.

That is a big crux of my concern. If this team is in contention, they may need to make a move again to put them "over the hump". $3-4 million extra in available budget could make a big difference at that point.

[monty57]

But there is a definite possibility that having Hart on the team instead of Stern/Katin/Cain could gain us an extra win or two, which could be the difference in making the playoffs or not. I'm not real high on Hart, but he does have some talent, and is likely to be a decent (if overpaid) RH part of a platoon. It's definitely not a cut-and-dried decision, as there are "warts" on all options. If we had an in-house option that could come in and rake against lefties for $400k, I'd be all over dumping Hart. However, we don't have that option right now (we probably will with prospect progression next season). In addition to my above-quoted post, I'd also hate to see us dump Hart for nothing, have him join another team and post a .780-.800 OPS and see us miss the playoffs by a couple games because of a black hole in RF. If I was certain that Hart was finished, it would be an easy decision. However, Hart was a good player not too long ago, and has not had any injury that would limit his physical abilities. Therefore, he should be able to bounce back... it's just far from certain that he will. As it stands right now, Hart is probably our best option for the right handed bat in RF.

 

If we make the move and sign someone like Dye, we would probably have to pay more than the $3.8MM we'd save by dumping Hart. This may make us better, or it may not, and Dye would have to be willing to accept the role of part-time RF that would be pinch hit for late in games. I'd be shocked if Melvin hasn't considered this option, and since Dye isn't wearing a Brewers' uniform right now, I'd guess Melvin didn't think the benefit would be worth the cost. In my opinion, our best non-Hart option would probably be to let Cain get his feet wet as a part-time RF. However, I'd like to see Cain get a little more post-injury time in the minors to make sure he's ready to step up to the majors. In other words, let him come up later in the season if Hart is floundering, and slate him in as the full time RF next year after Hart isn't offered arby.

[Invader3K]

Well, here's some fuel to the fire, courtesy of MLB Trade Rumors:

The Brewers made a run at free agent outfielder Jermaine Dye within the last week, report Ken Rosenthal and Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports, but the talks reached an impasse for unknown reasons.

 

The FOX writers say the Brewers are unhappy with Corey Hart, and might've tried trading him if they'd signed Dye. Brewers GM Doug Melvin told WSSP 1250 a few days ago that Hart might not have right field locked up, with Jim Edmonds in the mix. Rosenthal and Morosi say Melvin discussed Hart with the Nationals.

[endaround]

If Rosenthal says it it has a 10% chance of being true.

[Invader3K]

It could be a matter where Melvin simply called Dye's agent, found out he was asking a crazy amount for his services, and then passed.

[MJLiverock]

Briggs should be happy to hear they apparently tried for Dye. I think he has posted they should at least look at Dye a number of times.

[battlekow]

Witrado:

“I can’t really comment on that,” Melvin said. “Things get involved

with players and everything. I don’t know where people get this stuff.

Probably agents and other front office officials. … They’re not calling

me on it. ... I don’t feel comfortable talking about it.”

Make of that what you will, but it wasn’t a flat-out denial, but it

wasn’t a clear admission that those talks had occurred, either. Chances

are, however, that if there was no such talks went down, Melvin would

just come out and say the reports have zero truth to them.

 

 

[JoeHova]

It could be a matter where Melvin simply called Dye's agent, found out he was asking a crazy amount for his services, and then passed.

What's with the reflexive player/agent bashing?

[igor67]

Considering Melvin's past use of very declarative sounding statements, when there was in fact still something going on it's hard to interpret that as anything other than he at least put a call in of some kind. Why things didn't go anywhere is hard to say.

[RockCoCougars]

Unless Dye is willing to take an Edmonds-like contract with no guarantee of playing time, I don't like the idea one bit. I'd rather give Hart one more chance because he's eight years younger. If he falters, you go to Gerut or Edmonds, both of whom I think can put up numbers almost as good as Dye at the plate, without being complete butchers in right as Dye is.

[AJAY]

So as of now, Corey Hart is dealing with the following: (1) Being in the doghouse with fans because of his arbitration case and declining performance, (2) A GM and a manager who seem to be very frustrated with him, (3) Jim Edmonds breathing down his neck and possibly forcing him to the bench, (4) Trade rumors (5) a very demanding and punitive father, (6) a probable loss of self-confidence and self-esteem, and (7) unresolved vision issues.

 

That can't be fun for anyone. Even though I am still furious he took the team to arbitration, I kind of feel bad for what he is going through personally. I really hope he has the mental makeup to deal with all this. If he could just find a way to hit the ball well again, all this goes away.

 

In a strange way, I hope he gets an extra nice ovation from the fans just to show some support. It sounds like he could really use a lift.

 

(Okay, I can't believe I just said that considering I am still furious about his arbitration hearing)

 

I guess I am confused now.