Gamel Out Eight to Nine More Weeks -- Lat muscle behind right shoulder

[Mass Haas]

McCalvy

 

(edit: changed topic title from "six" to "eight to nine" more weeks based on Logan's reply #24 --1992)

[joepepsi]

Well, good thing they didn't trade McGehee. This could be a lucky break for Heether to play 3rd in AAA and get the first shot in Milwaukee if something goes wrong up there.

 

Hopefully it' s not serious for Gamel, but you gotta figure he's not going to be 100% much before June.

[TheCrew07]

This might be a blessing in disguise even though it sucks for Mat, I would hate for him to burn up more service time siting on the bench.

 

I dislike that this happened in early March and it takes over 2 weeks to get any sort of definitive diagnosis on the problem.

[yount19.u]

So there was the issue last year (or was it the year before?) with Gamel not telling the team about his shoulder injury, and now he injures it again because he did not warm up for batting practice. Makes you wonder if the rumors about maturity are true, and if that factored into his bench time last year. Hopefully they end this season with some nice production out of him.

[1992casey]

TheCrew07, the way things stand, as he hadn't been optioned before being placed on the DL, I think Mat will be burning up Major League service time.

 

The way I understand the rules, he'd currently be considered to be part of the Major League team, drawing Major League pay, and using up service time until he's healed and can start playing in Nashville.

[Nottso]

I don't know if Gamel had an MRI before this one, but oftentimes partial tears of muscles won't show up until the muscle tears completely. It took a year and a half and many MRI,s/CAT scans/Arthrograms to finally find my torn rotator cuff.

[Invader3K]

Well, I guess he probably won't be around to sign that ticket I have.

 

This is too bad for Gamel, but like others said, he probably would have been starting in AAA anyway. Let's just hope that McGehee stays healthy and productive at 3B, and that Counsell and Heether (?) can fill in adequately as needed.

[Milltownhooker]

What about Inglett?

[TooLiveBrew]

TheCrew07, the way things stand, as hadn't been optioned before being placed on the DL, I think Mat will be burning up Major League service time.

 

The way I understand way I understand the rules, he'd currently be considered to be part of the Major League team, drawing Major League pay, and using up service time until he's healed and can start playing in Nashville.

If this is true, ugh. Just terrible.

[TheCrew07]

TheCrew07, the way things stand, as hadn't been optioned before being placed on the DL, I think Mat will be burning up Major League service time.

I had not even considered that he hadn't been optioned, cripes.

 

As far as injury diagnosis goes, I'm sorry for what you went through Nottso, shoulder problems are definitely the toughest in sports to diagnose because there is so much going on in the shoulder. However the fact that it took over a year for correct diagnosis is more a condemnation of the people providing your care than an any sort of accurate timetable for diagnosis and treatment. Unless you injured it years prior and just dealt with it and scar tissue/healing/time had made it much more difficult to look into the shoulder. An MRI is $400, it's chump change to a professional franchise, if they aren't sure get a damn MRI right away so they know what they are dealing with. Football teams do it, teams like Cleveland don't mess around and do it, why not the Brewers? If this was an isolated case I wouldn't have said anything because I know the difficult time our trainer has diagnosing injuries, some kids have so little toughness that it's nearly impossible to tell the severity of the injury. However this is a pattern going back years and to be fair Gamel claims he did tell the training staff about his injury in 2008.

 

The organization has a very sketchy record as far as I'm concerned with players coming back too early, players pushing themselves too far, and questionable diagnosis and treatment. Just in the last couple of years Sheets, Weeks, Gallardo, Green, Dennis, Periard, Bush, Gamel, Bryson, Braddock, and Salome all have been mishandled. That's just a list off the top of my head, I'm sure I've overlooked someone. If an athlete is hurt to the point it affects their performance they shouldn't be allowed to compete, period. I'm not talking about strains, bumps, bruises, and the like, I'm talking not being able to hold or swing a bat, pitching with a known tear in the elbow, pitching with an unstable knee, knowing a player is hurt at the end of the season but hoping time/rest heal the injury before the next spring training like what happened with Green and Periard, there was no reason Jones should have had to endure both shoulder and TJ surgery, and I wonder if it was necessary for Rogers to have multiple surgeries or if a better surgeon or perhaps rehab program would have limited it to a single operation.

 

My take on this is pretty simple. Just properly diagnose and treat the injury the first time, and do it in a timely manner.

[logan82]

TheCrew07, the way things stand, as hadn't been optioned before being placed on the DL, I think Mat will be burning up Major League service time.

 

The way I understand way I understand the rules, he'd currently be considered to be part of the Major League team, drawing Major League pay, and using up service time until he's healed and can start playing in Nashville.

I hope you are wrong. I am afraid you are probably right. This is probably similar to the situation with Gallardo a couple years back when he hurt his knee(?) in spring training and missed a few weeks to start the season. At least when Gamel comes back they can send him right down to AAA to get back into playing shape.

[TooLiveBrew]

My take on this is pretty simple. Just properly diagnose and treat the injury the first time, and do it in a timely manner.

 

Well, yeah. Unfortunately it's not always that simple, though. Please note that I'm not disagreeing with your larger point about the Brewers, as I share some of those sentiments. However, it's not like every single sporting organization doesn't want to abide by the quoted mantra. It's just not always as easy as "Well just handle it perfectly the first time, every time!" Players hide injuries, MRIs aren't always conclusive, etc.

[Ennder]

The Brewers are considered to have one of the best medical staffs in baseball so I'm guessing that the way they handled the situation is pretty standard and not just slacking off.

[Invader3K]

Yeah, I personally tend to doubt the medical staff was careless or lazy in the handling of one of the franchise's top prospects. For all we know, Gamel could have downplayed that he was in any pain or feeling discomfort.

[Nottso]

TheCrew07,

Mine was missed due to a few really odd facts. I injured my shoulder at the same time as I herniated 3 cervical disks. My shoulder tear was in the Supraspinatous (the uppermost of the 4 muscles that comprise the rotator cuff). On a normal man, the Supraspinatous is about 1/2" thick. Mine was 4" thick, mostly due to the work I did for a living. I learned that it's actually quite common for this muscle to be way over-developed in people that are in any of the pipe trades. The motion involved in using pipe wrenches is what does it.

 

Right when I got hurt, tests were done on my neck and my shoulder. Shoulder showed good, neck showed as garbage. I could barely lift my left arm, but doctors kept saying "it's all radiating out of your neck." Finally, it tore the rest of the way through, showed up on an Arthrogram, and was operated on. The surgeon said that once he got in there, he could tell that it had been partially torn for a very long time, and that had it not torn the rest of the way, it likely would never have been diagnosed.

 

I'm not saying Gamel's situation is like this, but when I hear people say "how do you miss a torn rotator cuff," my situation comes to mind. Medical imaging is wonderful science, but it's not infallible.

[joepepsi]

Well, he's already part of the 40 man roster, so isn't he drawing major league pay?

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

Not if he's optioned to Nashville.

[endaround]

This doesn't have to do with pay, though that will fall off too. It deals with service time. Because he got injured before being optioned his entire time spent on the DL accrues major league service time which affects his arbitration and free agency dates.

[CheezWizHed]

Silver lining = At least we know he won't be sitting on the bench behind MacGehee now when he is healthy. He will start at AAA.

 

So will Heether or Green start at 3B in AAA until Gamel is healthy?

[logan82]

He is getting service time while on the DL though. That was the whole issue with him sitting the bench. This is no better, actually worse since at least on the bench he would make an occasional contribution.

[CheezWizHed]

Yes, but in "6 weeks" (if he weren't injured) he could still be sitting on the bench. Now we know in "6 weeks" he will be at AAA... Not saying his injury is better than sitting the bench in MLB, just trying to stay positive.

[joepepsi]

Service time won't start until Opening Day, right? So, if he can be truly be activated and sent to Nashville in 6 weeks, you're talking about less than a month service time.

[MJLiverock]

I wouldn't bet on a return in 6 weeks. I would bet on a torn muscle, especially in a high movement area like his lat will take toward the long end or more than any estimate they put out there. Building up the strength in the fibers to withstand a few hundred swings and a few hundred thows a day to get back into baseball playing shape will take time beyond just getting the fibers to grow together. If I were to bet on his return to effectiveness, playing every day it would be on the over of the 9 week period.

 

 

I agree with Crew07's point earlier about the seeming trend or pattern of Brewer players being hurt or complaining of an injury for quite sometime before an MRI is done. I just don't get why a professional sports team doesn't send guys for MRIs quicker or more often when these things come up. Trying to save a couple grand here or there when millions are invested in the player salary and success of the team seems silly.

[brewernp]

As a nurse practitioner the question of do an MRI vs not is a daily issue. I agree that cost is much less of an issue for the Brewers than it is for my patients. But the problem with all imaging is, when there is significant swelling or inflammation in the area the scan could be less receptive to damage and thus pointless. I do not know if this is the case in Gamels situation or not but it is a possible explanation. Ultimately, injuries in athletes is a very difficult situation. I know the pressure we get in primary care to get/keep these high school and college athletes on the field. I cannot imagine what it is like in the pros.

[logan82]

Should change the thread title. We have new information. Casey was correct. Free service time for Gamel.

 

 

"Then he has to get ready for games from there, so we could be talking

about closer to eight to nine weeks total before he's 100 percent,"

Brewers assistant general manager Gord Ash said.

Injured players who logged Major League time in the previous season

cannot be optioned to the Minor Leagues, so Gamel will almost certainly

begin the season on the Brewers' 15-day disabled list.