Rotation Battle 2.0 -- Latest: Suppan Named 5th Starter

[joepepsi]

It seems Parra may be the odd man out since this is his second appearance in a row coming in mid-game.

[MNBrew]

It seems Parra may be the odd man out since this is his second appearance in a row coming in mid-game.

Odd man out for the rotation? Pretty obviously, yes. And no big deal. He had some success out of the 'pen that first year when he came up (granted, limited sample, but that's all we have to go on).

[jimmyjeromehardy7]

Somehow it scares me that Suppan is pitching in a minor league game, they have his career to base the decision on and he's proved he is a ML pitcher and deserving of the 5th spot. It seems like Macha likes to keep things close to the vest or just has no idea what he is doing yet with a week to go. Same with the batting order, when is that going to be settled?

[Ennder]

Most teams use like 100 different batting orders throughout the season, it is never settled~. As an example the Yankees used 106 different lineups in 2009 and never used the same lineup more than 15 times and that is a veteran team. The Brewers used 109 different orders last year and the most they used the same lineup was 8 games.

[Funketown]

Somehow it scares me that Suppan is pitching in a minor league game, they have his career to base the decision on and he's proved he is a ML pitcher and deserving of the 5th spot. It seems like Macha likes to keep things close to the vest or just has no idea what he is doing yet with a week to go. Same with the batting order, when is that going to be settled?

The decision wouldn't be based on Suppan's minor league start, it would be based on the last 400 innings he's thrown.

[UeckerAddict]

Just curious: Does that 109 different lineups include the pitcher's spot, or is it 1-8?

[jimmyjeromehardy7]

Somehow it scares me that Suppan is pitching in a minor league game, they have his career to base the decision on and he's proved he is a ML pitcher and deserving of the 5th spot. It seems like Macha likes to keep things close to the vest or just has no idea what he is doing yet with a week to go. Same with the batting order, when is that going to be settled?

The decision wouldn't be based on Suppan's minor league start, it would be based on the last 400 innings he's thrown.

That is what I was trying to say but not so clear. What scares me is that they have decided he is the 5th starter so they don't need to see him pitch to ML batters tomorrow.

 

[Ennder]

Just curious: Does that 109 different lineups include the pitcher's spot, or is it 1-8?

It counts all pitchers as one slot, so if you hit the pitcher 8th it is a different lineup but if you switch to a different pitcher it isn't. Very few teams use less than 90 different lineups in a season, it is almost always 100+ when I look.

[MNBrew]

More on Macha's Suppan remarks earlier, courtesy of TH's latest blog entry. So even if it's purely idle speculation, there's obviously something about how it came across that struck the beat writers as quite different from the norm, and therefore worthy of such speculation:

Macha said Parra and Narveson will split the Brewers' exhibition game

Tuesday against the Los Angeles Angels. But, when asked what Suppan

would be doing that day, Macha said, "Hopefully, I'll be able to answer

that tomorrow. That's my best answer."

That cryptic response made reporters wonder if something is going on

with Suppan, if perhaps the Brewers are thinking about not keeping him

despite his $12.5 million salary in 2010. An official from another club

said he had not seen Suppan's name on the release waiver wire, so that

process apparently had not begun.

Maybe it's nothing more than having to wait until Tuesday to hear

that Suppan is pitching in a minor league game to get his work in. But

usually a pitcher, especially a veteran pitcher, knows what his

assignment is the day before he's scheduled to pitch.

Let's just say some red flags went up with Macha's response to that

question.

[Invader3K]

Yeah, it definitely seems odd that he wouldn't just come out and say, "He's pitching in the minor league game," if that was the case. Then again, maybe he just has something like a slight muscle strain and may end up sitting out tomorrow?

[Funketown]

Somehow it scares me that Suppan is pitching in a minor league game, they have his career to base the decision on and he's proved he is a ML pitcher and deserving of the 5th spot. It seems like Macha likes to keep things close to the vest or just has no idea what he is doing yet with a week to go. Same with the batting order, when is that going to be settled?

The decision wouldn't be based on Suppan's minor league start, it would be based on the last 400 innings he's thrown.

That is what I was trying to say but not so clear. What scares me is that they have decided he is the 5th starter so they don't need to see him pitch to ML batters tomorrow.

I hadn't even thought of that, to be honest. I've got a pretty good feeling that Suppan won't crack the rotation given Narveson's strong spring and Parra's upside.

[brewtank34]

Is there any possibility that they are working both Narveson and Parra to showcase one of them for a possible trade, while keeping Suppan fresh in Minors?

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Keeping Suppan fresh. Ha.

[recte44]

Adam thinks something might be up as well..... http://bit.ly/bPm9zH

[DHonks]

I'm wondering if the Brewers might be trying to send Suppan to AAA (much like Steve Trachsel some years ago). He'd have to clear waivers AND accept the assignment, but it might be best for all parties. He'd go to AAA, hopefully find his stuff, and pitch his way back to the Brewers or into being traded.

 

Of course, I've also thought that perhaps they should send Hart to AAA and let Gerut and Edmonds share RF for now while Corey figures it out.

[RockCoCougars]

I don't see what good it will do the Brewers or Suppan to send him down to AAA. First of all, why would Suppan toil in AAA when he could go home and hang out with his family in the restaurant and still get paid? It's not like he's a young guy who has any hope of getting another big contract, this is likely his last year in the league, unless he wants to take a camp invite next year for the league minimum. As for the Brewers, I don't think they have any need for his skill set at this point, better to just cut ties. Hopefully, they make the best decision for all involved and release him.

[DHonks]

RockCoCougar, Suppan wants to pitch, and the Brewers want some return on their 2010 investment. It would make sense to at least try my proposal. He could refuse it and get a job elsewhere, but he's settle in Milwaukee and may be intrigued be it. He'd get his money either way

[MNBrew]

RoCo & DHonks, I think you're missing the strategy. Unless I'm mistaken (and I could be), Suppan refusing the assignment if he's sent to AAA would mean choosing to walk away from the remainder of his contract.

 

Oila! The Brewers are suddenly in $14.5M's worth of better shape!

 

It just may be a strategy worth pursuing. It's been pretty clear (reading between the lines) that Suppan would've been cut quite a while ago if it weren't for his absurdly onerous contract.

[Mass Haas]

RoCo & DHonks, I think you're missing the strategy. Unless I'm mistaken (and I could be), Suppan refusing the assignment if he's sent to AAA would mean choosing to walk away from the remainder of his contract.

You're mistaken, multi-year deals are guaranteed, and Suppan's service time obviously allows him to refuse the assignment and walk back to Soup's Grill.

 

 

[logan82]

Probably Macha just being tired of answering pitching questions every day. Idle speculation on a slow news day but I will play anyway.

 

The somebody who will be disappointed last week was Suppan being told that he would be in the pen. We didn't get any news after that because Suppan immediately demanded a trade. Melvin has since been working on trading Suppan to somewhere he would get to start. Of course we are going to have to eat approx. $14.4M of what he is owed including the buyout.

[MNBrew]

RoCo & DHonks, I think you're missing the strategy. Unless I'm mistaken (and I could be), Suppan refusing the assignment if he's sent to AAA would mean choosing to walk away from the remainder of his contract.

You're mistaken, multi-year deals are guaranteed, and Suppan's service time obviously allows him to refuse the assignment and walk back to Soup's Grill.

 

But doesn't it work that if he refuses the assignment, in effect, he elects free agency, which, since it was HIS choice, by doing so, therefore forfeits the remainder of his contract?

 

I know we've heard that verbiage many times. If it's not applicable in Suppan's case, a) why not?, and b) in what cases would that apply?

[RockCoCougars]

But doesn't it work that if he refuses the assignment, in effect, he elects free agency, which, since it was HIS choice, by doing so, therefore forfeits the remainder of his contract?

 

I know we've heard that verbiage many times. If it's not applicable in Suppan's case, a) why not?, and b) in what cases would that apply?

Unfortunately, that's not the case. With all guaranteed contracts like Suppan's, the signing team is basically on the hook. They can't straight outright him to the minors because he has over 5 years service time and can refuse while still collecting his salary (Hall could have done the same thing last year, but showed a good deal of class and accepted the assignment). This forces the teams hand to either keep the player on the active roster or let them hit free agency while paying their salary. The only way that the Brewers could theoretically get their money back would be if Suppan was DFA'd and another team claimed him and took on his salary for 2010. We all know that the odds of that happening are slightly less than the Brewers going 162-0 this season.

[Fatter than Joey]

It's been pretty clear (reading between the lines) that Suppan would've been cut quite a while ago if it weren't for his absurdly onerous contract.

 

If this was the NFL, where contracts are not guaranteed, Suppan would have been cut months ago, he wouldn't have made it to ST.

 

I know we've heard that verbiage many times. If it's not applicable in Suppan's case, a) why not?, and b) in what cases would that apply?

 

There are 2 benchmarks in the service time -- If a player has 3 years of service time, he can refuse an assignment, and become a FA, if a player has 5 years of service time, he can refuse an assignment and get paid the terms of his contract for sitting at home.

[Flood Pants]

MNBrew, I imagine you're thinking back to a couple of years ago when they sent Turnbow to AAA. He had a non-guaranteed contract, and electing not to accept the assignment would have meant turning down his salary. Unfortunately, not the case with Suppan.

[JohnBriggs12]

Haudricourt's blog certainly could be intepreted that he thinks Soup is cooked. I certainly will be checking back a lot today.