Carlos Gomez vz Alcides Escobar

[logan82]

Who do you think will put up a better BA, OBP, SLG, OPS and wOBA. I have been thinking about this a bit and still have not formed a solid opinion. Off the top of my head I would say Escobar will hit better. If you ask me tomorrow I might have a different opinion than today as there is a lot to suggest Gomez could have a good year.

[trwi7]

Escobar for all of them.

[brewtank34]

Without seeing much of either, I really don't have a clue. Based off the numbers, it looks as if Escobar will be better in most categories. I think OBP, Gomez could perform. The real question is can both of these guys produce for the Crew at the bottom of the line-up where they're going to be seeing some wicked pitches? I think their number's are going to be effected greatly by the slot in the line-up Macha pencils them into. Obviously that statement works the same for Hart, McGahee and everyone else, but it really holds true for these two. The Crew could help themselves by putting them positions to see better pitches IMO.

[Ennder]

I think CarGo will beat him in every category except AVG most likely. It was hidden in his BABIP dip last year but he improved in every area as a hitter last year and moving to the NL will only help.

[TooLiveBrew]

I think Escobar will have the better AVG, but Gomez will be better in the other categories

[endaround]

Escobar most likely for all them though there's a chance Gomez could have a higher SLG% if he can get his average in the 260 range.

[JohnBriggs12]

Escobar easily in BA and OBP. Slugging will be close but I give the edge to Escobar because even though a higher percentage of Gomez' hits figure to be for extra bases, Escobar will have a lot more hits. Overall OPS, Escobar by 30-40 points

[FVBrewerFan]

Who will lead in caught stealing?

[Tbadder]

Gomez Vs. Escobar--

 

That's easy. Gomez will pummel him. Escobar better hope this isn't a caged match--he may not come out alive.

[sbrylski]

Interesting to see the varying opinions.

 

They are very similar players. Its hard to have a firm opinion one way or the other.

[zzzmanwitz]

How about who has the most Web Gems?

[logan82]

I did the Fangraphs projection thing and came up with these numbers and I think they are at least a little optimistic.

 

player/AVG/OBP/SLG/OPS/wOBA

Gomez .271/.329/.384/.713/.320

Escobar .290/.326/.361/.687/.310

 

So I guess I have Gomez in everything except average. They really are so close though that I wouldn't put money on either one outhitting the other. I might give the edge to Gomez in WAR since I think right now he has plus defense and I am guessing a little over average on Escobar. Of course Escobar may have the higher WAR if Macha actually starts using his bench. I think Gomez could lose playing time to Gerut driving his WAR down.

[jerichoholicninja]

I'll give the edge to Gomez and he's had more ML time (I think). However as long as neither of them puts up a 2009 Hardy-like season I won't be disappointed.

[ILuvDaBush]

Agree with Logan and Luther Campbell. Escobar will undoubtedly have a higher average than Gomez, but Gomez should have a higher OBA and SLG. SB's...that's the real question. Nevertheless, I have high hopes for both young gents.

[endaround]

Yeah, I don't see Gomez hitting .271. I think .260 is generous for a guy with a career average of .246 in over 1100 PAs. Bump Gomez's average down by 10-15 points and everything tumbles down with it.

[Ennder]

Gomez's 70th percentile PECOTA is .270/.329/.406 and 3.1 WARP. His 50th is .259/.315/.391 and 2.4 WARP. I think his improvements in strike zone recognition last year is going to push him up closer to that 70th percentile ranking though maybe a little more of the OBP comes from BB than from AVG.

 

I think Escobar will put up a pretty similar line to be honest. Both of them have a lot of variance in their game because it is low power, low BB so heavily BABIP driven.

[TooLiveBrew]

I know TheCrew07 has made this point before, but judging from Escobar's frame, he should really be able to put on some more muscle without hampering his athleticism & speed. I'm no physiologist, but another ~15 lbs. really doesn't seem out of the question. While he won't hit for much power now, I don't think projecting him to hit 20 HRs or more down the road is out of the question.

 

 

http://media.jsonline.com/images/360*600/mjs-brewers-spring-trainingg(2).jpg

 

 

Some (JS) photo evidence to support my claim -- he really has some broad shoulders

[TheCrew07]

Wow he's still such a twig... I really hate him playing winter ball. Get in the weight room and become a better athlete like Brantley dang it!

[Yeti73]

Hart looks bigger in that picture too. Did he put on some weight/muscle or is Alcides just that small?

[Invader3K]

Actually Hart has said he actually lost some weight in the off-season, doing that "Insanity" workout or whatever. I think Escobar is just very slim.

 

I heard Villanueva lost like 20 pounds this off-season as well.

[JohnBriggs12]

FYI on Escobar:

 

That's what all young baseball players used to look like before the 1990's. Young players in general looked sleek and athletic, particularly Latin infielders.. The body that some describe as "such a twig", is what has enabled him to do what he does. He's added some strength. He's got an extremely athletic frame, wide at the shoulders and narrow at the hips. He started out as I recall at about 145 pounds when the Brewer signed him at age 17. They now list him at 180.

 

He just turned 23. He'll naturally add another 10-15 pounds of muscle and he'll develop more power. Find a picture of Aaron at age 23. Aaron was no more than 170 pounds soaking wet in those days.

[TheCrew07]

FYI on Escobar:

 

That's what all young baseball players used to look like before the 1990's. Young players in general looked sleek and athletic, particularly Latin infielders.. The body that some describe as "such a twig", is what has enabled him to do what he does. He's added some strength. He's got an extremely athletic frame, wide at the shoulders and narrow at the hips. He started out as I recall at about 145 pounds when the Brewer signed him at age 17. They now list him at 180.

 

He just turned 23. He'll naturally add another 10-15 pounds of muscle and he'll develop more power. Find a picture of Aaron at age 23. Aaron was no more than 170 pounds soaking wet in those days.

Isn't that what I've been saying all along?

 

His size doesn't enable him to do the things he does in the field, his natural athleticism does. With proper training he might even pickup half a step, I don't want to take this too far off track but proper strength training doesn't make athletes slower and less nimble, it's make them quicker and stronger, and when combined with proper stretching techniques it can make them faster.

 

There are a couple of organizations that get it, they want their players to become the best athletes possible which is why I brought up Cleveland and Brantley... no one in Cleveland is telling Brantley too keep the ball on the ground and use speed, nor did they send him to winter ball. Instead they wanted him to focus on becoming a more well rounded athlete and develop strength so he's more than just a singles hitter (which is what he's good at right Ken?), that's the approach I wish the Brewers would take throughout the entire organization.

 

I remember lots of talk about how baseball players shouldn't lift weights through the 80s and early 90s... the only true part of that idea was that athletes in general should not train like power lifters or body builders. The idea should be to build strength and increase flexibility, which in turn helps the player become a better athlete, not to hit ground balls and waste time playing winter ball.

[Invader3K]

I think there's some merit to what you're saying, but I think the Brewers realize what a commodity they have in Escobar, so I would tend to defer to their handling of him. Do you really think playing in winter ball is truly just a "waste of time?"

[TooLiveBrew]

I heard Villanueva lost like 20 pounds this off-season as well.

 

That's interesting -- when I saw this pic of Villy in the JS photo gallery, I thought to myself that he looked like he'd slimmed down.

 

 

http://media.jsonline.com/images/416*600/carlos022610.jpg

 

 

That's what all young baseball players used to look like before the 1990's.

 

No, it's not. It's what young baseball players with slender, lanky frames looked like.

[Mr QL]

Escobar in everything but maybe slugging