Prince's Future

[Patrick425]

kramnoj[/b]]Maybe as you suggested, as a result of this meeting, the Brewers felt it would be a waste of time to even put together an offer at this point. This would make sense, given Melvin's defensive comments in comparing the Brewer's situation to the Twin's situation.

 

How do you get there? Per your recap, Melvin said something factual. Why do you see that as defensive? As far as I can see, things are amicable. Prince wants to stay, the team wants him to stay, fans want him to stay. There has been no drama, and nothing has to get done this year.

I'm assuming he was asked something along the lines of "How do you think Mauer's contract effects you're negotiations with Fielder?". A response that basically states that it's not the same situation, seems a bit defensive to me. At the very least he deflected the situation by pretending there was no correlation when in reality there is. Anyone who thinks that Boras will not use that contract along with Texiera's contract as a measuring stick for his client, is fooling themselves.

 

How do you know Prince wants to stay? Because he said he likes in in Milwaukee? How many times to players say things like that? It ranks right up there with "We'll play one game at a time".

 

Even if you do take Melvin's comment literally word for word. I think it's a foolish strategy on the Brewer's part to not put any urgency on the situation because they have Fielder through 2011. Every day that goes by where Fielder remains healthy and is producing on the field and that he has not signed LT with the Brewers is a step farther away from the Brewers in my opinion.

 

 

[kramnoj]

At the very least he deflected the situation by pretending there was no correlation when in reality there is. Anyone who thinks that Boras will not use that contract along with Texiera's contract as a measuring stick for his client, is fooling themselves.

 

You just said it. The Mauer contract doesn't change anything. There was already a contract in place to be measured against.

 

How do you know Prince wants to stay? Because he said he likes in in Milwaukee?

 

I don't have any reason not to believe him. He also had his agent meet with the team to discuss an extension. His teammates say he likes it here. Fielder hasn't been shy about expressing his opinion before, I don't see any reason to doubt what he chooses to share.

 

Every day that goes by where Fielder remains healthy and is producing on the field and that he has not signed LT with the Brewers is a step farther away from the Brewers in my opinion.

 

I don't know what that means. What deleterious effects did Mauer or the Twins suffer while he wasn't signed long term last year? If there weren't any, what is specific about the Brewers and Fielder that will cause stepping farther away?

[joepepsi]

I think the Brewers have no idea what kind of team they'll have this year. Another season of pitching woes, regression on offense and they might only win 75 games. Everything falls into place, Parra and Bush bounce back, Wolf and Yo pitch their best and they may win 95.

 

If things go wrong the best move is to trade Prince, cut salary, and try for a quick 1-2 year rebuild around Braun and Yo. If they make the playoffs they'll want to do a long term deal with Prince and ride this crop of young veterans as long as they can.

 

I agree with Doug. This isn't the same as the Mauer situation. It's tough to know the best move right now.

[JohnBriggs12]

I think the Brewers have no idea what kind of team they'll have this year. Another season of pitching woes, regression on offense and they might only win 75 games. Everything falls into place, Parra and Bush bounce back, Wolf and Yo pitch their best and they may win 95.

 

If things go wrong the best move is to trade Prince, cut salary, and try for a quick 1-2 year rebuild around Braun and Yo. If they make the playoffs they'll want to do a long term deal with Prince and ride this crop of young veterans as long as they can.

 

I agree with Doug. This isn't the same as the Mauer situation. It's tough to know the best move right now.

The difference between the Mauer and Fielder situation isn't that Fielder's offense is any less important to the Brewers than Mauer's is to the Twins. The difference is Mauer is unique and would have commanded a lot more back had the Twins traded him In marketplace where half the teams won't go and many of those with the resources have a guy in place, Fielder has equals, 3 of whom's contracts are up the same time as his. Since the Brewers won't be bidding on his equals either, and his trade value is not likely to result in a one or two year turnaround, the focus has to be on signing him and hoping guys like Weeks, Hart and Bush can be replaced with pre arby guys. Frankly I think it's a lot easier replacing 3 guys making $5 million each than it is one guy making $15 million.

[Tbadder]

I think it's more important for the Brewers to sign Prince than for the Twins to sign Mauer. The reason? The Twins produce major leaguers at a much steadier pace than the Brewers. They'll always have young players ready to slot in. Much of their payroll will be cheap and talented, surrounding Mauer. If the Brewers sign Prince they'll surround him with just cheap, not so talented. Mauer's signing is the death knell for Morneau though. Mauer will have to move to 1st eventually unless Mauer proves to be bionic in a Kendallesque way without losing his offensive abilities. In the end financial reality will hit Mark A., and he's gonna have to let Fielder walk. Braun and Yo are the real heart of the team. Too many risks with Prince. Love him, awesome guy, but gotta wish him well in the end.

[TooLiveBrew]

The Twins produce major leaguers at a much steadier pace than the Brewers.

 

I feel like this is just a label that's stuck with MIN from the Hunter/Jones/Mientkiewicz days. Who have they developed that makes them any more impressive than the Brewers? Certainly trading Matt Garza for Delmon Young isn't a positive move. I'd argue that the Brewers are every bit as good at developing their own players, if not better. Once the next wave of pitching gets to or near MLB (roughly 2011), I think the Brewers will have a clear advantage.

[Tbadder]

What you're saying could be completely true. I hope you're right. I was overall impressed with the post-Z drafting, but don't really see anyone in the system as good as Weeks, much less Braun or Fielder or Gallardo.

[TooLiveBrew]

I think I'd agree, but honestly Lawrie & Escobar get a lot of prospect-expert love (esp. Lawrie's bat). Add in two solid catching prospects in Salome & Lucroy, a guy like Lo Cain, and several talented young arms around the A+ & AA level, & I'd say the Brewers are doing a fine job. I like what Seid has done so far. And clearly I'm overlooking other talented players, just a quick off-the-top list.

 

Bringing this back to Fielder, I think the Brewers are actually in a good situation. They have an elite hitter & proven commodity in Prince. They have cheap talent on its way up the system to complement what would be their higher-priced stars in Braun, Fielder, & Gallardo in a few seasons. However, the org. also has leverage imo since life really can go on without Fielder. Gamel is a natural successor at 1B (even though I obv. prefer him at 3B) since McGehee looks like a capable 3Bman. I think Taylor Green is going to have a bounce-back year, & if he does, he's pretty close to being MLB-ready, so that's even more 3B depth. My vote is to try to retain Fielder with a 5-year deal, so he'd have a chance at one more huge payday before he'd be getting older. Whether Fielder is interested in that or not is another issue entirely. If the Brewers are forced to trade him, I think we'd be able to add at least one more talented, cheap player.

[zzzmanwitz]

Lawrie is Raking. Escobar could be every bit as good as Hardy. The jury is out on Gamel (even though I still think he will perform at a high level). Lucroy will be a solid ML Catcher. I think any of these pitchers could turn into solid if not above average ML pitchers:

 

Braddock

Arnett

Odorizzi

Rivas

Peralta

Loftgren

Scarpetta

Rogers

Jones

Heckathorn

Axford

Butler

Anundsen

Jeffress...

 

I think the talent is there to reload the team if Fielder and Weeks leave.

[TheCrew07]

Bowman gets no love ever!

[zzzmanwitz]

Sorry for my oversight.

[Patrick425]

kramnoj[/b]]Every day that goes by where Fielder remains healthy and is producing on the field and that he has not signed LT with the Brewers is a step farther away from the Brewers in my opinion.

 

I don't know what that means. What deleterious effects did Mauer or the Twins suffer while he wasn't signed long term last year? If there weren't any, what is specific about the Brewers and Fielder that will cause stepping farther away?

What I mean by that is if you could sign him to a LT contract right now, why wouldn't you? Only one I can think of and it has to do with the numbers that Prince and Boras are looking for. Those numbers are only going to go higher (and farther away from the Brewers budget) if Prince stays healthy and has another All Star caliber year.

 

While Ron Shapiro (Mauer's agent) is a great agent, he's not the ruthless money gruber like Boras. In addition, Prince did not grow up in the Milwaukee area. The writing on the wall is getting clearer and clearer.

 

[kramnoj]

What I mean by that is if you could sign him to a LT contract right now, why wouldn't you? Only one I can think of and it has to do with the numbers that Prince and Boras are looking for. Those numbers are only going to go higher (and farther away from the Brewers budget) if Prince stays healthy and has another All Star caliber year.

 

There could be other reasons. The Brewers would have an interest in waiting to see if the Padres deal Gonzalez. Whoever deals for him is probably not going to be interested in Prince, and so that would be one less team for Prince to go to. If Boston gets Gonzales, for example, how many teams are going to be competing for Prince? The price for him may actually drop, because there may not be that much competition for him.

[joepepsi]

There could be other reasons. The Brewers would have an interest in waiting to see if the Padres deal Gonzalez. Whoever deals for him is probably not going to be interested in Prince, and so that would be one less team for Prince to go to. If Boston gets Gonzales, for example, how many teams are going to be competing for Prince? The price for him may actually drop, because there may not be that much competition for him.

Another good reason to wait. Like I said, I don't think it's in the Brewers' best interest to try and ram a deal through right now.

[Invader3K]

Comments from Attanasio and Melvin today regarding ongoing discussions with Fielder: http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/89922467.html

 

"I'm not saying we have or haven't made one," said Melvin.

 

Rumors have circulated on the internet recently that the Brewers were preparing to make an offer to Fielder for five or six years at about $20 million a year. Melvin said he didnt know where those rumors came from and that he hasn't told anybody what stage the talks are at.

 

Fielder can be a free agent after the 2011 season but the Brewers are trying to tie him up with a long-term extension before he gets to that stage. Melvin and Attanasio met in Los Angeles during spring training with Fielder's agent, Scott Boras, to get the ball rolling.

 

"One of the things we've said is we're not going to give a moment-to-moment handicap of where thngs are at, so it looks like a stock chart," Attanasio said.

[Invader3K]

For whatever it's worth, there is talk on the CBS Sports site that the Brewers either have or are soon to offer Fielder a contract of 5-6 years, around $20 million per year.

 

Supposedly it's been posted by the same guy that correctly stated the Brewers were going to extend Braun about three days before it was announced.

[uwisfan]

wow, thats a hefty price tag.. but I guess they can afford it with the pitching future looking a bit better now. I still think its a bit steep for someone with weight and defensive concerns.

[monty57]

Arguing the inflation vs deflation debate here seems out of place. I just tried to make a point as to one possibly valid reason to sign Prince now. My final comment is that every economist never agrees on anything. I've read many, many economists who believe inflation is on the horizon, but here's one you've probably heard of:

 

Bill Gross in PIMCO's April 2010 Investment Outlook: "The reason is complicated, but at its core very simple. As a November IMF staff position note aptly pointed out, high fiscal deficits and higher outstanding debt lead to higher real interest rates and ultimately higher inflation, both trends which are bond market unfriendly.

 

You say never trust anything that comes from The Heritage Foundation, I'd say never trust anything that comes from a Keynesian. I guess we'll just have to disagree on things like inflation and other negative effects of massive national debt.

 

Oh, and to simply reverse the actions they took to increase the monetary supply, the Fed would have to flood the market with Treasuries and GSE debt, which could drastically increase interest rates, crashing our economy and causing funding of future debt to be problematically expensive. Bernanke has a big job ahead of him, and I hope he's able to walk the tightrope adeptly.

 

I'll stop talking Economics on a baseball board now... go Brewers!! :-)

[MkeSouthSide]

The Hardball Times has an article today about contract extensions. It discusses one "done deal" (Beckett), one "work in progress" (Fielder), and one "long shot" (Dunn).

 

Interesting tidbit:

It appears that Fielder is more motivated to strike a deal with

the Brewers than was Teixeira with any of his early employers. Whether

this is due to a particular affinity for the organization or something

else is a matter of speculation. Judging by his play on the field, he

apparently has developed a certain level of comfort in Milwaukee. And,

for whatever it's worth, the elder Fielder (Cecil), spent the meat of

his career in an upper-Midwest city, Detroit. Of course, the younger

Fielder's eagerness to cash in might be due in some part to the

ridiculous winter-2011 class of free agent first basemen.

[PKBadger]

Not sure how many here are "fans" of Prince Fielder on Facebook....he has been pretty active lately, which is really cool - even posted fan photos from Opening Day and chose one of them as his profile pic.

 

Anyway, today's status update reads: glad to see Yovani locked up for the next 5 years. hopin i'll be next.

 

It's good to hear that he wants to be a Brewer....it doesn't seem like lip service. Hopefully we can get the $$ right.

[Invader3K]

I really doubt that's actually Prince Fielder's Facebook page. Probably one of the many fakes for various athletes, etc.

[PKBadger]

Looks like you're right, Invader...there's a post up now saying that somebody hacked it and was posing as Prince.

 

http://ilearnsomethingnew.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/dunce-cap1.jpg

 

 

I'm fairly certain that Braun's page is legit - his (infrequent) updates are usually about Remetee, his line of bats, the restaurants, etc. Behind the scenes stuff. More of a marketing tool than anything else. These comments from "Prince" seemed like they were in the same vein, but as always, the Internet is not to be trusted

[bucksbeat]

I think I just threw up in my mouth a little bit...

 

This way, it will be less of a shock to Brewers fans when Prince Fielder shows up in a couple years as the first baseman for the Cubs.

Read the article: Brewers can't cry foul over Fielder

[Dragonbait]

I've read it... now I can't UN-read it....

 

'A combination of published accounts and common sense would have the Brewers pulling in at least $200 million in 2009, between baseball’s general fund ($40 million), revenue sharing ($30 million), local revenues ($20 million) and game revenues (3 million fans at about $40 a head). They meet their payroll (about $80 million), operate the rest of the franchise (draft picks, international signings, regular overhead costs, insurance payments) and pay off the debt from purchasing the franchise, and that would seem to leave plenty left for Fielder (and, hey, maybe a couple pitchers).'

[Invader3K]

Yeah, maybe he's right, but the impression I get is that he pulled those numbers out of a hat.