Narveson or Parra

[BREWERPRIDE]

Villaneuva has options, Narveson doesn't. But Riske then becomes a wildcard. If Riske is ready say in May do you try to pass Narveson through waivers during cutdown in hopes to get him through during the mass of people and then option Villaneuva down when Riske is ready to go? Do you not take the risk and plan on someone having to miss sometime at some point early on and option Villaneuva down?

Does Villa really have options? I dont think he does. No way Narveson will pass waivers, so I say either stick him down in AAA till we need him.

[TooLiveBrew]

You can't send Narveson to AAA if he is out of options. He would have to pass through waivers to get there.

[CheezWizHed]

If Riske comes back and is strong in ST, I think you will see us trade an RP. Probably Vargas, but perhaps Coffey or Riske himself.

 

My hope is that they keep Riske on IR to start the season, let him get some work in the minors for a week or two, then (assuming he looks strong) bring him up when someone else falters.

[Funketown]

To start the season, I'd like to see:

 

1) Gallardo

2) Wolf

3) Davis

4) Bush

5) Parra

 

CL) Hoffman

SU) Coffey

SU) Hawkins

LOOGY) Stetter

MRP) Villanueva

MRP) Vargas

MRP) Suppan/Narveson

 

I don't like the idea of keeping Parra out of the rotation to start the season in favor of Suppan or Narveson. If Parra implodes, then I'd be fine with moving either Suppan or Narveson into the rotation depending on which of the two had shown the most.

 

As for Suppan, the argument that he should not be cut because he is making that salary is silly. Suppan's contract is a sunk cost; it should not effect whether or not the team plays him. I haven't seen many on here making that argument, but you definitely see bad contracts finding the field for no apparent reason other than their price.

[endaround]

Does Villa really have options? I dont think he does. No way Narveson will pass waivers, so I say either stick him down in AAA till we need him.

The brewerfan 40 man page has the best list of options remaining out there (it will occasionally miss on extra options granted but thats because unless brewerfan asks no one else who isn't working directly on the issue for the Brewers knows either)

http://www.brewerfan.net/ViewFortyManRoster.do?teamId=1

[TooLiveBrew]

To start the season, I'd like to see:

1) Gallardo 3.66
2) Wolf 4.23
3) Davis 4.61
4) Bush 4.78
5) Parra 4.90

CL) Hoffman 3.45
SU) Coffey 3.91
SU) Hawkins 3.60
LOOGY) Stetter 3.64
MRP) Villanueva 4.03
MRP) Vargas 4.12
MRP) Suppan//Narveson 5.43//4.18

I like this scenario. And honestly when I look at this, Suppan looks like the odd man out for my preferences. Not because of the salary or blind loathing of him... I just like the idea of having Narveson as a second lefty in the bullpen. Vargas could probably man the long-RP & spot-starter roles about as capably as Soup. Though others are correct, imo, in that Villy may well start the season at Nashville.

 

I inserted the CHONE ERA projections for each guy, fwiw. Not a bad looking pitching staff at all (since I'm of the opinion that both Bush & Parra could easily be below Davis's projection). As an aside, I really hope Macha uses Gallardo as the #1 SP this season from the get-go, and in addition uses him on regular four-days' rest to open the season -- that would see him start on OD, again v. STL, & then to close the following three-game series at Wrigley (along with the final game of the three-game set against the Cubs at MP later in April). If Macha makes sure each guy gets his turn, however, Yo wouldn't make a start at Wrigley

[Milltownhooker]

Narverson is too valuable as rotation insurance to try & pass thru waivers. If it comes down to Suppan vs Narverson gotta bite the bullett & send Suppan somewhere else.

[trwi7]

If I recall correctly, didn't Macha state at one point a while back, definitely prior to Davis, that the only certain things in the rotation were Yo and Parra (I can't remember if Wolf was included in there as well)? That would lead me to believe that, even with the additions, Parra would have a leg up on Suppan, Bush and Narveson for a rotation spot. And therefore would also appear unlikely to join the bullpen, and as others have mentioned he is out of options.

 

Obviously I don't have a link, but does anyone else remember reading this somewhere?

 

I remember that, but I think it was before free agency started so obviously Wolf and Davis are guarantees as well.

[TheCrew07]

As an aside, I really hope Macha uses Gallardo as the #1 SP this season from the get-go, and in addition uses him on regular four-days' rest to open the season -- that would see him start on OD, again v. STL, & then to close the following three-game series at Wrigley (along with the final game of the three-game set against the Cubs at MP later in April). If Macha makes sure each guy gets his turn, however, Yo wouldn't make a start at Wrigley

Is going every 4th day in Yo's best interests though? He pitched much better making every 5th start and staying under 110 pitchers last season. Every time Macha pushed him his next game and in some cases multiple games were below average from a Gamescore standpoint, at least early in the season. He didn't have a game with a score over 70 after July 25th... I'd rather not ride Yo into the ground chasing a goal that might not be attainable, especially after how hard he was pushed last season after barely pitching the year before. Why not let him get into that 26-27 year old range before we start riding him? It seems that teams will always talk about doing the right thing with young pitchers but when push comes to shove, they'll still ride them into the ground then bemoan the lack of pitching after the fact. He pitched 185+ plus innings in less than entire season, getting pushed to at least 110 pitches 12 times by my quick count, after only pitching 24 innings in 2008. It was irresponsible management by Macha and I'm shocked how long Melvin let it go.

 

Why wouldn't we all want Yo to be healthy and effective for as long as possible? Or any of our young pitchers for that matter? I'd rather not end up with the Brewer version of Cole Hamels... Hamels made a huge IP jump, then was ridden hard 2 straight years, then pitched well below the standard he had previously set. Was 2009 just an off year? Was he injured? I fully understand that many people around here think the window closes when we lose Fielder... but he's not the franchise at this point, Gallardo is. If we lose Yo we're done, we have no way to replace him, the only youngster with enough IP to step into the rotation and maybe enough talent is Rivas and he's never pitched above A+. Melvin hasn't shown any sort of willingness to trade for a high ceiling arm with any longevity to headline the rotation and we don't have the depth to trade for rental pitching every year ala Sabathia so where would our best pitching come from if not from Yo? I'm sorry but I don't see a rotation headlined by Wolf and Davis getting us to the promised land, with or without Fielder.

[TooLiveBrew]

Is going every 4th day in Yo's best interests though?

 

4 days' rest, not every 4th game... especially since that would mean three starts in April combined against STL & CHC. I didn't say I wanted Macha to stick with that all year long.

[TheCrew07]

Ack my bad, I meant on 4 days rest... no idea why I typed it the way I did.

 

The end result here would be that he picks up another 2 starts or so by years end? Maybe 36 starts instead of 34? I hope Peterson reigns Macha in, but an average of 6IP over 36 starts is 216 IP, but I would expect Yo to improve over his 6.12 or whatever from last season and be around 6.5 or so which would put him at 234 IP for the year. That would mean in consecutive years he'd go from 24 IP to 185ish to 234ish, all before his body has finished maturing as most men reach maturity around 24-25 years of age. I could see bumping up Rogers 60 IP per year because they already used an option on him and only have 2 remaining, but is it necessary with Yo? He's already here, he's already established, and we need him to anchor the rotation for years to come.

 

Every pitch past "fatigue" exponentially increases the risk of injury and the fatigue point is very difficult to pinpoint as all athletes will have a different threshold. The organization needs to be concerned about it from 3 angles; total pitches in an inning, total pitches in a game, and total pitches in a season. I sincerely hope that Yo is one of those rare players that can just plow through without a serious injury, but the evidence to the contrary when it comes to abusing young arms is overwhelming.

 

If we were talking about an established arm in his 26-28 year old seasons I would agree with you, in fact I wouldn't care how many IP he would get in a season, but that's just not the case here. I have no faith in Macha to look out for the best interests of the players, he needs to win and win now to get renewed, he doesn't have time to be patient with our youngsters, which he already proved last season.

[TooLiveBrew]

The end result, since -- once again -- all I'm talking about is April, is him making three combined starts against STL & CHN instead of two. I really don't see why you're taking it so seriously.

[Klements Bratwurst]

Narverson is too valuable as rotation insurance to try & pass thru waivers. If it comes down to Suppan vs Narverson gotta bite the bullett & send Suppan somewhere else.

Agree 100%! Keep the 90-91 MPH throwing lefthander and former second round pick and dump Suppan if it comes down to these two.

 

 

[Invader3K]

I really don't think Suppan is guaranteed a spot at this point. Melvin knows his job may be on the line this season, as is probably Macha's. They aren't going to risk bringing him back if he looks quite bad in spring training, and if other guys show themselves to obviously be better options.

[SoundsFan17]

I see Suppan in the 5th spot. I live in Nashville and go to a whole lot of Sounds games and I just can't see Narveson in the rotation. Maybe like a 7th inning relief guy. It was horrible when Soup came down here. Hard to watch. Especially since we saw probably the best game he threw in 09 in Atlanta like a week before.

[Diskono]

The Brewers in the last few years haven't kept Gagne as closer even though he was making $10M. They all but gave away Hall even though he was owed milions. Suppan may be given more chances because of his contract, but the first priority of everyone involved is winning this year. If Suppan isn't helping the team, nobody in the Brewers benefits from throwing him out there to attempt to justify a past mistake.

Don't forget Hammonds too. I think there's a decent chance Suppan is cut, if it comes down to him vs someone like Narveson.