Rotation Battle 2.0 -- Latest: Suppan Named 5th Starter

[tigerbrew]

Really hope Suppan is sent to the bullpen immediately, I think Suppan could be a servicable 1-2 inning reliever pitcher for the Brewers, but he should never be put in the position to face the opposing team's batting order twice unless it's a blowout.

 

We already have better options for 5th starter in the team right now in Narveson and Parra, I really don't understand why Macha is stubbornly sticking with Suppan. Aren't the Brewers looking to contend and make postseason this year? I thought the manager's job is to select the starting pitcher that gives the team the best possible chance to win.

[tigerbrew]

If you consider that Suppan never gets past the 4th or 5th inning, he is also killing our bullpen.

And the reason Suppan never gets past the 4th or 5th inning is because he had given up too many runs that the manager had no choice but to yank him. Not only is Suppan killing our bullpen, he's killing our game and our confidence too.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Why so much hate for Suppan? He is, never was, or ever will be an awesome pitcher. He is old, he is fading and was when we signed him. If my boss offered to pay me a crap ton of money to do my job, I sure as heck would sign the dotted line. So while Suppan does indeed suck at baseball, it's not his fault he's on the team. And it's not his fault that he is allowed to pitch every 5 games. Shouldn't our anger at this situation be at the people that subject us to such vile and hateful things such as going to a Brewers game when Suppan starts.

I don't hate Suppan. He's just a horrible pitcher for my favorite team and I want him gone.

[JohnBriggs12]

At some point self preservation has to kick in for Macha and even Melvin. Hopefully Parra's 2 solid innings contrasted with the junk Suppan threw up there in the same game, that at least they're to the point where it's just another game or two.

[davego]

I'd guess at this point if the Mgmt team is going to find someplace that Jeff might still have value for this team, it's going to have to be far away from the starting rotation. Ken talks about how production will dictate opportunity; time to stand by that.

[Ennder]

Unfortunately they will hold the line that he had too much rest between starts and that is why he stunk. I bet we see Suppan start at least 2 more games before they make a change. Last year it really didn't bother me because we didn't have any better options due to lack of depth. This year we have 2 options that are certainly just as good, 3 if you count Vargas. There is no reason to keep Suppan as the starter.

[monty57]

Really hope Suppan is sent to the bullpen immediately, I think Suppan could be a servicable 1-2 inning reliever pitcher for the Brewers, but he should never be put in the position to face the opposing team's batting order twice unless it's a blowout.

 

The way he's looked this year (including spring training and apparently his minor league start), he's hit his cliff and is no longer capable of being a professional pitcher. I really don't even want to see him in the bullpen, as we have better bullpen options at AAA who could actually come into a game and get batters out. There is no longer reason to "keep him for the depth," as I have no doubt that our AAA guys could come in and do at least as good a job as Suppan.

 

Unfortunately they will hold the line that he had too much rest between starts and that is why he stunk. I bet we see Suppan start at least 2 more games before they make a change.

 

I agree. The first start, it was the wind blowing out. Now it will be "too much time between starts" and "he got beat because of an error and a couple of bloop singles." By the time Suppan's let go, Parra / Narveson will no longer be stretched out, and we'll have several 3-4 inning starts by them, further depleting our bullpen.

[jwill535]

I respect Suppan the man and think he does a lot of good work for the community. With that said I hate Suppan the pitcher and want him gone.

[owbc]

I think we need to hang on to Suppan in case there are injuries in the starting rotation. However, he should be the #7 starter behind Parra and then Narveson. The current situation is embarrassing--but I think Melvin and Macha are not the ones making the decision, they must know that Suppan is washed up.

 

I agree with the earlier comments--Mark A. has to be calling the shot here. The Suppan contract was his decision more than anyone else's, and I think he's afraid to give up on him. Melvin and Macha may be allowing it, but they have generally listened to the fans in the past. If they ignore the fans, the sentiment turns on them and they end up getting fired. I refuse to believe that they do not realize that Suppan is washed up.

 

I think Mark A. told them to give him a few starts, so not only are Melvin/Macha allowing this nonsense to continue, they will also face no repercussions for the decision, since Mark A. is ultimately responsible. Melvin and Macha are responsible for public relations, which is an impossible battle to win.

 

Furthermore, last night's game was probably the highest rated TV game of the year, with lots of attention on the Brewers after a 20-0 win and the Cubs coming into town. Good luck winning any fair weather fans with that performance.

[Invader3K]

You can't totally blame Suppan for last night's loss, since the offense seemed to fail to show up as well. However, he put them in the worst possible spot...down early and pressing to score runs. He just doesn't have it anymore as a starter. I'd be fine with moving him to the bullpen and then letting him go if he can't even handle that. We just can't dink around with him as a starter anymore. The losses in April and May count as much as the ones in August and September.

[yount19.u]

Over 6 starts the difference between Suppan and Parra is probably only 3 runs.(assuming Parra at a 4.50 ERA and Suppan at 5.25, if we assume Parra at 4.25 and Suppan at 5.75, 6 runs) I think Suppan in the rotation and Parra/Narveson in the bullpen is colossally stupid but it isn't really a big deal until we get about 10 starts for Suppan in.(5 or 10 runs at that point)

I think you're being way too generous with a 5.75 ERA. With most pitchers, I would agree as they may regress as time goes on, but it would be in smaller increments. With Suppan, his regression seems to be getting exponentially worse by the season. Watching him this year, I have no confidence that his ERA would be any less than 7.00 if he pitched all year. That's not just my disdain for Suppan coloring my view of his outlook. I see nothing in his pitching that could sustain an ERA less than that. His velocity, movement and control are all falling off a cliff, and this team's hopes of getting to the playoffs are following Suppan's skills with every start he makes.

[craigharmann]

It really would be nice is there was some sort of organized boycott so that Mark A and the management would know that the fan base doesn't support throwing an awful pitcher out there every 5th day, giving the team not much of a chance to win. Not sure exactly what would be the best route, be it letters/e-mails or just not showing up on the home games when Soup attempts to not give up 20 runs in the 1st inning.

[Flood Pants]

I just don't get the "pitching depth" argument for keeping Suppan around anymore. I understand the concern, but don't see how Suppan is legitimate must-keep depth. Who else on this roster can step in and likely pitch 4 innings and give up 6 runs or less?

 

Parra

Narveson

Villanueva

Vargas

 

Not saying they'd want to use Villanueva or Vargas as starters anymore, but I am saying in an injury emergency, they could probably step in and do about the same as Suppan. They may as well cut him lose and get Stetter back up to improve this pitching staff and let Parra/Narveson continue developing as a starter.

[monty57]

I agree yount19. Even pre-injury last year, Suppan could at least get batters out. I don't know if it's the injuries he's suffered the past two years, his age, or a combination of both, but he's regressed to the point that he's not fooling anyone anymore, and the fact that he's pitching for the Brewers makes it more difficult for the Brewers to have a shot at the playoffs.

 

This offseason, I thought Suppan was probably still a decent #5 starter. I felt that Narveson and Parra were better options, but I thought Suppan was passable. Through spring, his minor league "rehab" start and his first two starts, it really looks like he has lost it. It's time to cut ties with Suppan, let Parra or Narveson start and bring up someone like Stetter, Braddock or Axford who can actually help the team.

[Ennder]

I think you're being way too generous with a 5.75 ERA

 

I would take an under on 5.75 from this point on, in fact I'd take an under on 5.25 from this point on if Suppan just starts all year. However I would take the under on 4.75 from both Narveson and Parra so I'd still like to see a change. I don't think Suppan has 'lost it' as much as he was just never very good. This is what happens when a pitcher who isn't very good doesn't have his best control.

[Rhett16]

Melvin isn't stupid, he has to know that Suppan is toast and will get him out of the rotation fairly soon. That being said, I have this huge fear that in one of his next 2 starts, Suppan will, by some incredible fluke, go 7 innings with only 1 run allowed. Thereby "earning" him another month or two of starts, in which he will undoubtedly get shelled.

[hawing]

I have this huge fear that in one of his next 2 starts, Suppan will, by some incredible fluke, go 7 innings with only 1 run allowed.

Well, his next scheduled start is vs. the Pirates, whom 3/4 of the rest of the rotation were able to shut down (Davis hasn't faced them yet). It could be a litmus test.

 

The thing that bugs me is that Soup remains in the rotation despite the team's general stance that performance matters. I'd feel oddly better about it (better being a relative term) if Ken or Doug or Mark would just come out and say it's the money that keeps Jeff in the starting five.

[sgtcluels]

That's simply silly. MAs involvement is an easy excuse to ignore Melvins complete failure with Suppan. It allows us to ignore the failures of Melvin and only focus on the positives.

[crewcrazy]

As an aside, I think quite a few posts in this thread are an example of how we can be negative without flat-out venting. Kudos to everyone.

 

On the topic of Suppan, I think the fake spring training "competition" still has me sour. If the Brewers are that worried about injuries taking their toll on the rotation again, they still need Parra and Narveson stretched out enough to fill in when needed. I would hope that the Brewers start giving Parra and Narveson a start here and there when the fifth starter is needed. It's something that could be done without officially removing Suppan from the rotation if the front office still refuses to admit that he doesn't have it anymore, I think, while appeasing the fans who really don't want to see Suppan out there every week.

 

It's not an ideal situation, but it jives with Melvin's preseason comments that he doesn't see the 5th spot being held by one pitcher all year.

[BrewCrewForever]

I would maybe give Suppan two more stats. If he fails in those, then you have to pull the plug. The $12 mill is spent either way, so pay the guy his money to not hurt the team and give Parra or Narveson a chance to start.

[joepepsi]

He'll get two more starts. If he doesn't get better, then put Parra in the rotation.

[paul253]

I'd give Suppan two more starts. If he doesn't show something then he needs to be switched with Manny Parra. Jeff Suppan could do what Parra is doing in terms of relief work. Parra is still young enough to get better. This whole topic has been a joke since the very beginning. First there is supposedly an open competition, which Chris Narveson clearly won. Then when he puts Suppan in the rotation anyway, Macha uses the excuse "well the other two have experience in the bullpen and Suppan does not". Who cares? What kind of experience is needed to come in and pitch 3 innings when your team is getting blown away? I agree with Hawing....grow a pair and just admit this is because of Suppan's salary and not about what is best for the team.

[Brewer Fever]

I'm confused with the give him a couple more starts sentiment. What, so he can progress from punching everyone in the face with the reality that he's done to employing a power tool to drill into everyone's heads the reality that he's done?

 

I swear the guy could issue a public statement stating that even he knows he's no longer a major league pitcher and there would be people saying give him a couple more starts.

[Invader3K]

What kind of experience is needed to come in and pitch 3 innings when your team is getting blown away? I agree with Hawing....grow a pair and just admit this is because of Suppan's salary and not about what is best for the team.

 

I agree with this. It's not like he would be the first starter shunted down to the bullpen. Heck, the Cubs just did the same thing with Zambrano earlier this week, and he's obviously a much better pitcher than Suppan at this point.

 

And yes, I wish there would be some acknowledgment about the reality of the situation and cause for this decision to keep using Suppan in the rotation, when he's obviously the worst pitcher on the team.

[MaxJ72]

I kind of feel bad for Soup the person. He was booed pretty harshly last night. Of course I don't feel too bad that he can go home and cuddle with his $12 million to make himself feel better.

 

Now Soup the pitcher I have no use for. When he is on the mound I have no confidence that we will win unless it is a homerun contest type of game. We can win those but I would prefer not to. I as a fan have no confidence, so I would have to believe the team doesn't have any either. That makes for a difficult day at the ball yard.

 

I wouldn't let Soup pitch on my beer league softball team, so I would have to say that I don't want to give him anymore starts.