Prince's Future

[endaround]

I don't get the fascination with Jacoby Elllsbury. Trading Prince with Ellsbury as the main part coming back would be akin to the Gorman Thomas/Rick Manning trade in '83 (albeit with both Prince and Ellsbury both being much better than Thomas and Manning). I want no part of trading elite power for a slick fielding singles hitter. If Prince must be traded, it had better be for multiple pitchers who are ready to pitch in the majors now, not single A guys,, plus they better be able to break 92-93 on the radar guns, and not be junkballers- as Melvin seems to favor.

The people who think Fielder will bring in 5 AAA+++ prospects are the same people who would kill Melvin if he offered a similar deal for Cliff Lee this off season. And Lee is much cheaper than Fielder will be. The return will be a 20 year AA player with up side plus two B type prospects. See the Johan Santanna deal.

[FVBrewerFan]

Exactly. You will be sadly dissapointed if you believe the Brewers will get "fair" value back in a Fielder trade.

 

And as far as my Ellsbury trade is concerned, you all ignored the part where I said "plus two high quality pitching prospects." And using Gomez and Gerut as a reason wh you wouldn't want Ellsbury is rather amusing. Anyhow, that was just as an example. Probably not even the best one, but just off the top of my head. My main point was that the Brewers could package a nother player and make this an even better overall trade,

[trwi7]

You assume we could have traded Hardy for more the previous offseason. We do not know that to be true. From the sound of it, we may have only been offered a relief pitcher for Hardy. There is no guarantee we could have traded for a player better than Gomez.

He was coming off an .821 OPS as a 26 year old. As a 32 year old with one year before free agency Edgar Renteria posted an .860 OPS and got the Braves Jair Jurrjens. Sure, he may only have been offered a relief pitcher, but I find that unlikely. And didn't Melvin say he was offered a "#5 starter"? I'd love to see who that starter was and if he had any upside.

 

 

 

[RockCoCougars]

The people who think Fielder will bring in 5 AAA+++ prospects are the same people who would kill Melvin if he offered a similar deal for Cliff Lee this off season. And Lee is much cheaper than Fielder will be. The return will be a 20 year AA player with up side plus two B type prospects. See the Johan Santanna deal.

If that's all you can get for Fielder, then you just let him play out the next two years and walk. I'm not arguing that you could get more, because I wouldn't be surprised if that was all they could get. The Brewers always seem to have bad timing with these sorts of things, while other teams make out like bandits.

[Invader3K]

He was coming off an .821 OPS as a 26 year old. As a 32 year old with one year before free agency Edgar Renteria posted an .860 OPS and got the Braves Jair Jurrjens. Sure, he may only have been offered a relief pitcher, but I find that unlikely. And didn't Melvin say he was offered a "#5 starter"? I'd love to see who that starter was and if he had any upside.

If Gomez can ever put it all together (and I know the Twins were saying the same thing, but he's still young), he will be much, much more valuable to the Brewers than another #5 starter. We already have plenty of #5 types in the majors, and at AAA.

 

The people saying that Hardy should have been traded a year earlier continually ignore the fact that Escobar was not considered MLB ready before 2009. Yeah, we had Counsell on the staff, but no one knew he was going to put up the numbers he did last season.

[logan82]

He was coming off an .821 OPS as a 26 year old. As a 32 year old with one year before free agency Edgar Renteria posted an .860 OPS and got the Braves Jair Jurrjens. Sure, he may only have been offered a relief pitcher, but I find that unlikely. And didn't Melvin say he was offered a "#5 starter"? I'd love to see who that starter was and if he had any upside.

 

I doubt many GMs were scared off by one bad season from a guy who posted good MLB numbers and still played excellent defense.

[MJLiverock]

The people who think Fielder will bring in 5 AAA+++ prospects are the same people who would kill Melvin if he offered a similar deal for Cliff Lee this off season. And Lee is much cheaper than Fielder will be. The return will be a 20 year AA player with up side plus two B type prospects. See the Johan Santanna deal.

If that's all you can get for Fielder, then you just let him play out the next two years and walk. I'm not arguing that you could get more, because I wouldn't be surprised if that was all they could get. The Brewers always seem to have bad timing with these sorts of things, while other teams make out like bandits.

 

A 20 year old AA player with upside and 2 type prospects may still be better than rolling the dice on a late first round pick and a sandwich pick. A team rarely gets equal value when an elite level player leaves via trade or free agency but in the case of trading for minor leaguers you may have little more surety in the quality of the return versus the even bigger crapshoot of the draft.

[NievesNoNO]

I think they will bring the most back by trading him at the deadline this year and for some reason I think he ends up with the Rays. Hellickson + ? I think perhaps this is the year the Rays pull a CC type move like the Brewers did except on the offensive end. Slide him into the DH role and that team is better than both the Yankees and Red Sox (if they're not all ready). Financially they are in the same boat as Milwaukee, but their talent is far superior and they have a legit chance to win it all if they can force out Boston and/or New York.

[paul253]

Perhaps to increase the return for Fielder we could throw in a prospect of our own. I've been wondering lately how we're going to handle Lawrie/Green/Gamel to go along with Weeks and McGehee. Or maybe an excess starting pitcher like Manny Parra or Narveson, though I certainly don't want to do that because I think they still have potential. And I'm not saying we're all of a sudden going to bring back 3 top of the rotation starters if we add Taylor Green, but teams may be willing to go a little higher to get Fielder knowing that even if they can't resign him they'll have a top 10 prospect as well. Maybe Fielder and Green for two young starting pitchers and a solid A ball position player?

[lcbj68c]

I think they will bring the most back by trading him at the deadline this year and for some reason I think he ends up with the Rays. Hellickson + ? I think perhaps this is the year the Rays pull a CC type move like the Brewers did except on the offensive end. Slide him into the DH role and that team is better than both the Yankees and Red Sox (if they're not all ready). Financially they are in the same boat as Milwaukee, but their talent is far superior and they have a legit chance to win it all if they can force out Boston and/or New York.

As a Tampa resident, I could see this as well. However, Prince wouldn't fill the DH role, he would play first base and Pena would occupy the DH role. Burrell would either be just another man on the bench, or perhaps go back to the outfield and replace Gabe Kapler/Matt Joyce platoon that is going on in right field. However, Sternberg has already come back and said that they expect to cut payroll back to around 48M in 2011. Burrell, Crawford, Pena, & Soriano all will probably not be resigned, which slashes $38M off of the $79M that they are at this season. I don't know if they want to add another $18M back onto that 2011 payroll for Fielder. Of course, they could always just make a run and re-trade Fielder in December of 2010 and recoup some talent themselves.

 

Now, as far as who comes back, BJ Upton has been souring lately and may need a change of scenery. Could you move him to LF and Braun to RF? Upton doesn't hit Free Agency until 2013. Desmond Jennings could certainly step in for Upton and they probably don't miss a beat and save another $5-6M in salary at their CF position. For pitching, Hellickson would have to be the choice. He is absolutely ready now and is killing it for Durham already this season. The only other option would have to be Niemann. Sonnanstine could go back into a starting role or Hellickson could step in as well. Tampa in the long term does not have much at 2B, so giving them a return there also would be nice for both sides.

 

My offer would be Fielder, T. Green for Upton, Hellickson, & Barnese

[nate82]

He was coming off an .821 OPS as a 26 year old. As a 32 year old with one year before free agency Edgar Renteria posted an .860 OPS and got the Braves Jair Jurrjens. Sure, he may only have been offered a relief pitcher, but I find that unlikely. And didn't Melvin say he was offered a "#5 starter"? I'd love to see who that starter was and if he had any upside.

 

 

If you are talking about the Hardy trade during last off season and the number 5 starter Melvin was talking about was Sanchez and the Giants wanted both Hart and Hardy for Sanchez. Which would make absolutely no sense for the Brewers to trade both Hart and Hardy last off season for Sanchez. That would be overpaying for Sanchez Hardy alone coming off the year he had would have been overpaying.

 

As for trading Fielder I wouldn't want Ellsbury as the center piece that I am sure of. Cain, Schafer, and Gomez are already options and I don't see a huge gap between those three and Ellsbury that I would want to trade Fielder for Ellsbury +. There is not that many suitors out there for Prince in a trade it basically comes down to Boston as the main front runner and they look to be looking at Gonzalez more so than Fielder.

 

I see people on here saying that Gamel or someone else would be playing 1B if Fielder is gone I actually see someone else being moved to 1B instead and that person would be Braun. Braun has had some issues with his back and ribs area along with the Brewers having a lot of prospects in the OF moving Braun from LF to 1B makes a lot of sense. I wouldn't be surprised if Prince is not retained if the Brewers moved Braun from LF to 1B and placed Gamel or Lawrie in one of the corner OF spots.

[endaround]

If Ike Davis keep raking in AAA the Mets might be off the table for Fielder, which is the one team I could see really overpaying for Fielder either in trade or free agency.

[BrewCrewForever]

Trading Fielder at the break this season and reloading with some good young players (ala the Rangers/Braves Teixeira trade) to go along with an already good group (Braun, Gallardo, Weeks, Escobar, McGehee, Lawrie, Gamel, Lucroy and Cain) might be the best idea at this point.

This way we can kind of build, but stay competitive at the same time while the young players really come into there own and then maybe we can have a Tampa Bay Rays situation.

[DSFastball55]

The people who think Fielder will bring in 5 AAA+++ prospects are the same people who would kill Melvin if he offered a similar deal for Cliff Lee this off season. And Lee is much cheaper than Fielder will be. The return will be a 20 year AA player with up side plus two B type prospects. See the Johan Santanna deal.

If that's all you can get for Fielder, then you just let him play out the next two years and walk. I'm not arguing that you could get more, because I wouldn't be surprised if that was all they could get. The Brewers always seem to have bad timing with these sorts of things, while other teams make out like bandits.

 

A 20 year old AA player with upside and 2 type prospects may still be better than rolling the dice on a late first round pick and a sandwich pick. A team rarely gets equal value when an elite level player leaves via trade or free agency but in the case of trading for minor leaguers you may have little more surety in the quality of the return versus the even bigger crapshoot of the draft.

I pretty much agree with RockCo. I'd let him walk as well unless we get at least one truly premier prospect. But it will all depend on where we are in the standings too. If it's a given he won't return to the Brewers, I'd package Prince with Gamel this year before his value begins to sink.

[logan82]

I'd package Prince with Gamel this year before his value begins to sink.

 

No way. Absolutely not. Gamel and Fielder? That would be a terrible idea.

[monty57]

Agreed, Logan. Especially since (assuming he's healthy) Gamel would likely be called up to be the "big LH bat" in the lineup once Prince is gone. Prince is good enough to get the return himself. Adding another player really makes little sense unless it's to clear a 40-man spot in a multiple player trade, and then it would be one of the worst players on your 40-man, not your best prospect. In the trade, we'd be trying to get the other teams' best prospect, not give up ours.

[paul253]

I pretty much agree with RockCo. I'd let him walk as well unless we

get at least one truly premier prospect

 

There is no possible way I would let him walk for draft picks. Not after seeing A) what happened with Sabathia and B) seeing draft picks like Dykstra, Cody Adams, Frederickson, Seth Lintz, Brent Brewer, etc who were all high draft picks and busted. I'd rather take a AA guy with upside because a lot of draft picks never even make it that high.

[PrinceFielderx1]

If the Brewers decide to pass on Fielder why not try to go after Lance Berkman after 2011 season (after this season if option isn't picked up)? He is a very good hitter and defender and would be way less expensive. His last deal he signed was 6/85 million. Just an Idea...

[Teatoe993]

I like Berkman a lot but he's gonna be 35 in 2011. He seems to be getting injured quite frequently the past couple years too.

[BrewCrewForever]

I would not go after Berkman, while a good player he is old and will still get big money. If Fielder is traded Gamel makes the most sense to play 1B. Especially with the way McGehee is playing, he will be the teams starting 3B for awhile.

[RyDogg66]

Berkman might not even get a contract if the market for oft-injured 35 year old DHs doesnt change.

[joepepsi]

If the best the team can do with Prince is top out in the low 80s for wins, then they probably should shop him in the hopes of getting a high ceiling rotation guy.

[3Putt]

Our farm system has had much better success developing position players than they have pitchers. If we're not contending after the All Star break it's time for Prince to go in return for some SP. Of course that's assuming we can't sign him which almost is a given.

[Invader3K]

Our farm system has had much better success developing position players than they have pitchers. If we're not contending after the All Star break it's time for Prince to go in return for some SP. Of course that's assuming we can't sign him which almost is a given.

I really hope that is the way the team goes. I think I'd rather trade him in the middle of this season, as I would guess we can get more value for him in the middle of the year than waiting 'til the off-season. Of course that is assuming some team is willing to give us a decent trade for him.

 

I just don't want to see Melvin hold onto him if the team is just kind of floating around .500 in July, and it's looking like the pitching staff won't hold up again like last season. That would be the absolute worst case scenario, in my view.

[paul253]

Yeah this all-star break or trading deadline would be a good time to trade because you could trade him to a contending team, say Tampa. Tampa could then re-coup some of their losses by trading him again after the season or they could hold onto him for all of 2010 and then take the picks. I would think a team like Tampa would value draft picks a little more than Milwaukee would since their budget is lower.