Rotation battle

[Tbadder]

I think this year is different from last year; I think there's more of a bottom line mentality for Macha and Melvin. They need wins. Soup is not going to give them wins. They cut him or banish him to long relief. But any pitcher who isn't one of the 12 best pitchers has negative value to the club, so you either stand on your 12.5 mil and lose an extra game or two, or take the better pitcher and pay out 13 or 14 mil--you gotta cut the player. If he's still on the roster opening day I think it means Melvin is pretty confident about his job and he's willing to let Macha sink, which is kinda cool if you think about it.

[TooLiveBrew]

I could be wrong, but wasn't yesterday the deadline for cutting non-guaranteed players to receive only 1/6th of their salary? If so, I'd assume that is a good sign for Bush.

 

I seriously doubt the Brewers have ever considered cutting him. "Cut Dave Bush" = 2010's "DFA Weeks"

[Invader3K]

You could very well be right. I think some of the speculation was based on a quote from Doug Melvin that talked about how he might look to cut some salary before Opening Day (I think this was right about Hart's arbitration hearing).

[Diskono]

Heck, there are still free agents out there that could be had on a minor league deal that are better than Suppan.

 

We have to pay Suppan either way. Signing one of those guys would be extra money.

Still, Suppan being on the roster most likely hurts the team. If the extra $300k is too much, you at least have to minimize the damage and banish Suppan to long relief.

[CheezWizHed]

But it only takes one or two injuries for that to change quickly...

If a team loses one of their top 3 starters, Suppan isn't going to make up that loss. They do what the Brewers did in 08. You plug in guys from your system and hope the injured guy comes back or you stay close enough to deal for a quality arm at the deadline. Most teams have one or two guys close to ready in their systems that they'll go with if a 4th or 5th starter goes down. Suppan simply has next to no value. Brewers will be fortunate if he lands a major league job of any kind so they can save the major league minimum portion of his contract should he be released.

You mean like the Brewers did in '09? Plug in guys that were worse than Suppan? If we had a better playoff shot and deeper pockets last year, we wouldn't have suffered through that. We would have gotten someone to fill the spot. Not saying Suppan is worth $4mil (i.e. if MB pays $8million), but injuries on playoff contending teams can change the market in a hurry.

 

And I would bet both Looper and Washburn are counting on that to happen.

[logan82]

Diskono wrote:

Still, Suppan being on the roster most likely hurts the team.

It doesn't hurt the team unless he makes the team over somebody clearly better. We don't have a pitcher who fits that description.

[Milltownhooker]

Villenova to AAA. either Parra, Bush or Narveson to bullpen

[TheCrew07]

I'm not sure how you can make that distinction, what are you basing "better" on? Upside? Years of Service? Cost?

 

If I'm understanding you correctly Suppan is the best pitcher between Suppan, Parra, Bush, and Narveson because the Brewers are on the hook for his contract regardless but can cut Bush for minimal cost savings since he only has a year of team control left as well?

 

There's more wrong with Suppan than his contract, his stuff is declining, the velocity differential between his 2 best pitches are virtually non existent, and he doesn't have the ability to miss bats anymore. There was a point last season when he had only gotten a single FB past a hitter for a swing and a miss, many of us commented on the BCB article over here at the time. His only redeeming quality is that he generally keeps balls on the ground. I have a hard time swallowing the argument that Suppan is one of our best 5 pitchers this season, nor am I willing to sacrifice any part of our future for him either.

 

This is one decision that should be made solely based on talent if they are serious about winning, not about his contract, and certainly not about his veteran "knows how to go about his business" Macha speak. If Bush is better than Suppan, he should stay, I don't care about the contract implications, I really don't want the Brewers dumping more prospects at the deadline anyway. If Suppan is one of the 5 best, so be it, but he's clearly pitched the worst so far this spring and while I generally don't give a hoot about spring training stats, this was supposed to be an open competition for the final 2 rotation spots.

 

The Brewers may keep Suppan around but it's clearly not about his results or his talent at this point, which to me means they'd be making a decision for all of the wrong reasons.

[logan82]

Just to make things perfectly clear(or at least clearer) I would go with

 

Rotation

Gallardo

Wolf

Bush

Davis

Parra

 

Bullpen

Hoffman

Hawkins

Coffey

Narveson

Suppan

Stetter

Vargas

 

Villanueva goes to AAA. We will need at least 7 starting pitchers. Probably more like 9. Suppan isn't good but we have no clear better options in AAA. Our AAA starting pitching options are at best unknowns and at worst completely suck. This sacrifices nothing for our future and maintains our depth.

 

Suppan is probably a 5.00-5.50 ERA pitcher. Parra and Bush are probably 4.25-5.50. At worst I think those 2 are worse than Suppan but they have the potential to be much much better. Yes cutting Bush saves us some money but we would have to just put that money back into a pitcher mid season anyway. If we have a couple minor league pitchers show they can pitch well, then cut Suppan midseason.

[joepepsi]

I am totally satisfied with that set up for the pitchers.

[chadomac]

I would be okay with that too. I just really don't want to lose Narveson, Bush, or Parra to waivers - because we're going to need them at some point this year in the rotation. I wish Suppan could start the season in the pen but I just don't believe it will happen... even though it should. Bush and Narveson are pitching great.

[davemakovec]

Yesterday Parra had a bad game in terms of results. Just what Macha was waiting for to give Suppan his rightful spot and ditch the whipper-snapper. Zim-zam over!

[Milltownhooker]

Since Suppan is such a great guy. He should be willing take a buyout & stay home correct?

[Milltownhooker]

Well looks like only the 5th spot is up for grabs Parra & Narveson

[HOF4canrake]

This guy at brewersmix.com made some good arguments for the Brewers trying to deal Suppan to a team out west, mentioning the D-Backs, Dodgers and Mariners if the Brewers would eat all but 1-2 million in salary. He said that he'd have no problem releasing Suppan, but that may send a bad message to possible free agents.

 

Anyway, I agree with what he's saying...keep Bush, Parra and Narveson with the big club and have one in the bullpen.

[Invader3K]

I wonder how Macha will try to spin Suppan's outing this time.

[trwi7]

Gallardo, Wolf, Parra, Davis, Narveson and Bush have given up a combined 13 runs in 48.2 innings. Suppan has given up 12 in 12 innings.

 

This should be an obvious decision, right?

[TheCrew07]

methinks you presume too much... I'm really looking forward to more Macha wisdom about this one, maybe he'll compare Suppan's runs to Parra's, or something.

[adambr2]

Since Suppan is such a great guy. He should be willing take a buyout & stay home correct?

Sure he would. We buy out his entire $12.5M contract this season + the $2M buyout for next season, and he'll stay home.

[MNBrew]

There was a deal on mlbtraderumors.com today saying how the Diamondbacks may need more pitching. Offer to pay $12M of the net $14M owed Suppan to get him outta town. He stunk again today.

 

The financial ramifications aren't otherwise going to change. But by cutting Suppan, they may be making a better baseball decision. Remember just how well the Seligs' financially motivated decisions helped the on-field product and the baseball results? Please, Mark A., don't go retro. Cut Suppan now or deal him & most of the cash to pay his salary to anyone who'd take him.

[adambr2]

If the D-backs wanted to give us a minor league filler than will never make it and give us $2M in salary relief, I'd jump all over it. Hey, it'd be more worthwhile than just dumping him and eating $14.5M.

[Tailgat0r76]

I just got back from today's game, and as we can all see from the Box scores - Suppan is as hittable as ever. One of the hits in the first inning was a little broken bat single that wasn't "legitimate" (as Macha would put it), but other than that he was getting crushed. The batters were easily looking at all of his balls and jumping on his strikes. Verrry few swinging strikes or called strikes like usual. He's got to be gone... right?

[Invader3K]

Macha didn't seem as enthusiastic about Suppan after today's game. From Tom Haudricourt:

 

Suppan said afterward he was too "amped up" about using all of his pitches and missed with location. But manager Ken Macha said the problem in the first inning was that Suppan wasn't using all of his pitches, that he wasn't using enough slow stuff, and he sent pitching coach Rick Peterson out to remind him of that.

 

"It's not like I haven't mentioned that before," said Macha.

[RockCoCougars]

Let's just forget about any pipe dream in trading Suppan and getting a team to pick up any of his salary. Honestly, what does he bring to the table? There are scores of minor league pitchers around baseball and probably dozens of guys without jobs right now that could outperform him. It's time for this team to man up, admit their mistake, and release him now. The definition of insanity is to keep trying something that doesn't work again and again hoping for different results. Quit fooling around with him, he's taking innings away from guys that should be looked at and evaluated in this environment. Even if he was buried in the bullpen, what point is there in wasting a roster spot on a guy who should only see action in blowout losses. I certainly wouldn't want to see him jog in from the bullpen in any type of close game, or even with the Brewers leading by 5 or 6 runs.

[logan82]

Just like last year we can run anybody out there and they will be better than Suppan except all those guys sucked. It isn't as easy to replace Suppan as you make it sound.