Prince's Future

[Mass Haas]

I somtimes nod disagreeingly at the "Suppan - Hall - Riske money coming off the books" line of reasoning, in that it will free up money to sign Prince not only in the early years, but nearly for the life of his contract.

 

The reason I say this is that like it or not, there will be future contract mistakes made by Melvin or whoever eventually fills his seat, to not think so would be a bit unwise. It's one thing to live with that mostly dead money in 2010 at Prince's current salary. It's going to be more painful to live with similar mistakes when Prince is in the $20+ million stratosphere.

 

To think there won't be another dead money period like this over the next 6-8 seasons is failing to take that into account. You almost have to buffer any yearly budget for "mistakes".

 

The Red Sox can live with eating Edgar Renteria, Julio Lugo, Matt Clement type deals. The Brewers can, but only to the extent we're seeing in 2010.

[kramnoj]

I'm not sure I agree with that. The Brewers need to find a reasonable projection for Prince, decide how long he should be projected to be good, and determine what salary is reasonable for the Brewers while still being attractive for Prince. I don't think the Brewers should avoid making a good offer to Prince so that they can save money to make mistakes with. If anything, having a big contract on the books will shrink the money available for other contracts, and should put pressure on the club to spend that money wisely.

 

Sure, there will still be mistakes, but blaming Prince's contract for other mistakes and how they affect the Brewers seems too much like the Rangers blaming Arod for his contract when it was Park that was really killing the team.

[Invader3K]

I tend to go with that line of thinking, kramnoj. I think with Prince and Braun anchoring the team for the next 5 years or so, they will be poised to be very competitive. It will force Melvin to be very judicious in how he allocates the rest of his budget, and I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing.

 

Another factor that could play in the Brewers favor if they are serious about re-signing Prince is that another potential suitor may be off the market. There are a lot of rumors that the Red Sox may try to trade for Adrian Gonzalez. Presumably they would be able to re-sign him. With Texeira at 1B for the Yankees, that possibly eliminates two favorite Scott Boras leverage teams.

[endaround]

The big issue for Fielder are the two contracts coming up for Mauer and Pujols. Those would seem to set the ceiling for the new market. Mauer could get done anytime now and Pujols you'd think by next October.

[logan82]

The big issue for Fielder are the two contracts coming up for Mauer and Pujols. Those would seem to set the ceiling for the new market. Mauer could get done anytime now and Pujols you'd think by next October.

Those two might be giving hometown discounts though. I doubt we get the same from Fielder and Boras.

[kramnoj]

I don't think Mauer's contract is going to have anything to do with Fielder's contract, it certainly won't be any kind of ceiling for Prince. If Prince stays here, it would almost have to be at some kind of discount, but it won't approach the discount Mauer will accept.

[endaround]

Mauer is a better player than Fielder signing a contract with one year remaining. I think its very relevant not just to Fielder but to Pujols as well. I also think Pujols won't take much of a discount since he probably thinks he already gave St Louis a big one with his last contract.

[SoundsFan17]

I want to see it happen because I want to see the slack jawed look of the BoSox fans' and every other big market team when it's announced. I'm sick of those fans having it on easy street and getting whatever they want. We should get to keep at least one star player (we do have Braun, but at a huge discount). If we can't keep Prince, we may as well accept the fact we'll probably never win a World Series.

I agree 100%. Besides the fact that he has a great bat and clubhouse presence, having Braun and Fielder together gives the Brewers lineup a little mystique, similar to great combos for other teams: Manny and Big Papi, McGwire and Canseco, etc.. except without the steroids.

 

[RockCoCougars]

I think Mauer's deal will be a great starting point for Prince. Yes, there will be a hometown discount, but probably not too much. Another consideration is that with all of the Prince getting fat and old/ becoming Mo Vaughn talk, he has been much more durable than Mauer over the past few years. I would guess that Mauer has just as much if not more of a chance of breaking down once he hits 30. As far as Mauer being a better player, I would say that's a toss up. He's probably not going to be a catcher too much longer either.

 

If I'm the Brewers, I wait and see what Mauer gets and go from there. I obviously wouldn't do 10 years for Prince, but I'd do 5 with a higher average salary than Mauer. Pujols is less comparable in my view, because he is the better player but quite a bit older.

[TooLiveBrew]

Another consideration is that with all of the Prince getting fat and old/ becoming Mo Vaughn talk, he has been much more durable than Mauer over the past few years.

 

1B & C really don't compare well at all. And if Mauer breaks down at 30, he gets moved to 1B/DH, or where Fielder already plays.

[bucksbeat]

Personally I think the Brewers should look to give what Prince wants. I don't see Prince as being nearly as dangerous as offering a budget breaker to a pitcher (C.C.) who's arm could fall off, leaving the franchise out of luck. Sign him for 6, trade him in 4 or when Braun's contract inflates, Yo is due a raise, Prince can't stay at a healthy weight or some other financial trouble comes up. Between 4 players (Suppan, Hoffman, Hall, Riske) the Brewers have roughly 32.5 million coming off of the books next year, I don't think throwing Prince an extra $15 million would be a bad thing for a few years. I just don't see Prince as a guy who will lose his value when he is 29 or 30.

[JohnBriggs12]

Here's the situation the Brewers find themselves in. They could offer Fielder an outrageously large contract, say $200 million over 8 years, and in Scott Boras' mind all that means is that if the Brewers are willing to offer that much, the big markets will offer more.

 

The situations with Mauer and Pujols have one key element that the Brewers to this point lack with Fielder. Both the Twins and the Cards have been consistent winners in the time Mauer and Pujols have been with them. If playing for a winner is indeed a big incentive, the Twins and Cards have met that need for their stars. The Brewers contended in 07 and snuck into the wild card in 08, but fell back last year despite a monster season from Prince. A big 2010 season. and a postseason run that lasts longer than 4 games will go farther in securing Fielder's future as a Brewer than another $2 million per year on a contract offer. Another sub .500 season in 2010 and Fielder is a goner.

[brewerguy71]

Another sub .500 season in 2010 and Fielder is a goner.

Fielder may not even have a choice if that is what happens, the organization will decide for him by sending him packing. If the pitching surprises and keeps them in the hunt this year they might want to hold onto him for the duration of the season, but if theres a repeat of '09 they have to move him. Better to have a package of guys with upside potential and high ceilings than an expensive player entering their plateau years.

 

 

[Invader3K]

Yeah, I get the feeling if the Brewers tank early in the season, the smart move will be to trade him (assuming he doesn't sign a surprise extension between then and now). Otherwise ride him out this season, and then trade him next winter if it's clear he's going to leave in FA.

[monty57]

My first choice would be to sign him to a 4-5 year deal. Since that's seemingly more and more unlikely, I have to agree with Invader. I really don't want to see us only get comp picks for Fielder. We've seen with CC, Sheets, Linebrink and others that comp picks don't necessarily mean an extra #1. If Prince is not going to sign for a few more seasons with the Brewers, I think the best move will be to trade him. Whether that's this season, next offseason, or at the deadline 2011 will really be determined by how the team plays this year.

 

As an added note, the situation with the NY Mets, which is being talked about in another thread, really bears warning. My desire to see Prince signed is after a cursory glance of the franchise's make-up. Mark A. and Melvin need to crunch the numbers pretty hard to make sure that signing Prince wouldn't put us in a situation like the 2010 Mets, who seemingly will go into the season without a proven 1B or Catcher and not much SP due to the fact that big contracts at other positions have them at their budget limit.

[thebruce44]

Gary Howard with a terribe article today about how Prince must be signed for 5 yrs 100 mil, how the payroll must be raised $15 mill because the fans deserve it, and how Mark can afford it because of "the money in the vault at the bottom of that spacious Southern California palace you and Debbie and the A-Kids call home." A new low for the JS, but what I have come to expect from Mr. Howard. I especially like the very objective poll that is included.

 

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/brewers/84071437.html

[Invader3K]

re: thebruce44. Yeah, I saw that article this morning as well. It's stuff like that which is going to cause some fans to scream about how the Brewers "were just too cheap to pay him", on the day that Prince is either traded or leaves in free agency.

[logan82]

I get a very strong feeling that many fans think when Fielders leaves it is going to be "oh no, we suck again."

[Funketown]

re: thebruce44. Yeah, I saw that article this morning as well. It's stuff like that which is going to cause some fans to scream about how the Brewers "were just too cheap to pay him", on the day that Prince is either traded or leaves in free agency.

I love the poll, 5 years for 80, 100, 125, or 150. Could anybody even make a reasonable argument for Fielder getting 5 years 125 from the Brewers? If so, I'd like to see it.

 

He's a great player, but anyone who has ever managed a lemonade stand knows that if you buy too much sugar, you can't afford any lemons. This guy should go back to 6th grade personal budgeting class.

 

* I will admit, I did not read the article after hearing the synopsis.

[Dragonbait]

Don't bother... Never once does the guy say anything about pitching.

[Invader3K]

I get a very strong feeling that many fans think when Fielders leaves it is going to be "oh no, we suck again."

Well, he is basically the face of the team at this point (along with Braun), and probably the most popular player on the Brewers right now. It will be hard to see him go eventually.

 

Tom Haudricourt was talking about that a while back on 540 ESPN. He basically said it seems like people aren't even enjoying Prince as a player, because they are freaking out about him leaving. That is probably somewhat true, and kind of a shame.

[logan82]

Well, he is basically the face of the team at this point (along with Braun), and probably the most popular player on the Brewers right now. It will be hard to see him go eventually.

I understand that but I get the feeling many people don't think we can field a good team without him. There is a whole chicken little thing going on. It's gonna suck when he leaves but by no means does it mean we can't filed a very good team.

[Invader3K]

logan3825]I understand that but I get the feeling many people don't think we can field a good team without him. There is a whole chicken little thing going on. It's gonna suck when he leaves but by no means does it mean we can't filed a very good team.

Yes, but unfortunately the average fan just doesn't tend to think that way. They see our "best" player leaving and are going to think "Same old Brewers." It will be the franchise's job to quickly change that perception by getting some great talent for him in trade, or quickly replacing him if he leaves in FA with someone who is at least above average offensively.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Garry Howard is a clown, always has been, always will be. He can't write. How he is the editor of one of the best sports pages in the country is a testament to some of their writers, not him. It's a shame they are looped in with that turkey.

 

Prince Fielder is gone. Opening Day 2012, there is no chance he's in a Brewer uniform. There were a lot of people who thought CC Sabathia might look in his heart and sign with the Brewers. Fielder signing here is just as absurd. Just be glad we drafted him and enjoy watching him this year. There's no way he signs long term with the Brewers. None.

[marty22]

Garry Howard is a clown, always has been, always will be. He can't write. How he is the editor of one of the best sports pages in the country is a testament to some of their writers, not him. It's a shame they are looped in with that turkey.

 

Prince Fielder is gone. Opening Day 2012, there is no chance he's in a Brewer uniform. There were a lot of people who thought CC Sabathia might look in his heart and sign with the Brewers. Fielder signing here is just as absurd. Just be glad we drafted him and enjoy watching him this year. There's no way he signs long term with the Brewers. None.

I don't want to rehash too much, but I keep coming back to this: Who's going to sign Fielder? The Yanks are locked in with Teixeira (although i guess they could sign him as a DH) and Howard, Pujols, and Gonzalez are all slated to be FA. Obviously, Pujols is likely to resign, but there are still 3 big-time players and I don't see that many suitors.

 

As for the markets larger than MIL:

 

Angels - Morales seems pretty solid thus far

Tigers - don't have the money, and have Cabrera

Blue Jays - Wallace will probably be entrenched at 1B

Red Sox - This could definitely happen, though they seem more interested in Gonzalez

Orioles - Stranger things have happened

Giants - have Sandoval

Seattle - Possibility here with Jack Z, but would they pay for his declining defense?

CHC - this scares me to death

PHI - You'd think Howard would be priority #1

Dodgers - They'll have tons of expensive arby players by then, but who knows

 

This is not an exhaustive list, I was just kind of trying to paint a picture