Todd Wellemeyer

[Milltownhooker]

Worth a small major league deal or not. Of course he's worth a minor league invite, but I'm sure he can get that just about anywhere. Would be competition for Parra, & Narverson. Yes I omit Suppan. Don't care what his stats say. Similar to Bill Hall the eye ball test says he's done. Unless he gains a tick on his fastball & his off-spead stuff finds the low outside corner with regularity.

[nate82]

Worth a small major league deal or not. Of course he's worth a minor league invite, but I'm sure he can get that just about anywhere. Would be competition for Parra, & Narverson. Yes I omit Suppan. Don't care what his stats say. Similar to Bill Hall the eye ball test says he's done. Unless he gains a tick on his fastball & his off-spead stuff finds the low outside corner with regularity.

You are basically describing Wellemeyer in the last part of your post there. Wellemeyer is not a good starter if he wanted to be a reliever sure I could see the Brewers taking a chance on him but not as a starter. Parra and even Narveson have bigger upside than Wellemeyer does and I doubt Wellemeyer will have a better year than what Suppan will put up for the Brewers. The Brewers already have a Wellemeyer on the team and his name is Jeff Suppan there is no need for another.

[JohnBriggs12]

There are only so many innings in ST even with split squad, B games, minor league games etc. in which to get the guys you are counting on ready and the guys you need to evaluate a fair shot. They are holding open the possibility of bringing in Mulder who would be the 30th healthy pitcher in camp. I don't see them bringing in yet another unless a couple guys come up with sore arms.

 

Guys like Wellemeyer are scrambling now.

[Milltownhooker]

Worth a small major league deal or not. Of course he's worth a minor league invite, but I'm sure he can get that just about anywhere. Would be competition for Parra, & Narverson. Yes I omit Suppan. Don't care what his stats say. Similar to Bill Hall the eye ball test says he's done. Unless he gains a tick on his fastball & his off-spead stuff finds the low outside corner with regularity.

You are basically describing Wellemeyer in the last part of your post there. Wellemeyer is not a good starter if he wanted to be a reliever sure I could see the Brewers taking a chance on him but not as a starter. Parra and even Narveson have bigger upside than Wellemeyer does and I doubt Wellemeyer will have a better year than what Suppan will put up for the Brewers. The Brewers already have a Wellemeyer on the team and his name is Jeff Suppan there is no need for another

 

 

 

 

Wasn't any need for the 1sthttp://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/laugh.gif

 

 

[apirk]

I've seen enough of this guy living in STL to know I do not want him on the Brewers. He had a pretty good year a year or so ago but looked just awful last year.

[WisconsinSportsRule]

If Dave Duncan can't fix you, there's a problem.

[Ennder]

If Dave Duncan can't fix you, there's a problem.

 

Dave Duncan fixed Carpenter and that is it. I can't find a single other pitcher that saw a big improvement from him that they kept for more than a single season. Maybe Pineiro will be the 2nd one but pretty much every other starter that people have claimed he fixed were just one year wonders.

[apirk]

Yeah but they were good while they were under Duncan and then returned back to their usual selves when they left.

[TooLiveBrew]

Wellemeyer was a Cardinal again last season

[Ennder]

Yeah but they were good while they were under Duncan and then returned back to their usual selves when they left.

No that isn't true either. They were good for 1 year under Duncan and bad the next season.

 

Jason Marquis 'fixed' by Duncan in 2004 with a 3.71 ERA. Next season 4.13, season after that 6.02.

Jeff Suppan had a 4.37 ERA in 2001 in the AL and a 4.19 in 2003 and then went to the cardinals where he had one season with a sub 4 ERA and moved back to the low 4s.

Wellemeyer was 'fixed' by Duncan in 2008 and then in 2009 posted a 5.89 ERA.

Lohse was 'fixed' b Duncan in 2008 and then 2009 posted a 4.74 ERA which was higher than his career average.

 

All of these fixed by Duncan pitchers had one career year followed by reverting right back to their normal stats. He hasn't really fixed any pitcher long term other than maybe Carpenter.

[WisconsinSportsRule]

Yeah but they were good while they were under Duncan and then returned back to their usual selves when they left.

No that isn't true either. They were good for 1 year under Duncan and bad the next season.

 

Jason Marquis 'fixed' by Duncan in 2004 with a 3.71 ERA. Next season 4.13, season after that 6.02.

Jeff Suppan had a 4.37 ERA in 2001 in the AL and a 4.19 in 2003 and then went to the cardinals where he had one season with a sub 4 ERA and moved back to the low 4s.

Wellemeyer was 'fixed' by Duncan in 2008 and then in 2009 posted a 5.89 ERA.

Lohse was 'fixed' b Duncan in 2008 and then 2009 posted a 4.74 ERA which was higher than his career average.

 

All of these fixed by Duncan pitchers had one career year followed by reverting right back to their normal stats. He hasn't really fixed any pitcher long term other than maybe Carpenter.

How about Darryl Kile? Posted a 5.84 ERA in two seasons in Colorado and then came to STL and never posted an ERA lower than 3.91 in little more than 2 years.

And even Smoltz to a lesser extent. I know that isn't long term, but shaving your ERA in half during the season is pretty impressive and not all because he switched leagues.

 

[amt2138]

Darryl Kile had some pretty good years and a couple great years if I remember in Houston before going to Colorado, which when Kile was there was right in the middle of being pitcher's hell.

 

Smoltz may have been tipping his pitches or whatever in Boston and I guess Duncan fixed that. I find it pretty hard to believe that Smoltzy would tinker a whole lot with his delivery or pitches he throws at this point in his career. I attribute the "success" he had in St. Louis more to moving from the AL East to the NL. Similar to Brad Penney's success once he got to San Francisco after his Boston stint.

 

If Duncan fixed these guys, why wouldn't they continue the success after St. Louis? Would they forget what he said or just buy into what the pitching coach on the news team says? I don't know what I'm going for, I guess I just don't believe in the coach having much of an effect on pitchers after they reach a certain level. Young guys or guys coming off an injury sure, but seasoned guys who have had previous success... I just can't see it.

[TooLiveBrew]

Smoltz made four good starts & three bad starts with the Cards. I agree that it's hard to say whether or not Duncan or Smoltz fixed anything.

[WisconsinSportsRule]

If Duncan fixed these guys, why wouldn't they continue the success after St. Louis? Would they forget what he said or just buy into what the pitching coach on the news team says? I don't know what I'm going for, I guess I just don't believe in the coach having much of an effect on pitchers after they reach a certain level. Young guys or guys coming off an injury sure, but seasoned guys who have had previous success... I just can't see it.

I don't know about you, but if I signed somewhere else and I didn't listen to the pitching coach there, I don't think that would go over well. He does a good job with "reclamation" projects. For the most part, guys flourish under him only to leave and stink it up somewhere else.

There's got to be a reason he has the reputation of a great pitching coach. I don't think it's because he's lucky.

[amt2138]

For the most part, guys flourish under him only to leave and stink it up somewhere else.

Ennder wrote:

---

No that isn't true either. They were good for 1 year under Duncan and bad the next season.

 

Jason Marquis 'fixed' by Duncan in 2004 with a 3.71 ERA. Next season 4.13, season after that 6.02.

Jeff Suppan had a 4.37 ERA in 2001 in the AL and a 4.19 in 2003 and then went to the cardinals where he had one season with a sub 4 ERA and moved back to the low 4s.

Wellemeyer was 'fixed' by Duncan in 2008 and then in 2009 posted a 5.89 ERA.

Lohse was 'fixed' b Duncan in 2008 and then 2009 posted a 4.74 ERA which was higher than his career average.

 

All of these fixed by Duncan pitchers had one career year followed by reverting right back to their normal stats. He hasn't really fixed any pitcher long term other than maybe Carpenter.

I really don't think pitching coaches are going to be tinkering too much with a guy coming off a great year. Probably going to be reinforcing the things they did that year, instead of trying to completely overhaul the philosophy that worked for the guy.

 

I don't think Duncan is "just lucky" by any means, but he is no miracle worker either as a lot of those "reclamation" projects have gone back bad under his care.