Big Ten Expansion

[JoeHova]

These amounts of money people are talking about in terms of TV revenue are a pittance. Wisconsin spends 3/4s of a billion dollars a year on pure research. Texas has a $16 billion endowment. People are making a mistake when they assume that these institutions will allow themselves to be debased for the sake of a few million dollars in football revenue. The overall picture comes into play for colleges that are this large and prestigious. The athletic departments are important for getting donors excited and so forth but every Big Ten college is arguably one of the top 50 universities in the world. No other conference can say that. Keeping that reputation intact will (hopefully) be an important consideration in who the Big Ten attempts to get as their 12th (and 13th and 14th) member(s).

[berniebrewer4life]

These amounts of money people are talking about in terms of TV revenue are a pittance. Wisconsin spends 3/4s of a billion dollars a year on pure research. Texas has a $16 billion endowment. People are making a mistake when they assume that these institutions will allow themselves to be debased for the sake of a few million dollars in football revenue. The overall picture comes into play for colleges that are this large and prestigious. The athletic departments are important for getting donors excited and so forth but every Big Ten college is arguably one of the top 50 universities in the world. No other conference can say that. Keeping that reputation intact will (hopefully) be an important consideration in who the Big Ten attempts to get as their 12th (and 13th and 14th) member(s).

I agree, and this is why i think Texas would join the Big Ten. Texas is an excellent research school. Having them join the CIC would be just as appealing, and just as(if not bigger) big a reason to join the big ten as for sports.

[JJHardy7]

I think it really makes it clear how important academics (and the rest of the $) will be to this. Very interesting read.

 

The TV revenue really isn't that huge of a deal considering Texas' endowment is twice the size of the next public university. I know academics and such are important to the Big 10...but if Texas is already ranked as an elite school per that article...what is the benefit to moving to the Big 10? To further move themselves up the ladder? I guess I could buy that, but it's not as if Texas isn't a fine academic institution. I do agree with the point brought up about the long-term future of the Big 12, but I think that could go for a few other conferences as well.

 

I guess from the Big 10's view...Texas would be the haul. I just don't know if I'm a UW fan or OSU fan I'm real thrilled about Texas coming to the Big 10. It will be interesting to see what happens.

[JoeHova]

berniebrewer4life wrote:

 

Having them join the CIC would be just as appealing, and just as(if not bigger) big a reason to join the big ten as for sports.

Yes. I read that the 12 schools in the CIC award 15% of all PhDs in the US. That's unbelievable and a testament to the academic strength of the Big Ten.

[PlayerHader]

I think it really makes it clear how important academics (and the rest of the $) will be to this. Very interesting read.

 

The TV revenue really isn't that huge of a deal considering Texas' endowment is twice the size of the next public university. I know academics and such are important to the Big 10...but if Texas is already ranked as an elite school per that article...what is the benefit to moving to the Big 10? To further move themselves up the ladder? I guess I could buy that, but it's not as if Texas isn't a fine academic institution. I do agree with the point brought up about the long-term future of the Big 12, but I think that could go for a few other conferences as well.

 

I guess from the Big 10's view...Texas would be the haul. I just don't know if I'm a UW fan or OSU fan I'm real thrilled about Texas coming to the Big 10. It will be interesting to see what happens.

The fact that Texas is a big-time academic and research university would only make Big Ten more appealing to them. Joining the CIC would open doors to HUGE amounts of funding and research opportunity.

I'm not sure if you read it, but if you didn't, take a look at the link I posted in my previous post. It is very informative.

 

[Menace II Sobriety]

I remember seeing on PTI when Mack Brown got his latest extension that the Texas athletic program made about 74 million last year and the 2nd highest earning team in the nation made about 40 million. These are not exact figures but are in the ballpark, I just remember that they almost double any other school in the nation. You always want more money that they are raking it in already.

[JJHardy7]

The fact that Texas is a big-time academic and research university would only make Big Ten more appealing to them. Joining the CIC would open doors to HUGE amounts of funding and research opportunity.

 

I'm not sure if you read it, but if you didn't, take a look at the link I posted in my previous post. It is very informative.

 

I read pieces of it...I might have missed something. What are HUGE amounts though? I'm not saying you are wrong. I probably missed something. Like I said...I agree if they move and they get a lot more $$$ that makes sense. I guess from just glancing at that article I didn't see that...I may have missed it. And again...Texas has so much $$$ it won't be a money play. If it leads to the school being better and such sure...it is clear though (IMO at least) it is not about $$$. I think it would have to be a significant amount of $$$ or a way to gain additional respect as an institution (which I think it would if they moved). I guess what I'm saying is that Texas is doing very well where they are today. And I do apologize for not reading the entire article you posted...I might have missed something very obvious. I still can't get over the fact that Texas doubles any other public university's endowment....that is crazy. That is one of the major reasons I'm not sold on the CIC (not saying at all it is a bad program...it obviously is a great and prestigious program). I just don't know enough on Texas' end where they stand. Clearly they have $$$. I guess what I am saying is when you have $12 - $15 billion...what else do you need? And like I've said...I don't know the answer...but how does moving to the Big 10 help Texas considering they are a premier public university? We can talk all day about how great the Big 10 academics are (and they are), but it's not like Texas is some mediocre institution...

EDIT - I just want to be clear Texas has an endowment of $12 billion (in 2009) or double the next public university...I know the CIC is awesome and what it can do. I just don't know how the change to the Big 10 would help a university that at least looks like it is in a class of its own in terms of endowment funds.

[Katuluu]

Well for one the endowment for Texas is for the entire Texas school system, which includes 9 universities and 6 health institutions, not just solely for the University of Texas @ Austin. Endowments can skew based on size as well, as the Texas endowment covers over 190K students, while Ohio State's (the second largest university in the US) covers ~55K. That being said Texas @ Austin still ranks fairly high in endowment per student but the gap isn't as large as you perceive it to be.

 

Secondly, universities only spend 5% of their endowments, so grants/subsidies are far more valuable to them. A $50 million grant is worth as much to a university as $1 billion in endowment. Getting in the CIC would open Texas to a massive amount of grant money that would relatively dwarf their endowment.

[JJHardy7]

I believe the University of Texas @ Austin has roughly half of the endowment.

 

How much more money are we talking about with the CIC? That is the thing I'm clearly missing.

[MJLiverock]

Endowments aren't just a function of how "academically respected" a university is, but also how big and how rich the alumni base is and how aggressive the investment managers are with the investments. For instance, Harvard's $35B endowment fund, was very aggressive in investing the money and at one point in early 2009 they were down $8B just due to investment performance and warned they expected it to get worse. Some endowment's include athletic donations, some don't. But key is the grants for specific research which are usually tied to professors and not the size of the endowment or athletic conference affiliation.

[Brewtacular]

Screw Texas, let's get serious about expansion and merge with the Pac-10 making a new super conference that will dominate the world. The Big-Pac.

[JJHardy7]

Texas isn't a bad school or anything of that nature...that has been one of my points.

 

http://colleges.usnews.ra...eges/national-top-public

 

I know rankings are obviously debatable, but Texas is a pretty well respected public institution.

[PlayerHader]

Which should be viewed as a strong strong reason why both parties would be attracted to Texas joining the Big Ten. That doesn't at all diminish the appeal of joining the Big Ten. If Texas aims to improve it's standing as an elite research university, joining the CIC would be very appealing.

[JJHardy7]

Which should be viewed as a strong strong reason why both parties would be attracted to Texas joining the Big Ten. That doesn't at all diminish the appeal of joining the Big Ten. If Texas aims to improve it's standing as an elite research university, joining the CIC would be very appealing.

 

What are the benefits of joining the Big 10 though? Again, I'm not saying I have the answers...that has been my question from the start of the rumor. Not what the Big 10 offers...but specifically what does the Big 10 offer Texas? I really don't know if we have the answers on this thread, but there are some advantages, but it's not like Texas is a mediocre program...I'm sure if it makes sense on Texas' side...they'll consider it. From a sports view...it doesn't make a lot of sense IMO. This has a more academic fit than sports...I guess we'll see.

[MJLiverock]

It makes sports sense because they can double or more their TV revenues without lowering competition and without comprimising academic standards. It really is that simple. The athletic department doesn't give a hoot how big the endowment is, that money is totally seperate from their budget. If the size of the endowment mattered one bit to the athletic department then NW wouldn't play in a high school gym. Texas athletics make a lot of money now but if switching to the Big 10 gives them an additional $10-$15MM per year why wouldn't they look at it? Rarely does any shcool, business or person, turn down more money no matter how much they already make.

[JJHardy7]

It makes sports sense because they can double or more their TV revenues without lowering competition and without comprimising academic standards. It really is that simple. The athletic department doesn't give a hoot how big the endowment is, that money is totally seperate from their budget. If the size of the endowment mattered one bit to the athletic department then NW wouldn't play in a high school gym. Texas athletics make a lot of money now but if switching to the Big 10 gives them an additional $10-$15MM per year why wouldn't they look at it? Rarely does any shcool, business or person, turn down more money no matter how much they already make.

 

I'm not discussing the revenue side in my point. From a sports sense (specifically football), Texas has made a BCS bowl 4 out of 6 years. Why change? Again, I'm not discussing the revenue...from a pure revenue aspect Texas is ranked high (number 1 according to some sources). They just had (depending on which publications you look at) a top 2 recruiting class. Clearly things are working well for them in the Big 12. And like I said...they already bring in a lot of revenue and making a BCS game no doubt brings the school additional revenue and national attention.

 

And from a team perspective in the Big 10...why would you want to add Texas to football? I understand that maybe you take in a few more million dollars and such, but IMO that is going to change the competitive landscape. A team like Wisconsin would have a much more difficult time competing with a team like Texas. I know things go in cycles, but the fact that Texas will be recruiting from an entirely different pool of athletes than most of the Big 10 is really going to make it difficult for some teams to get to a major bowl/BCS bowl.

[PlayerHader]

As a Badger fan I'd be ecstatic getting Texas into the Big 10. That would only help us recruiting in that hot spot for football talent. Wisconsin is always going to struggle to keep up with a team like Texas, but the same can be said for OSU. It certainly makes the conference tougher, but if that was a major issue we should join the MAC.

 

About Texas leaving the Big 12...that conference is on rocky ground. Colorado has been interested in joining the Pac-10 for years. Mizzou would likely jump at the chance to join the Big Ten. Once a team jumps, the conference faces collapse which would leave Texas and other schools scrambling. They may just be interested in choosing their destiny while they still have a choice.

[JJHardy7]

About Texas leaving the Big 12...that conference is on rocky ground. Colorado has been interested in joining the Pac-10 for years. Mizzou would likely jump at the chance to join the Big Ten. Once a team jumps, the conference faces collapse which would leave Texas and other schools scrambling. They may just be interested in choosing their destiny while they still have a choice.

 

I disagree on it being a huge recruiting edge, but I guess we'll see if it happens. You do bring up a good point about the state of the Big 12. I don't think it would be a huge blow if Missouri would leave. If Texas left, that would be a major blow. Oklahoma and Texas are two elite football programs and the Big 12 needs to keep those teams in their conference. I say that Missouri wouldn't be a huge blow because they might be able to find a capable replacement (maybe TCU?). That's not a knock on Missouri. I also have no clue if TCU would be a good fit in the Big 12, but as of late they've shown to be a pretty good football program.

[sbrylski]

No joke, I had a dream last night that all the Arizona Fall League teams joined the Big Ten, and they played their home basketball games at my old high school with each team having a section of the stairwell for a locker room.

[TooLiveBrew]

Doing recaps on AFL performance for Rotowire lately? http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[phxMILWfan]

I saw on PTI today that Nebraska is open to joining the Big Ten. I wouldn't mind Nebraska. I'd be thrilled if they added Texas, Nebraska and another school though.

[Point Beer Is Best]

I saw on PTI today that Nebraska is open to joining the Big Ten. I wouldn't mind Nebraska. I'd be thrilled if they added Texas, Nebraska and another school though.

I read an article that suggested that Texas, Missouri, and Nebraska all jump to the Big 10 to form a 14 team super conference. That would certainly take a huge chunk out of the Big 12.

[RyDogg66]

With Texas, Missouri and Nebraska the Big 10 would be loaded. Any school (that has been mentioned) but Rutgers would be great. I think the Big 12 could be in trouble. If Texas or Nebraska leaves for the Big 10, then I think Colorado would push for a Pac 10 transfer. Of course, the Big 12 could probably then reload with Utah, TCU and Boise State, not that those schools are on the level of Texas and Nebraska in overall athletics, but they would seem to be the logical solutions to maintain the Big 12 as an elite conference.

[paul253]

If they are going to do that they should go for the gold and shoot for Oklahoma instead of Missouri. I don't know anything about Oklahoma's academics though. Are they Big 10 material? Athletics wise they'd be a better get than Missouri, and I can't imagine they'd want to stay in the Big 12 if Texas and Nebraska leave. If they could get Texas and Nebraska or Texas and Oklahoma I'd go up to Notre Dame and say, "Look, we just got two of the biggest and most elite programs in the country. We opened up our TV market to a huge new market and if you join you'd make tons of money. You're not going to get another shot." Notre Dame, Texas, and Nebraska/Oklahoma and I don't know if there would be anything any other conference could do to top that.

[TooLiveBrew]

Of course, the Big 12 could probably then reload with Utah, TCU and Boise State, not that those schools are on the level of Texas and Nebraska in overall athletics, but they would seem to be the logical solutions to maintain the Big 12 as an elite conference.

 

An elite football conference, but not an elite conference overall.