Prince's Future

[FVBrewerFan]

That's true, but you won't get back any MLB talent if a trade is made during the season. However, if you trade him in the off-season with a long term deal worked out with the buyer, you can get MLB talent back in return. Not saying they would get ONLY MLB talent back in return, but maybe you get a starting OF,1B/or SP and then a couple high celing AA arms in return. If they trade during the season, you may get better quality prospects, but you won't get any proven player out of it.

[paul253]

If the Brewers are out of it to the point of trading Fielder during the season, I won't necessarily mind not getting major league talent in return. We'd still be set at most positions, other than first base of course, but there are a few internal options there. Heck, Corey Hart could even move back to first base even he continues his improvement at the plate. I'd be ok with some minor league pitchers but only if they have #1 or #2 upside.

[monty57]

Good point, Paul. I'd just add that trading Fielder won't free up a rotation spot, so we'd have too many pitchers if we landed a MLB pitcher in a mid-season trade. We could potentially trade Davis or Bush, who are in their last year, but that would likely be a separate deal.

 

If we traded mid-season, I wouldn't mind getting a package built around a solid AAA pitcher or even someone like Casey Kelly who's at AA for Boston (mentioned in a "Prince to Boston" thread in trade forum). If we're far enough out of it to trade Prince, we'd also probably look to move Bush and / or Davis, and I'd be fine bringing up Butler, Loe, Lofgren, Estrada or even some of the high-upside AA guys to fill out the rotation for the remainder of the season, as long as the players we get back in return are "superstar" AA / AAA prospects. By not getting young, "proven" MLB guys, we could probably get more high quality players in return.

 

It may come down to a "which would you rather have... one good young player with MLB experience and a mid-level AA guy or two high-level AA/AAA guys?" If we could get the pitching equivalent of LaPorta/Brantley, I'd be happy, and 1.5 years of Prince ought to be worth at least as much as half a season of Sabathia.

[Warning Track Power]

If we could get the pitching equivalent of LaPorta/Brantley, I'd be happy, and 1.5 years of Prince ought to be worth at least as much as half a season of Sabathia.

Absolutely. But I would even say do the deal if the Indians were in contention and offered us a trade with LaPorta/Brantley as the centerpieces in a trade for Fielder @ the trade deadline this season. I understand we all want pitching in return but so does everyone else. If we were able to combine these two or an equivalent with the pieces in place already, with a resigned Weeks, the lineup could still be very potent.

 

I know this is an unrealistic scenario, but Monty wrote about the pitching equivalent of LaPorta/Brantley and I am suggesting a hitting equivalent of LaPorta/Brantley. I believe receiving two high level bats to be the far more likely scenario than two high level arms in a Fielder trade.

 

[Tbadder]

Which team wants to trade cheap, controllable, upside, starting pitching?

 

 

This simple conundrum should indicate what we're not going to get for Fielder. More than likely I think we'll get a starting pitcher who has started the arby process and who may turn expensive shortly. Or we'll get a high upside guy with some MLB experience and an injury history. But I can't believe anyone would be dumb enough to give up a true AA or AAA stud who is 21/22 and ready to blossom.

 

 

Of course that's exactly what I'd want.

[Invader3K]

I know this is an unrealistic scenario, but Monty wrote about the pitching equivalent of LaPorta/Brantley and I am suggesting a hitting equivalent of LaPorta/Brantley. I believe receiving two high level bats to be the far more likely scenario than two high level arms in a Fielder trade.

I'd be reasonably happy with that, though it obviously wouldn't address our biggest need. I'm not sold that LaPorta is going to be anything special at this point, so I'm not sure it would really be that great of an idea, specifically. Still, two high ceiling impact bats wouldn't be the worst thing in the world with all the pitching depth we suddenly seem to have in the minors.

[uwisfan]

I guess I'd be surprised to see him moved this year. Even if the Brewers are average this year, their pitching should improve next year. It gives the Brewers all next season to decide to keep or trade Fielder next year as the deadline approaches. If the Brewers are in the running and he eventually walks, they get 2 draft picks in return, but they remain in the playoff picture. If they are out of it, they can pull a Sabbathia kind of deal.. where the Crew had to give up their #7 overall pick along with other top prospects.

 

Meanwhile, Prince will continue to put fans in the seats this year and next at a cheap price to the org. I just cant see a move unless they were completely out of it and landed some young pitching stud in return.

[logan82]

Prince will continue to put fans in the seats this year

 

Winning puts fans in the seats. A crappy team with Fielder will not draw as well as a good team without Fielder.

[uwisfan]

Prince will continue to put fans in the seats this year

 

Winning puts fans in the seats. A crappy team with Fielder will not draw as well as a good team without Fielder.

all else being equal in terms of team success (good or bad), Prince will add revenues to the team. There is going to be a contingent of fans, if he leaves this year, that are going to immediately turn the Brewers off (based on his departure) and that could carry into next year.

 

"same old brewers, couldnt keep Molitor / Carlos Lee / Cordero / Sabbathia / Prince". A lot of paying fans dont follow the team all that closely; they just go off feel, and it would "feel" like yet another salary dump.

[logan82]

and if they keep winning people will come right back.

[Invader3K]

People said the same things when Richie Sexson was dealt. The main difference is that there are other good players on the team now, whereas when Sexson was dealt, he was far and away the best player on the Brewers.

 

Some casual fans and talk radio pundits will trot out the "same ol' Brewers" line, but when held up scrutiny, it won't be apt this time.

[paul253]

This simple conundrum should indicate what we're not going to get for

Fielder. More than likely I think we'll get a starting pitcher who has

started the arby process and who may turn expensive shortly. Or we'll

get a high upside guy with some MLB experience and an injury history.

But I can't believe anyone would be dumb enough to give up a true AA or

AAA stud who is 21/22 and ready to blossom.

 

You never know. A team in contention may think Fielder will put them over the top. And may very well do that. We're talking about a perennial all-star and someone not only capable of but someone who has hit 50 home runs. I don't think it's unrealistic for a team to give up a pitching prospect who, while very talented, hasn't pitched in the majors yet.

[joepepsi]

Doug has said in the past you get most value from position players by trading them in the offseason. While a deadline trade in a failed 2010 seems tantalizing, the most likely scenario is a winter trade. There will be posturing with contract proposals and rejections for a couple months, then a trade.

 

If the team doesn't make the playoffs this year, you could see some kind of blockbuster deal with Prince that will significantly change the team. Maybe something like Prince/Parra or Villy + for a handful of players.

[zzzmanwitz]

If the team doesn't make the playoffs this year, you could see some kind of blockbuster deal with Prince that will significantly change the team. Maybe something like Prince/Parra or Villy + for a handful of players.

 

Prince/Parra/Villy/Weeks for Evan Longoria and Jeremy Hellickson? A guy can dream can't he?

[WisconsinSportsRule]

For the longest time, I was in the "must sign Prince" camp. Honestly, I feel way different now. It's becoming more and more obvious that he's going to want a monster deal and it just won't make sense. Also, even if we give him some monster contract, Weeks is most likely gone. I hope that's not the case, but it's likely.

 

Ideally, I was really hoping we'd start seeing those younger arm in the organization step up, but this might be a little early to tell. I think there's talent, and if we sign Prince to that big deal, the pitching has to come from the minors. If history dictates anything, we won't have that great of young pitching to rely on with a limited payroll with Prince.

 

I don't think they would consider dealing him until next trading deadline or next offseason, which might be a mistake b/c you could probably get more this trading deadline, but I'd be ecstatic if this team could get some young arms to build around with Yovani, Braun and Weeks as the core. I just think giving Prince a large contract with the organization's inability to develop young pitching would be a bad idea.

[The Ignitor]

If we are in the dream stage, how about Fielder (& maybe Solome) to the Giants for Buster Posey, Baumgartner, and A-ball hot pitching prospect?

[monty57]

Which team wants to trade cheap, controllable, upside, starting pitching?

 

 

This simple conundrum should indicate what we're not going to get for Fielder. More than likely I think we'll get a starting pitcher who has started the arby process and who may turn expensive shortly. Or we'll get a high upside guy with some MLB experience and an injury history. But I can't believe anyone would be dumb enough to give up a true AA or AAA stud who is 21/22 and ready to blossom.

 

 

Of course that's exactly what I'd want.

I'll counter your question with another... Which team would not want Prince Fielder in their lineup?

 

Prince isn't a "good" player, he is someone who, if he continues at his current pace, will be in the Hall of Fame. Some team is likely going to give him at least a $160MM contract, but you think that no one would be willing to give up anything but an injury-riddled-never-has-been? I think you're setting your sights too low. It would be hard (particularly in-season) to land a pitcher that's currently on a MLB roster, as that pitcher would be helping his team to the playoffs. However, someone should be willing to trade high-upside AA/AAA pitching for an increased shot at a World Series.

[Warning Track Power]

...but I'd be ecstatic if this team could get some young arms to build around with Yovani, Braun and Weeks as the core.

I was in the "must sign Fielder" camp as well until I looked at the reality of signing him. If we do sign Fielder, we say goodbye to Weeks (in my opinion). Since the rumblings of what it will cost to sign Fielder will likely cause the Brewers to field homegrown prospects all around him and Braun, I am now more in the "sign Weeks, deal Fielder" camp. Complimenting Braun and Gallardo with Weeks, McGehee and pieces in a Fielder trade will allow us to be more competitive in the long run.

[TheCrew07]

Which team wants to trade cheap, controllable, upside, starting pitching?

Off the top of my head I would say Baltimore and Texas. I wouldn't be looking to break the bank with Fielder, a Teixeira deal is a pipe dream, but I would want 2 top prospects in return for him. I'm not really interested in MLB pitching, I'd want young players on the rise, players with top of the rotation stuff. I already listed players from Baltimore so I won't revisit that idea.

 

Obviously anyone who's read what I've written about young pitching knows I have a huge man crush on Neftali Feliz, a true 80 FB on the scouting scale, and he commands it very well. There's no way Texas will trade him though, he became an instant fan favorite last season hitting 100 MPH 6 times in his MLB debut. I would target Martin Perez who's currently in AA, he's another live armed young man who controls his FB well and working on refining his off speed stuff. Obviously if I'm giving up 1B in Fielder, I'd also want Smoak back in return. If Texas isn't willing to move Smoak, then they don't have a deal. Well take that back, then I'd want Feliz and Perez... the 2 best young arms in the system, but if they acquire Prince they have the means to sign him, and Smoak would be blocked. In addition Smoak is a defensive liability at this time and doesn't run well at all, so as good of a hitter as he is, he still has quite a bit of work to do to become an all around solid baseball player.

 

As I'm thinking about this Toronto might have some interest in Prince if their new management is looking to make a splash as they turn the franchise around, they will have some excess pitching already having Stewart, Jenkins, and Alvarez, then adding Drabek and Morrow through trades.

 

In the end we don't really know who would be motivated enough to give up the best package for Prince, but if I'm not getting 2 top 5/6 prospects then I'm not making a deal. I'd want projectable pitching and the best hitter for him. The players don't need to be proven MLB talent, they need to be talented and close to MLB. Gamel needs to play in the bigs and he might as well learn 1B on the fly so they can see what they have, and we don't really have room this season for more pitching in the rotation, there wouldn't be a pressing need for MLB players in return.

[BrewCrewForever]

...but I'd be ecstatic if this team could get some young arms to build around with Yovani, Braun and Weeks as the core.

I was in the "must sign Fielder" camp as well until I looked at the reality of signing him. If we do sign Fielder, we say goodbye to Weeks (in my opinion). Since the rumblings of what it will cost to sign Fielder will likely cause the Brewers to field homegrown prospects all around him and Braun, I am now more in the "sign Weeks, deal Fielder" camp. Complimenting Braun and Gallardo with Weeks, McGehee and pieces in a Fielder trade will allow us to be more competitive in the long run.

Same here, I was all about keeping Fielder, but if he is going to want a $200 mill deal or close to that. The Brewers just can't do that, it would be franchise suicide to make that deal. Deal him for young guys that can contribute now or very close to now. Resign Weeks and move Lawrie to the OF to get ready. With Braun, Weeks, Gallardo, McGehee and Escobar we have a nice core and we have help on the way in Lucroy, Lawrie, Cain, Gindl, Arnett, Heckathorn, Rogers, etc.

[bucksbeat]

I am still in the "Sign Prince" group. If Fielder will sign a huge deal with us then do it, maybe he will avoid the advice of Boras in testing Free Agency for the team that drafted him. I just don't think we'll get his worth from another team when they know that after 2011 he is gone with Boras. Now of course if he is completely shutting out the Brewers then deal him for what you can get, but I'd like to see him signed and kept until the Brewers can't field a competitive team around him. The talent on the market now (Adrian Gonzalez) and the Free Agents after 2011 definitely hinder not only the money Prince will get, but the amount the Brewers will get back for him. Prince has showed no signs of injury risk, his defense has improved and his weight hasn't become any more of an issue it was when he was drafted. Sign him, hold him until after 2012 or 13 when big name 1B are off the market and trade him then if you need the money. Looking at the Brewers financial obligations, they can afford it for a few years.

 

I've seen teams like Baltimore and Toronto floated around and I don't see any possibility Prince even entertains re-signing with a club that plays on a lower tier then annual division winners New York and Boston, and those teams know it.

[Invader3K]

I hate to be the one to bring this up, but I wonder if this cloud of uncertainty is weighing down on Prince. I know it's only about 50 ABs, but the guy is only batting .224 with a .286 SLG. I realize it's early and he has started slow before, but it's a bit more pronounced right now.

[FVBrewerFan]

I've been wondering that myself Invader, brought it up "who knows how many pages back." Something that's impossible to prove, but I wonder if that baggage is weighing him down, and maybe the whole team to some degree. When there is uncertainty about how long your leader will be around, it's fair to ask.

 

Secondly, I'll repeat an earlier point. What is Prince doesn't have a monster year? You can't tell me that won't diminish his contract size, number of bidders, what you can back in return, etc. I mean, what if he hits .265 with 28 HRs? Sure, GMs will look at his entire body of work, but how excited can a team be to give $200MM to a player coming off a less than stellar season?

[Tbadder]

So then for those of you who think we're getting top notch pitching in return for Fielder--you're depending on the stupidity of other teams. Why would I want Fielder when I've got Smoak? He's significantly cheaper; he's controllable, and I've got two 100mph arms coming up shortly to fill in the rotation. Because I can win? I don't believe it. Not even close. Keeping younf stud pitchers will get me closer to contending for playoff spots than slugging 1st basemen, who afterall, are not that hard to replace.

[zzzmanwitz]

Here are the two Mark Teixeira trades from Baseball Reference

 

July 31, 2007: Traded by the Texas Rangers with Ron Mahay to the Atlanta Braves for Beau Jones (minors), Elvis Andrus, Neftali Feliz, Matt Harrison and Jarrod Saltalamacchia.

 

July 29, 2008: Traded by the Atlanta Braves to the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim for Steve Marek (minors) and Casey Kotchman.

 

Depending on when we would trade Fielder has a large impact on what you can expect to get. If we traded Prince this year, we can expect a large return.