Corey Hart

[Kelbysdaddy]

Kelby, that ignores the 24 Million they dump with Meche. - Hart around 4M = 20 Million saved(2010-2011). Crew couldn't do it without getting some cash back or getting some of Suppan's contract off the books.

how many years is that 24 mil for? i didnt realize his contract was that big. they might take on suppans 12 to save the other 12

 

 

[Milltownhooker]

It was a orginial a 5 yr 56 Million dollar deal. 2010 & 2011 are 12 Million each.

[RockCoCougars]

Saving 10 Million on Meche isn't a good reason? Suppan may have negative value, but Guillen has less than him. Suppan would probably get around 3 to 4 Million on the open market. Gullien would get a minor league deal.

No way would Suppan get 3-4 million on the open market. Guys who can actually pitch a little like Garland and Washburn have or will barely gotten that. Suppan might be able to finagle a million or so out of a team like Pittsburgh, but that's about it. I'd trade Suppan for Guillen without hesitation.

[TooLiveBrew]

Given the Brewers' current roster, there is no way I'd trade Suppan for Guillen. We already have at least 4, & probably 5 OF if you count Edmonds, that can outproduce Guillen -- 4 or 5 out of 5 roster spots. Right now, we have roughly 10 pitchers that can outperform Soup... out of about 12 roster spots. Both Guillen & Suppan are grossly overpaid at this point, but at least Suppan could actually help us.

[Milltownhooker]

brewers couldn't afford Guillen wiith Meche even with of Suppan involved. Brett Myers got around 5. Bet Suppan could get a bit under.

 

Suppan, Hart & Salome for Meche even then I question if Bush would have to be traded as well.

[BREWERPRIDE]

brewers couldn't afford Guillen wiith Meche even with of Suppan involved. Brett Myers got around 5. Bet Suppan could get a bit under.

 

Suppan, Hart & Salome for Meche even then I question if Bush would have to be traded as well.

Why is this even being questioned? Thats the dumbest thing ive read in a while. Meche was almost as bad as Suppan last year. We are not going to trade Hart people, I dont even know why you want to. Unless you want a really bad platoon with Edmonds and Gerut. Lets give Corey a chance this year and see if he can improve, I know he can.

[Milltownhooker]

Meche had some injuries last year if healthy he'd be the crew's 2nd best pitcher.

 

Hart is a hacker every month he reminds me more of Bill Hall & his decline. Trading him now why he still has some value makes sense. I bet Gerut/Edmonds could out produce him this year. Hart's skill set doesn't tell me he was getting unlucky last year. Swinging at sliders a foot off the plate.

[804Sox]

Meche had some injuries last year if healthy he'd be the crew's 2nd best pitcher.

 

Hart is a hacker every month he reminds me more of Bill Hall & his decline. Trading him now why he still has some value makes sense. I bet Gerut/Edmonds could out produce him this year. Hart's skill set doesn't tell me he was getting unlucky last year. Swinging at sliders a foot off the plate.

he's a poor contact hitter due to the length of his swing (in conjunction with his height). Historically, he hasn't taken many walks, but last year he actually posted the best BB rate of his career. His (potential) strides in plate discipline bear watching in spring training and the beginning of this year. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, if he truly has developed in this area, higher OBP numbers and perhaps more consistent contact (in theory this would result him in seeing pitches better, knowing which pitches he can handle, etc.) could follow, making Hart a decent option in RF.

[TooLiveBrew]

Unfortunately, the team & Hart seem to feel his focus on BBing last season (a team-ordered change in plate approach) sapped his power. As best I'm aware the plan to have Hart focus on taking pitches has been scrapped. I personally wish they'd have him continue to take pitches. His LD% was within career norms, as were his OZ contact % & Zone contact %. The only thing that was down was his HR/FB rate (which iirc tends to fluctuate from year to year in general) at 8.8%, which was also low in 2008 (9.9%). Previously he'd been around 12 or 13%. His swing data from '09 actually pretty closely resembles that of his career year of '07, aside from the HR/FB. I agree that he showed some progression as a hitter last season, & wish that the Brewers would now ask him to focus on putting that discipline together with driving the ball... which, after all, is the job he should be up there to do anyway.

[804Sox]

Unfortunately, the team & Hart seem to feel his focus on BBing last season (a team-ordered change in plate approach) sapped his power. As best I'm aware the plan to have Hart focus on taking pitches has been scrapped. I personally wish they'd have him continue to take pitches. His LD% was within career norms, as were his OZ contact % & Zone contact %. The only thing that was down was his HR/FB rate (which iirc tends to fluctuate from year to year in general) at 8.8%, which was also low in 2008 (9.9%). Previously he'd been around 12 or 13%. His swing data from '09 actually pretty closely resembles that of his career year of '07, aside from the HR/FB. I agree that he showed some progression as a hitter last season, & wish that the Brewers would now ask him to focus on putting that discipline together with driving the ball... which, after all, is the job he should be up there to do anyway.

The only explanation I can think of (and those of you who watch Hart play far more then I do should weigh in on this assessment) is that Hart used to hit most of his HR on early-count fastballs, and the emphasis placed on taking pitches put him behind in the count early and forced him to swing at more breaking pitches and "out pitches." This would be similar to Jeff Francoeur's progression. He had more power, higher Avg, and higher OPS when he was punishing early count mistakes, but when pitchers realized how aggressive he was early in the count they didn't give him the fastballs over the plate to hit. Francoeur had to adapt. As such, I don't think a return to his initial approach is going to help Hart regain his lost power because the pitchers still aren't going to give away pitches to him early in the count. He would be best served continuing to refine his approach so that it becomes less about taking pitches for the sake of taking them and more about looking for specific pitches to drive.

[thebruce44]

See the Hart discussion in the MLB forum. Pitchers have stopped throwing him fastballs and have started throwing him more sliders since his 2007. He seems unable to adjust.

 

In response to BREWERPRIDE, I personally think Gerut alone could probably out produce Hart this season. Besides, Gerut and Edmonds wouldn't be platooned togeather since both are lefties.

[804Sox]

See the Hart discussion in the MLB forum. Pitchers have stopped throwing him fastballs and have started throwing him more sliders since his 2007. He seems unable to adjust.

That's what I suspected. So, the remedy would seem to be better plate discipline. If Hart can learn to lay off the junk early in the count and get ahead, he can force the pitcher to throw FB for a strike in a favorable count. This would result in better OBP and, hopefully, a bit more power as he gets more pitches to drive and lift.

[thebruce44]

Yes, but currently he doesn't seem to be able to lay off the outside slider. His "better" plate discipline last year seemed to just be taking more pitches instead of actually identifying pitcher's pitches. It also robbed him of his power. He doesn't work the strike zone, spoil pitches, and then drive his pitch like Prince will do. At this stage of his career, it doesn't seem likely he will suddenly learn this skill.

[3Putt]

Another concern is his sudden lack of speed numbers which started last year. Compared to previous years he seemed to be half running to first. With his new contract he'll be even less motivated. If the right deal comes along I'd be inclined to move him while he still has value. We don't need another Bill Hall.