Prince's Future

[Invader3K]

I said this before, but it all comes down to what kind of deal Prince is looking for. If he will "settle" for just a huge contract (like say, 6 years, $15-16 million per year, which could set him up for one more big payday), it could be do-able for the Brewers. If he's seeking some sort of insane, irresponsible, Teixeira type contract, the Brewers will have to say, "Sorry you don't want to stay with us. Good luck with your future endeavors."

[paul253]

I just hope the Brewers don't wait too long to decide what to do. If they don't have him signed by the 2011 trade deadline, he needs to go. I'd prefer to see him traded after this season or even the 2010 trade deadline if he isn't signed because we'd get more in return. What I don't want to see happen is for them to hold onto him until his contract expires thinking they'll make him a good offer only to see his demands are ridiculous and he walks away for nothing.

[Invader3K]

I'm guessing that if they don't get something worked out in the next few months, they will decide internly that there's no way they are keeping him after 2011.

[logan82]

Having Prince is not a $2 million difference in team revenue. That's just one of the considerations that is involved. I also don't buy that its a choice between Prince and having a competitive team.

You are right, it is probably much less that $2M.

[Invader3K]

The plot thickens.

 

That speculation arose when general manager Doug Melvin and assistant Gord Ash were absent from camp Wednesday, supposedly out of town for “a meeting.” Did Melvin and Ash travel to Los Angeles to meet with Fielder’s agent, Scott Boras, and team owner Mark Attanasio?

 

“All I would say is there haven’t been any negotiations,” said Melvin, who has vowed to keep all negotiations private regarding Fielder.

 

But, what about an initial offer?

 

“I’m not going to get into any of that at this point,” said Melvin. “We’re not going to comment on any of it. There will be speculation on it in the media.”

 

Edit: In another JSOnline post, Haudricourt confirms from talking with Prince that they did meet with Boras, but no formal offer has been made yet.

[PrinceFielderx1]

And so it begins.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Having Prince is not a $2 million difference in team revenue. That's just one of the considerations that is involved. I also don't buy that its a choice between Prince and having a competitive team.

You are right, it is probably much less that $2M.

I'm sorry, I just can't buy this. The Brewers are probably going to draw 3 million fans again this year, which I believe is the third straight year if that happens. The Brewers are doing better than ever in this city. Prince Fielder is a major reason for that. He and Ryan Braun are putting a lot of people in the seats who otherwise wouldn't show up. If you trade him for a bunch of guys who might be good players a few years from now, you are risking a lot. If they were able to stay competitive without him, that's one thing. But the guy is a massive cog in our offense. Braun would be worse off if we lost him, the Brewers would be worse off if we lost him. What happens if we lose Fielder, don't get adequate value in return, lose for a while, and Hollywood (Braun) wants to be traded? Take those two guys of our roster and you are looking at the mid-90s again.

I echo what's been said. If Prince Fielder is willing to slightly settle, then we've got to keep him around. If he wants some $200 million contract, then we don't have a choice and he needs to be traded.

But I think Prince Fielder and Ryan Braun have been worth a lot more than $2 million in revenue.

[trwi7]

I think the fans show up because of a winning product. If Prince is traded but the Brewers win 95 games, do you think the fans wouldn't show up because Fielder isn't there?

[OldSchoolSnapper]

No, but trading Prince Fielder for three 20-year-olds isn't going to get the Brewers to 95 wins. The odds of them reaching that number are much greater with him knocking in 130 runs for us.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

And, if the Brewers are average, like last year, the stars like Fielder and Braun still sell tickets. A 75-win team with a bunch of no-names will be a less attractive draw than an 80-win team with two superstars.

[paul253]

No, but trading Prince Fielder for three 20-year-olds isn't going
to get the Brewers to 95 wins. The odds of them reaching that number
are much greater with him knocking in 130 runs for us.

We havent had 95 wins in any season Fielder has been with us. We need to improve in several areas, namely pitching. Signing Prince to a huge contract, while solidifying the offense, really gives Melvin no room for error in any other moves. The pitching prospects on the way are still questionable, so even though guys like Gamel, Escobar, McGehee, Lucroy and Lawrie will be cheap for a number of years, this team is going nowhere without pitching. If guys like Arnett, Anundsen, Rivas, Odorizzi, and so on don't work out, this team is going to be a .500 team with no money available to sign a pitcher.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Yeah, OK, they won 90 games with Prince Fielder as a major piece of the roster. Given that they've done that like what, five times in 40 years, I think it's safe to say he helped. I didn't throw the 95 number out there, someone else did.

 

Part of me wants to see Prince Fielder go so some people get a reality check on what his value actually is. It's like people think we can just dump him and find a replacement off the scrap heap.

[Invader3K]

That's the scary thing. It's not like we have some big 1B prospect in the minors right now (at least near MLB-ready). And I'm sorry, but I don't buy that Mat Gamel is going to put up the kind of production at 1B that anyone is looking for. Neither will Casey McGehee.

[logan82]

And I'm sorry, but I don't buy that Mat Gamel is going to put up the kind of production at 1B that anyone is looking for. Neither will Casey McGehee.

If they expect him to hit like Fielder of course not. Expecting Gamel to put up close to or slightly above average numbers for a 1B isn't unrealistic.

[And That]

And while Fielder has improved defensively, Gamel would be vastly superior there with a little work. Maybe not in 2010, but Gamel would be an above-average first baseman in a few years, IMO. The average 1B hit .277/.362/.483. That's well within Gamel's range.

 

That said, there may be value to Fielder being on this team that doesn't come up on the balance sheet. Showing that we're willing to commit to a big time player might, for other baseball players' intelligence or lack thereof, be a sign that the organization has turned a corner, and that might be a lure for guys to come here (even in so far as waiving a no-trade clause). Fielder's presence on the roster will always make acquiring offense that much less of a priority. I also think he'd be a rock in the clubhouse, for however much you count or discount chemistry's effect on the game.

[HiAndTight]

Adam McCalvy with more: http://brewersbeat.mlblogs.com/archives/2010/02/attanasio_no_deadline_for_fiel.html

 

I think Attanasio knows some people had that impression on the Sabathia deal, so I don't think it's just idle talk.

 

 

Edit: Some further comments from Attanasio, along those lines (via Witrado):

He also said that when the team made its offer to CC Sabathia, they were serious about that and had an offer sheet on the table and only needed Sabathia to sign for it to happen.

"It's too much time and effort if it's just a show," he said. "(Fielder's agent) Scott (Boras) is very busy and I'm very busy and Doug Melvin is maybe the busiest of all of us, so I don't think there's any show about it.

"If CC signed that (contract offer), we were committed to that nine-figure proposal. It's easy for someone whose money it isn't to say (it's a show)."

 

Yeah, I know it's become the popular opinion that it was simply for show, but I don't, nor did I ever believe that.

 

It was certainly less than CC was going to be offered elsewhere, but with the talk about him not wanting to play in NYC, our offer certainly wasn't a joke, and the Brewers made it clear there was room to improve the offer. It just so happened the Yankee's started bidding against themselves and things got a little out of control.

 

But to suggest it was for show is pretty insulting to the front office IMO......

 

[TheCrew07]

It's pretty insulting to make an offer for half the years of the other team bidding, regardless of the dollars, and think the player is going to accept the offer.

 

Until the Brewers can compete with the total package, it's not even worth discussing.

[HiAndTight]

Yeah, OK, they won 90 games with Prince Fielder as a major piece of the roster. Given that they've done that like what, five times in 40 years, I think it's safe to say he helped. I didn't throw the 95 number out there, someone else did.

 

Part of me wants to see Prince Fielder go so some people get a reality check on what his value actually is. It's like people think we can just dump him and find a replacement off the scrap heap.

I don't believe anyone has suggested in any way shape or form that Prince didn't help the Brewers achieve the success they've enjoyed the last couple years including the playoff year, so making that type of argument really doesn't serve any purpose. We all know he had a large role in it.

 

It's your position that Prince Fielder is going to help more than "three 20 year olds" that I call into question. First of all, there's a distinction to be made between just 3 20 year old kids and a couple of the games elite prospects, the later of which Fielder would command.

 

So it's really a couple of elite prospects AND nearly 20 million dollars a year or Prince Fielder.

 

When you don't try and skew the actual debate it ends up being far less obvious.

 

 

Personally I would have dealt Prince this off-season and I would have hated to do it. I would have tried to package Prince+Hardy or Prince plus a couple of other nice pieces and tried to pry Bumgardner and Posey away from San Fran. Once I awoke from such a dream, I'd have sought out piching rich teams such as Boston, Texas and San Fran and tried to pry away an elite arm, Kelly, Feliz, Madison and a future 1st basemen, Smoke, Andersen, Villalona...

 

And then take that 150 million and lock up Gallardo, perhaps sign Chapman, go BPA every single round for the next 10 years and probably get what would equal 20-25 additional top 30-45 talents in the later rounds by meeting bonus demands. And still have about 75 million dollars left.

 

Seriously, I love Prince but I think of all the ways that money could improve this team without assuming the same risk and, again, it becomes much more complex than arguing we wouldn't have won X amount of games without Prince.

 

 

The only way I sign him, and I've said this before is if this next year you feel our farm system is ready to start consistently develop impact arms for the next several years and is capable of producing 2-3 good, solid big league pitchers, a couple GOOD relievers, and then a flow of positional players. You need to be able to make up for that salary by developing more peripheral players from within as well. Utility IF'ers, Loogy's, long men...any number of ways you can develop from within.

 

That and I'd like to see Gallardo locked up before doing so. Yo should recieve a deal in the 6 year, 50-54 milion dollar range.

 

I understand Yo could always get injured, but with nice and easy deliver, I just don;'t see the see him dealing with injury concerns.

[HiAndTight]

It's pretty insulting to make an offer for half the years of the other team bidding, regardless of the dollars, and think the player is going to accept the offer.

 

Until the Brewers can compete with the total package, it's not even worth discussing.

And when did we ever make such an offer to either CC or Prince?

 

You lost me somewhere along the way here. I thought we were talking about the actual offer made to CC when they were initially offering one year more and then relating that deal to what we may offer Prince.

 

[AJAY]

I know a lot of fans are mostly interested in wins and losses. However for me personally, I am also very obsessed with the marketing and branding of the Brewers franchise.

 

Bottom Line : I absolutely LOVE having a guy on our team who provides instant name recognition, makes regular all-star appearances, wins homerun derbys, makes it to the cover of video games, makes magazine covers, makes for regular discussion on national sports shows, has the chance to be in the hall of fame, makes our team more attractive to national television, does commercials, and has potential to break records.

 

Prince Fielder is the type of player that makes the Brewers feel like a real "Major League" franchise. I have waited my ENTIRE LIFETIME for this, and thanks to guys like Braun and Fielder, I finally get to know what it feels like to be on the other side for change. I am NOT prepared to give it up. It would absolutely crush me.

 

Winning is wonderful, but I don't want to be the Florida Marlins. I want to win AND I want the Brewers to be high profile and relevant. If the Brewers ever want to be part of the cultural fabric of the sport of baseball and it's history, they badly need to hold on to guys like Prince Fielder.

 

Sign the Prince and give him what he deserves. Make it happen.

[Invader3K]

It's pretty insulting to make an offer for half the years of the other team bidding, regardless of the dollars, and think the player is going to accept the offer.

 

Until the Brewers can compete with the total package, it's not even worth discussing.

That's a bit of a stretch. Supposedly the Brewers' offer was like 5 years and $100 million total. I hate talking like that was some sort of low ball offer. That is still huge money for any player.

 

The Yankees went 2 extra years and tacked on an extra $60 million. They were irresponsible, disrespectful to the game, and threw their cash around like only they usually can. There was nothing the Brewers could do about that. But to talk like the offer the Brewers made to Sabathia was some token gesture is kind of disingenuous, in my opinion.

[davemakovec]

I agree with everything AJAY says. Prince Fielder means a lot more to the Brewers than any of his statistics or the number of wins he provides. He is a symbol of the fact that the Brewers are relevant again, and it's because of superstars like him. A lot of teams have icons (Ichiro for the Mariners, Jeter for the Yankees, Chipper Jones for the Braves, etc.), and they will attract national attention because of it.

 

Additionally, guys like Prince and Braun pack the seats and sell a lot of jerseys. There's financial advantage to having him.

[endaround]

It's pretty insulting to make an offer for half the years of the other team bidding, regardless of the dollars, and think the player is going to accept the offer.

 

Until the Brewers can compete with the total package, it's not even worth discussing.

That's a bit of a stretch. Supposedly the Brewers' offer was like 5 years and $100 million total. I hate talking like that was some sort of low ball offer. That is still huge money for any player.

 

The Yankees went 2 extra years and tacked on an extra $60 million. They were irresponsible, disrespectful to the game, and threw their cash around like only they usually can. There was nothing the Brewers could do about that. But to talk like the offer the Brewers made to Sabathia was some token gesture is kind of disingenuous, in my opinion.

It was a token gesture. Yes the Yankees spent more by putting on more years, but everyone knew Sabathia was getting $120-$130m over 5 years. The Brewers came in 20% below the expected market rate. Sure the Brewers would have loved for Sabathia to accept it, but there was no reason to think he would.

[snyttri]

"The Yankees went 2 extra years and tacked on an extra $60 million. They were irresponsible, disrespectful to the game, and threw their cash around like only they usually can. There was nothing the Brewers could do about that. But to talk like the offer the Brewers made to Sabathia was some token gesture is kind of disingenuous, in my opinion."

It seems like it was a very solid business and baseball decision for the Yankees. They cruised to the World Series title while cutting payroll from the previous season. Their new stadium should help them continue to handle expensive long-term contracts. It would be irresponsible for the Yankees to operate under any team's budget but their own. I think given the markets at the time the CC offer belongs with the Carlos Lee offer in the wishful thinking category.

[WV Brew]

This is a different situation than CC. The Brewers control Prince for 2 more years. That was not true for CC. If Prince wants a longer term deal now to insure his future, the Brewers are the ONLY team that can do that now without Brewers permission.