Rotation Battle 2.0 -- Latest: Suppan Named 5th Starter

[logan82]

I wouldn't be to upset is Narveson gets the 5th spot instead of Parra.(yup I am blocking the possibility of Suppan getting the 5th spot out of my mind) I am a little leery of a guy who has only put up a good September and a good spring though.

[And That]

I'm not too leery of Narveson - the guy used to be as big of prospect as Parra, isn't that much older than Parra, and still throws hard for a lefty. I think he'd be fine as a 5th starter, in fact maybe one of the best 5th starters in the league if he stayed in that spot all season.

[yount19.u]

I have tickets to the April 15 game at Wrigley, the debut game for the #5 starter, so I selfishly want Narveson or Parra in the rotation, because I really don't want to drive 3+ hours to watch Suppan get knocked around. I'm really pulling for Narveson, the guy was a big time prospect for the Cardinals before injuries, and did great as a starter in September, I'd love to see what he does with a chance in the rotation, I think he is a real candidate to have a breakout season.

If Suppan is the 5th starter, I'd advise you to sell your tickets and lock yourself in a dark room with no tv for that day. Trust me, it will be better than watching the inevitable in front of thousands of Cubs fans.

[Tbadder]

I'll say it again, for the umpteenth time, cut Suppan and keep your best pitchers. I think players appreciate the message. If you're good enough you'll stick.

[PrinceFielderx1]

I have tickets to the April 15 game at Wrigley, the debut game for the #5 starter, so I selfishly want Narveson or Parra in the rotation, because I really don't want to drive 3+ hours to watch Suppan get knocked around. I'm really pulling for Narveson, the guy was a big time prospect for the Cardinals before injuries, and did great as a starter in September, I'd love to see what he does with a chance in the rotation, I think he is a real candidate to have a breakout season.

You and me both. I have to drive 8 hours. I live in Ohio.

[endaround]

I wouldn't be to upset is Narveson gets the 5th spot instead of Parra.(yup I am blocking the possibility of Suppan getting the 5th spot out of my mind) I am a little leery of a guy who has only put up a good September and a good spring though.

That ignores what Narveson did in AAA last year. Yeah he was 27 but he still put up an FIP of 2.78 in 75 innings. His K rate really went up starting in 2008 when it went from 6.9 to 8.27.

[JohnBriggs12]

I'm certainly not as leery of Narveson as I am of Parra who's WHIP since the first half of 08 is 1.76.

 

I'm also not so sure they couldn't get Parra through waivers if he blows up again in his last spring outing (not that they'll try it). I wouldn't say the same for Narveson.

 

This whole process has me baffled. Take a look at the spring OPS against numbers and if you based it on that, it would be easy picking out your rotation:

 

.574

 

.601

 

.611

 

.643

 

.705

 

.846

 

1.019

 

Obviously, there's more factors involved and spring numbers are often misleading, but the the top 5 are far and away better than the bottom 2.

 

By the way, in order, those are: Gallardo, Bush, Wolf, Narveson, Davis, Parra and Suppan.

 

Oh and the guy who's going to lose a 25 man spot to allow them this silly notion of keeping all 7 on the roster has an OPS against this spring of .637.

[Funketown]

I think there's no way Parra makes it through waivers, even if he gets throttled in his last spring training start. He's got a ton of ability and is not far removed from a very good season, and whether last year was bad luck or bad pitching, I can guarantee that there are at least a few major league teams that tend to believe the former.

[Invader3K]

I think there's no way Parra makes it through waivers, even if he gets throttled in his last spring training start. He's got a ton of ability and is not far removed from a very good season, and whether last year was bad luck or bad pitching, I can guarantee that there are at least a few major league teams that tend to believe the former.

Plus the fact that he's simply cheap at this point. I don't believe for a minute he'd make it through.

[brewmann04]

They won't waive Parra but at the same Time can Macha say Suppan beat out Naverson.

[joepepsi]

Let me add I think it was really stupid to bring Parra in during the middle of an inning. If you are trying to evaluate your potential starters, then have them pitch as close to a starter's routine as possible.

[Milltownhooker]

So is Bowden lying to us via twitter?

[joepepsi]

So is Bowden lying to us via twitter?

Well, he does work for FOX.....

[Funketown]

They won't waive Parra but at the same Time can Macha say Suppan beat out Naverson.

There are quite a few things Macha could say to justify putting Suppan in the rotation over Narveson, even if they are not legitimate:

 

- Suppan is a grizzled veteran who knows how to win baseball games.

- Narveson does not have much MLB experience and could benefit from a season in the pen.

- Suppan looks to be healthier this season than last; he was a solid pitcher when healthy last year, despite a few unlucky bounces.

- Suppan was just working on his mechanics in spring, he still has the ability to be a strong starting pitcher.

 

I thought I'd be able to think of more cliches, but at this point with Suppan, I really can't. The only thing I'm torn about is whether to give the 5th spot to Parra or Narveson. At this point, I'd give the spot to Parra, and keep Narveson stretched out in case either Bush or Parra struggles. I'd probably give Bush and Parra about the same leash at this point.

 

I still think Suppan might be worth giving a roster spot as a mop-up long reliever, the type of guy who they can throw into the third inning of a 13-2 game and have throw 243 pitches (with the game finishing 28-3 or so). Who knows, maybe he could even be decent in a mop-up role. That said, I think I'll probably be quite relieved if he is cut.

[Ennder]

Narveson isn't likely to be able to go 200 IP even if he were put in the 5th spot so it just makes sense to start him in the bullpen and limit his innings early in the season.

[bork]

So why is Wolf starting today? That lines him up for opening day, not Gallardo.

 

Link

 

Edit: But MLB says it's Gallardo.

[zzzmanwitz]

Narveson isn't likely to be able to go 200 IP even if he were put in the 5th spot so it just makes sense to start him in the bullpen and limit his innings early in the season.

Narveson pitched 136 innings in 2008 and 122 in 2009. I think it would be pretty reasonable if he pitched 160 innings this year.

Only three SPs pitched over 160 innings for the Brewers last season.

Looper - 194.2

Gallardo - 185.2

Suppan - 161.2

Parra - 140

Bush - 114.1

If we look at our our additions, I doubt the Brewers would expect 200 innings from Narveson.

Wolf - 214.1

Davis - 203.1

 

[logan82]

You look for 180+ innings out of a full time starter.

[joepepsi]

You look for 180+ innings out of a full time starter.

Sure you hope for that, but it must be pretty rare that a team has 5 starters throw 180 innings each. Usually the guy with the 5th most starts on a team makes only 21-26 starts in a year. 26 starts at 6 innings a pop is 156 innings.

 

Quick look at a few of the best teams in the league last year; Colorado was the only team to have 5 pitchers start at least 27 games. 4 started at least 30, while Aaron Cook started 27 and threw 158 innings. The fact they had their top 5 healthy enough to take every turn in the rotation is probably the top reason they made it to the playoffs. The Brewers had the same idea but their starters didn't stay healthy.

[logan82]

Of course you are not going to get that many innings out of most of your starters. If you have a guy who can't go that many innings at the start of the year, you shouldn't put him in the rotation at least at the beginning of the year. We are putting Gallardo, Wolf, and Davis out there with the expectation that they will go 200+ innings. Odds are that maybe one actually will. If you have a guy who isn't likely to give you 180+ innings, when do you want him pitching if you think he is a better starter than some of your other options.

[brewmann04]

I would take5-6 quality Innings over what Suppan pitched last season.

[joepepsi]

Of course you are not going to get that many innings out of most of your starters. If you have a guy who can't go that many innings at the start of the year, you shouldn't put him in the rotation at least at the beginning of the year. We are putting Gallardo, Wolf, and Davis out there with the expectation that they will go 200+ innings. Odds are that maybe one actually will. If you have a guy who isn't likely to give you 180+ innings, when do you want him pitching if you think he is a better starter than some of your other options.

I understand what you're saying now.

[logan82]

joepepsi wrote:

I understand what you're saying now.

I am not sure I do. At least one of us does.http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

I am probably the only one who thinks this, but I would start the year with Soup as the fifth starter. He has pitched closer to average when healthy over the last two years, but has worn down at times. He's likely of little use in the pen. I would ride him for awhile until he breaks down or is exceedingly ineffective. This conserves Parra and/or Narveson's innings and hopefully allows them to get in a groove...something Manny has struggled to do over the last couple years. We're going to need all 7 of them this year anyway.

 

Soup doesn't bother me as much as a fifth starter, it's when he's a 2 or 3 that we're in trouble. If one of the other guys can beat him out of that fifth spot over time, more power to them.

[endaround]

Don't confuse being lucky with being good. He wasn't good at all last year outside of June. His FIP by month last year was 6.29, 6.87, 3.54, 6.61, 6.29, 5.53.