The Worldwide Leader in Thin-skinned Overreaction

[JimH5]

It feels like time for another ESPN-bashing thread!

 

Tony Kornheiser has been suspended for two weeks from Pardon the Interruption for making rude on-air comments about Hannah Storm's clothing,

 

He has a two-hour local radio show in Washington DC, and he recently made the following attack while Storm was on the morning SportsCenter (text taken from The Big Lead):

 

“Hannah Storm in a horrifying, horrifying outfit today. She’s got on red go-go boots and a catholic school plaid skirt … way too short for somebody in her 40s or maybe early 50s by now.” [she's 47.] “She’s got on her typically very, very tight shirt. She looks like she has sausage casing wrapping around her upper body … I know she’s very good, and I’m not supposed to be critical of ESPN people, so I won’t … but Hannah Storm … come on now! Stop! What are you doing? … She’s what I would call a Holden Caulfield fantasy at this point.”

 

I like Kornheiser, and find his radio show to be funny, topical and interesting. I podcast it every day and I did cringe a little when he said those things. . .but a two-week suspension?!? That's absurd.

 

Bill Simmons has had similar problems--getting into trouble with criticizing fellow ESPNers. Since leaving the network, Dan Patrick has been pretty critical of ESPN management's pettiness.

 

It just seems they can't stand any kind of criticism from inside.

[Invader3K]

Trenni was on the D-List yesterday talking about this very issue. She made the comment that she's sure Storm probably has some sort of wardrobe person, and they should probably be smarter how they dress her at this point. I didn't see the outfit in question. A two week suspension for something like this is pretty silly, especially since he apparently already apologized to Storm about it.

[BrewCrewForever]

There is also talk that the suspension has something to do with comments made about Chris Berman and his weight on the same show that Tony ripped Hanah Storm. You can check that out on Deadspin.com. I think it is ridiculous, I love Kornheiser find him very funny. Currently reading his book "I'm Back For More Cash" and I download the PTI podcast daily since I am at work when it airs on TV.

[Flood Pants]

A two-week suspension for what is essentially sexual harassment? I'd say he got off easy.

 

Let me re-word that a bit stronger. A two-week suspension for what is definitely sexual harassment. He's lucky to still have a job. No overreaction here at all.

[Invader3K]

I don't see how criticizing someone's choice of on-air attire constitutes sexual harassment.

[RobertR]

Public criticism of a person's wardrobe isn't sexual harassment. If it is, Joan Rivers is the world champ.

 

The Holden Caufield comment probably is over the line, but frankly this is only an issue because ESPN tried to make it an issue.

 

Robert

[thebruce44]

A two-week suspension for what is essentially sexual harassment? I'd say he got off easy.

 

Let me re-word that a bit stronger. A two-week suspension for what is definitely sexual harassment. He's lucky to still have a job. No overreaction here at all.

When did asking someone to cover up constitute sexual harassment? Harold Reynolds hugging interns you can make a case for. This...come on!

[RayKingsForemanGrill]

I'm admitting a sin: I've never read Catcher in the Rye, but I am aware if its sexual connotations and will probably pick it up in the wake of Mr. Salinger's death.

 

The only part of the comment that could potentially be sexual harassment is the Holden Caufield comment. So, to figure out what Tony's potential context was, I did what any good student who hasn't read his homework would do: I checked Spark Notes, and it reads:

 

"Moreover, he is disturbed by the fact that he is aroused by women whom he doesn’t respect or care for, like the blonde tourist he dances with in the Lavender Room, or like Sally Hayes, whom he refers to as “stupid” even as he arranges a date with her. Finally, he is disturbed by the fact that he is aroused by kinky sexual behavior—particularly behavior that isn’t respectful of one’s sex partner, such as spitting in one’s partner’s face. Although Holden refers to such behavior as “crumby,” he admits that it is pretty fun, although he doesn’t think that it should be."

 

If this is what Tony meant by her being a "Holden Caufield fantasy", I have no problem with some time off.

[PlayerHader]

Holden pays for a #**%@% in the book, too. He doesn't end up doing anything with her, but I would guess that is the reference. That is where I feel TK goes over the line a bit. Say that about some random celebrity and you're fine. Lay off the co-workers.

 

And Hannah Storm's outfit was absolutely ridiculous. I'll see if I can snag a picture.

http://thebiglead.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Hannah-Storm-SportsCenter-outfit.jpg

Found a picture. Only know how to post a link. She deserves to get picked on for wearing that.

[TooLiveBrew]

Speculation is that Kornheiser was also suspended because he & a co-host of PTI joked about Berman's weight:

Kornheiser: "I know I'm not supposed to be critical of ESPN people, like if I point out that people say that they lost 50 or 60 pounds have actually gained all the weight back..."

Gary Braun: "And then some. Gained the weight back, back, back, back."

Deadspin link 1

Deadspin link 2

[FVBrewerFan]

Public criticism of a person's wardrobe isn't sexual harassment. If it is, Joan Rivers is the world champ.

 

 

 

Nice analogy. I'm forced to watch some of this red carpet stuff, and this group (including Joan) carve up people in great detail for how they look. While I don't think Tony K. should have been suspended for what he said, he also should have known better.

[RayKingsForemanGrill]

Public criticism of a person's wardrobe isn't sexual harassment. If it is, Joan Rivers is the world champ.

 

 

 

Nice analogy. I'm forced to watch some of this red carpet stuff, and this group (including Joan) carve up people in great detail for how they look. While I don't think Tony K. should have been suspended for what he said, he also should have known better.

I'm fairly confident he wasn't suspended for describing what she was wearing. Pretty sure it was the "Holden Caufield fantasy" comment that put it over the top.

[hawing]

I'm fairly confident he wasn't suspended for describing what she was wearing. Pretty sure it was the "Holden Caufield fantasy" comment that put it over the top.

Just to contribute one woman's opinion, if someone used a phrase like "Holden Caulfield fantasy" in reference to me, I'd feel kind of threatened.

The outfit (as linked to above) was actually less bad than I'd expected...except for the boots. Ouch.

[bjkrautk]

I'm fairly confident he wasn't suspended for describing what she was wearing. Pretty sure it was the "Holden Caufield fantasy" comment that put it over the top.

I guess I don't see the distinction between the 'Holden Caufield' reference and saying that ESPN appears to be fetish-izing Hannah Storm's wardrobe, with tight tops, school-girl skirts, and high-cut leather boots.

 

Don't watch ESPN much outside of games I care about (NFL pre-game / NFL matchup shows, NFL draft, and NCAA tournament selection analysis being the exceptions), but there's always a certain boundary line that networks tread when using female reporters / anchors / analysts. It's not that we care about the background stories being covered during the basketball game....but if they're being discussed with Erin Andrews, our attention perks up. Ditto why Suzy Kolber will never want to be in a room with Joe Namath, ever. Guys are simple: we like sports and we like looking at pretty girls. When someone pulls back the curtain at ESPN a bit, and force you to think about the pairing, the higher-ups get nervous.

 

 

[thebruce44]

I see the Holden Caufield reference as extremely insulting, insinuating that at best she is someone you would hook up with but don't find attractive. Again, insulting but I can't stand when people throw around sexual harassment acquisitions like this. It really diminishes actual sexual harassment.

[berniebrewer4life]

Holy cow. REALLY espn? OK, let's go down the list.

 

1. This is not sexual harassment, it is no where near sexual harassment. If you think it is, go to your HR/Union Rep and tell them someone made fun of your outfit, and you think it's sexual Harassment. You will probably be laughed out of the room.

 

2. The outfit was dumb. Let's not beat around the bush, if you are wearing prostitute boots, you better not be over the age of say, 26, or...well.....a prostitute

 

3. The berman thing was out of line, yes. But worthy of 2 weeks suspension? Not in my mind. This is the first real controversy he has been in, and it's not that major. I would have had an exec talk to him and give him the ole "don't do it again" speech.

 

4. He was being a jerk, plain and simple. Both the hannah comment and the berman comment were in bad taste. However, HE'S A RADIO TALK SHOW HOST! He's allowed to have an opinion. And, when that opinion really isn't that controversial, or offensive, you should just let him speak. Congrats ESPN for overreacting.

[thebruce44]

Holy cow. REALLY espn? OK, let's go down the list.

 

1. This is not sexual harassment, it is no where near sexual harassment. If you think it is, go to your HR/Union Rep and tell them someone made fun of your outfit, and you think it's sexual Harassment. You will probably be laughed out of the room.

Just to be clear, I haven't heard ESPN mention anything about sexual harassment. My comment was in response to Flood Pants' post about it being "definitely sexual harassment." When ESPN thinks you harassed someone you get sent to MLB Network, not suspended.

[RayKingsForemanGrill]

To put it bluntly, the "Holden Caufield fantasy"insinuation, in context, translates something like this:

 

She's trashy and dresses inappropriately, but I'd still do her.

 

There's not much ambiguous about that. Holden Caufield is a very, very specific reference.

 

In no workplace I know of would that be acceptable. Not necessarily two weeks suspension, but certainly a good sit down and a stern talking to. It's not appropriate.

[RobertR]

To me, I don't think the "I'd still do her" is what Kornheiser is getting at. I think it goes no farther than, she's dressed like a streetwalker. Which probably is over the line, but I don't think Tony actually thinks or wanted to imply that Hannah Storm is the equivalent of a streetwalker, only that she dressed poorly.

 

Robert

[PlayerHader]

To put it bluntly, the "Holden Caufield fantasy"insinuation, in context, translates something like this:

 

She's trashy and dresses inappropriately, but I'd still do her.

 

There's not much ambiguous about that. Holden Caufield is a very, very specific reference.

 

In no workplace I know of would that be acceptable. Not necessarily two weeks suspension, but certainly a good sit down and a stern talking to. It's not appropriate.

How has the guy who never read the book become the interpretor for it? I can't say with any certainty what TK meant with the reference, but Holden Caulfield didn't spend time with trashy or inappropriate women. Well, except for the $$$*$#, who he didn't "do."

[RayKingsForemanGrill]

To put it bluntly, the "Holden Caufield fantasy"insinuation, in context, translates something like this:

 

She's trashy and dresses inappropriately, but I'd still do her.

 

There's not much ambiguous about that. Holden Caufield is a very, very specific reference.

 

In no workplace I know of would that be acceptable. Not necessarily two weeks suspension, but certainly a good sit down and a stern talking to. It's not appropriate.

How has the guy who never read the book become the interpretor for it? I can't say with any certainty what TK meant with the reference, but Holden Caulfield didn't spend time with trashy or inappropriate women. Well, except for the $$$*$#, who he didn't "do."

I'm an English minor and managed a bookstore for two years - haven't read it but know a thing or two about it. Not to mention the quote from the summary I posted earlier. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to know that Holden Caufield is a symbol of sexual frustration...

[berniebrewer4life]

Just to be clear, I haven't heard ESPN mention anything about sexual harassment. My comment was in response to Flood Pants' post about it being "definitely sexual harassment." When ESPN thinks you harassed someone you get sent to MLB Network, not suspended.

Yea, that was more a comment towards the talk show hosts and other outlets i have heard mentioned it, than ESPN itself.

[RayKingsForemanGrill]

Or, Fortheloveofweeks, if you prefer, give your workplace appropriate definition of a "Holden Caufield Fantasy."

[PlayerHader]

It doesn't matter what my workplace definition is. Besides, I'm currently unemployed so I could go a lot of places with that one. ;-)

 

I just thought it was funny that you went from admitting your own ignorance on the subject in your first post to becoming the authority on what the term can and should be interpreted as.

 

No hard feelings, pal.

 

Oh, and I was an English major, but I don't feel that makes me any more able to interpret TK's statement than you.

 

And one more thing. I generally agree with your interpretation, but I'd rather avoid making it any more black and white than it is. I enjoy Holden's narrative far too much to do that.

[jwill535]

Whether it matters or not, but I would venture to say that 99% of people in offices, outside of libraries or ones dominated by English majors, would have any idea what the "Holden Caufield Fantasy" is or even what it means.