Dave Bush

[Milltownhooker]

What does everybody think the crew can get out of him. Barring injuries he looks like the odd man out?

[TooLiveBrew]

This is based on three days of ST games?

[endaround]

The Brewers have room for everyone assuming Villaneuva starts in AAA and Riske isn't ready to go in April. I don't see the Brewers moving anyone until they absolutely have to given the lack of depth past Narveson.

[Milltownhooker]

No budgetary reality plays a role too. I'm looking into the end of ST. KC & the dodgers could be good fits too

[JohnBriggs12]

The Brewers have room for everyone assuming Villaneuva starts in AAA and Riske isn't ready to go in April. I don't see the Brewers moving anyone until they absolutely have to given the lack of depth past Narveson.

I agree with Milltownhooker. Somebody's likely to be moved barring injury. Your "room for everyone" is full of assumptions. Do you really think the Brewers would break camp with 3 lefties in the pen to go along with the 4 righties (Coffey, Vargas, Hawkins and Hoffman) that appear solid, if 2 of those lefties don't have much if any major league bullpen experience. You also can't assume that Narveson and the other guy demoted to the pen will by May 1st or so, will be stretched out enough to step in an start and throw 90 pitches. You are also assuming that a veteran like Scott Schoeneweis won't win a spot. He very well could.

 

Also to be considered that the minute a guy is demoted to the pen, he loses value in the market. Of course Suppan's value might be limited to one or two equally bad contracts like a Jose Guillen type anyway.

 

It's true the Brewers (and every other team for that matter) would like 3-4 guys at AAA available and capable of starting. But with the Brewer group, none of the 4 competing for the last 2 spots has an option. Hopefully, that's Capuano, Halama, and maybe even Villanueva if he were starting at AAA could help out.

[TooLiveBrew]

It just doesn't make any sense for the Brewers to move one of their best 5 SP. This is not some super-deep starting rotation that we have.

[Milltownhooker]

It just doesn't make any sense for the Brewers to move one of their best 5 SP.

 

 

Thats debateable

[TooLiveBrew]

It would just take a lot for Suppan to be ahead of him. There's really nothing to indicate that we should be concerned about Dave Bush. I fully expect him to pitch to his career norms this season, which would easily keep him ahead of Soup.

[Milltownhooker]

Yeah I agree & see your point, but I just don't think he's enough better than Suppan to outweigh the cost ratio's. In a perfect world. Narveson & Bush would be 4 & 5, but reality & budget contraints say differently.

[TooLiveBrew]

In a perfect world, Bush & Parra would be 4-5... and I think there's a very good chance that happens this season. Although Haudricourt commented that he felt Suppan's contract would mean he'll be in the rotation, I don't think that's how Melvin is approaching this season at all.

[Milltownhooker]

Well I agree on parra, but I think he's such a head case that he'll work his way out of the rotation similar to last year.

[Milltownhooker]

Just to be clear TwoLive. I hope your right & its Suppan shown the door & Bush at the #4 spot

[joepepsi]

The organization doesn't seem to respect Bush as much as Suppan, so I fear he's the one most likely to be jacked around first. If Suppan fails after 10-12 starts, then maybe Bush will get a shot. It's difficult for organization to bury their top paid pitcher in the pen unless he's a premium closer or he's is terrible as a starter. An ERA in the low 5's for Soup and the manager will keep him in there, claiming he's almost turned the corner and only one good start from being right where they expect him to be.

 

Of course this scenario would be huge mistake. If Bush shows he's healthy he should be the 4th starter.

[RockCoCougars]

I'd bet good money that Suppan and Schoenweiss go north and Bush and Villanueva are gone at the end of spring training. Doesn't make sense, but for whatever reason, Suppan is like the coaches kid who sucks but pitches every game anyway. Everyone else on the team seems to be held accountable for poor play except Suppan. Due to his relationship with Peterson, let's say that Schoeweiss is the coaches son's best friend.

[joepepsi]

Suppan is the new Kendall!

[Milltownhooker]

rotoworld thinks that if the crew paid 10 Million of Suppan's deal they could get a taker. Anybody think the crew could pay less maybe with a prospect thrown in?

[CheezWizHed]

rotoworld thinks that if the crew paid 10 Million of Suppan's deal they could get a taker. Anybody think the crew could pay less maybe with a prospect thrown in?

Assuming the first statement is true, I'm sure someone would be willing to "pay cash" for a prospect. How much for who would be the question.

 

Right now, it looks like Parra and Bush are going to be mutually exclusive in the starting 5. Things can change, but it looks like they have been paired...

 

I would guess that one of Parra/Bush/Suppan/Narveson is gone. I doubt they put two in the BP, unless the BP is really awful...

[Milltownhooker]

Well I like Estrada, Narveson, Parra, & Bush battling for 4 & 5 s I know its wishful thinking but thats what trade/rumor boards are for

[NievesNoNO]

I think things will play out as we get towards the end of spring training as far as injuries and such. The Brewers do probably have room for everyone even without an injury. I can see Cappy, Halama and Villy all at AAA to start the season. Most of the teams are in the same position as the Brewers right now with what seems like extra pitching. I also agree that Bush is one of the best 5 the Brewers have so to trade him doesn't make alot of sense from a baseball standpoint. From a financial standpoint maybe, but I have a suspicion that the 4 million or so would not seem like a big price tag come the middle of the season when they're trying to scape up a pitcher to get them to the end of the season after some injuries. I have to believe the team is O.K. with the payroll going forward as now doesn't seem the time to try and rework things.

Maybe a team will lose a pitcher due to injury before the season and be mildly interested in Suppan if the Brewers pay almost the entire salary. Although if you're not good enough to start for the team with one of the worst ERAs in the league then I doubt many other teams are interested. I hope they choose to not get complicated with the situation and just cut him. To throw in a prospect to play less money for another team to take him seems like compounding a mistake. Would another team even give any kind of prospect in return even if the Brewers paid most of his salary?

As for what they could get for Bush, I'm not sure either. Maybe a low-level mid-tier type prospect.

[monty57]

A Bill Hall type deal would probably be the best they could do with Suppan. Trade him for a moderately talented prospect to save $1-2MM in salary. If a trade occurs, I don't think anything will happen until late in Spring Training, as it would look really bad if they traded a starter and then lost someone to injury at the end of ST.

 

Yo, Davis and Wolf are locks, and Parra's got far too much raw talent to give up on. In my mind, that leaves the final spot for Bush, Suppan and Narveson. I really hope they're smart enough to hold on to Narveson, so I think he'll go to the pen, meaning that barring injury Bush or Suppan could have to go. I think Bush will be a better pitcher than Suppan this year, and if it is possible to trade Suppan for $1-2MM in salary relief, I'd much rather go that route.

 

That said, if I had to bet, I'd say that one of our pitchers will get some sort of injury during Spring Training, and will start the season on the DL, giving us some extra time to work things out. The extra insurance at SP will be a good thing as the season progresses. If we're fortunate enough to have all of our starting pitchers healthy at the end of ST, I hope Melvin and Mark A. are willing to eat some crow and trade Suppan even if it means eating most of the salary.

[Milltownhooker]

Parra & Narveson are exactly 1 yr apart in age. Yes Parra has raw talent, but eventually Raw talent has to turn into results

[logan82]

We will need at least 7 starters this year. More likely closer to 9 or 10. It makes little sense to get rid of Bush, Suppan, Parra or any other starting pitcher until we have a few guys in the minors show they can pitch.

[ILuvDaBush]

Exactly. Most would probably say Josh Butler was our best hope at AAA this year, and he's beginning to look somewhat hopeless, at least in terms of being able to help us early. I actually think the pecking order is:

 

1. Parra - Our former top prospect. "Perfect Game" memory still somewhat in the back of one's mind

 

2. Bush - For $4M, if you get pre-injury Bush, you have an immense bargain.

 

3. Soup - As alluded to earlier, there are always teams willing to take a chance on a guy with past success. The former NLCS MVP should have a bidder, even if it is Dave Duncan (which is why I want to see what Soup can do with Gomez and Escobar - and a healthy Rickie - up the middle defensively)

 

3a. Narveson - With Lofgren being offered back, we have a true dearth of YOUNG southies beyond Parra/Braddock. Few and far between. SOmething tells me he stays unless we can't get a deal worked out for Soup.

 

Bush shouldn't be going anywhere. He's got the best baseball look on the Brewers outside of Prince's pajama look.

[pete]

The pre-injury Bush wasn't all that hot. I get the impression that he is beloved by Melvin though.

[logan82]

4.58 ERA may not be great but it is good enough to be a starter for practically any team in the league.

 

which is why I want to see what Soup can do with Gomez and Escobar - and a healthy Rickie - up the middle defensively

 

We are likely to see worse or equal defense up the middle this year. Gomez is a small upgrade over Cameron. There is no way Weeks matches the defense we got at 2B last year.(we got the best 2B defense in all of baseball last year according to UZR) I think at some point Escobar can be an elite defender, but JJ was very solid(8.8 UZR/150) last year. Overall I think we lost about half to a whole win defensively up the middle.