Brewers sign Jim Edmonds to minor league deal, big league invite

[ELCABALLO45]

Gomez needs to play everyday. I hate this deal if we are planning on playing Edmonds against right handers in Center

[TooLiveBrew]

"I talked to someone who saw Edmonds recently and said he's in great shape."

 

I'm guessing "someone" = someone on the Brewers' F.O./scouting staff

[trwi7]

I'm sure Edmonds still considers himself a CF, it'd be hard not to after playing your career there. On top of that, his $$ value is higher in CF. However, I hope the Brewers are intelligent enough to recognize that he is not a CF anymore, and should only be an emergency option there.

 

"They told me that I would get a chance to play every day against right-handers," said Edmonds, who indicated he was told he would mostly play center field but could also spell Brewers left fielder Ryan Braun or right fielder Corey Hart.

Err, if that's true, I don't really like it. Especially with Wolf, Gallardo and Bush being flyball pitchers. An outfield defense of Braun/Edmonds/Hart would make me cry.

 

http://brewersbeat.mlblogs.com/archives/2010/01/edmonds_appears_on_st_louis_ra.html

 

[MadScientist]

"They told me that I would get a chance to play every day against right-handers," said Edmonds, who indicated he was told he would mostly play center field but could also spell Brewers left fielder Ryan Braun or right fielder Corey Hart.

Err, if that's true, I don't really like it. Especially with Wolf, Gallardo and Bush being flyball pitchers. An outfield defense of Braun/Edmonds/Hart would make me cry.

 

http://brewersbeat.mlblogs.com/archives/2010/01/edmonds_appears_on_st_louis_ra.html

Well a chance to play is not the same as starting. The quote could be honest and still refer to pinch hitting and double switches more than anything else.

[trwi7]

Okay, Gord Ash just did an interview during the first intermission of the Admirals game.

 

A few notes.

 

He said Edmonds is likely to be a pinch hitter and get some time at first base as well. Didn't even talk about how he had to win a job. Sounds like if he's even decent, he'll have the job.

 

They like Gomez for his defense and they're trying to get away from "relying on the homer."

 

Asked about third base. Mentioned McGehee, Gamel and Counsell. Said you'd obviously like a young guy like Gamel to either get the job in the majors or send him back to the minors. Doesn't know if that will happen. Pretty disappointing to hear that.

[MNBrew]

I don't get some folks' assertions that Edmonds in CF is basically the equivalent of putting Ryan Braun back at 3B or putting Izzy Alcantara anywhere. An 8x Gold Glove CF who's lost a step or two still should be a league-average CF defensively. The guy has more big-league OF experience (1805 games) than Braun, Hart, Gomez, & Gerut combined (1572). Intelligent approaches & play can overcome at least a bit of age-induced physical regression.

 

I don't get the resentment. If he sucks, he's gone. If he's playing everyday, then either 1) everyone else is playing totally terribly or is terribly hurt, which in the worst case of the former it truly wouldn't matter who you put out there anyway if Edmonds stunk, too, or 2) he's flat out out-playing whomever he's bumped to the bench.

 

He's also only costing us $850K before incentives. That's less than Gomez and less than half of Gerut. Assuming he makes the team, he's the cheapest bat in the OF. I'd far prefer Edmonds PH-ing for the pitcher in the 9th inning of a close game than, for instance, Gerut, Catalanotto (terrible last year as a PH, so gone), or an Adam Heether-type (and don't get me wrong, I like Heether as a future Brewer).

 

His age doesn't guarantee he'll be bad. He well may be. Most of you could find the stats to back up such a prediction 25x before I'd find 'em once. But the game's not played on paper, and for every "rule" or trend there are exceptions (I'll take the performance of a purple-clad 40-year-old #4 QB from this past year over whatever Tarvaris Jackson might've done regardless of Jackson's youthful age, raw skills, and potential upside because Jackson NEVER could approach what Favre actually did). I believe Edmonds was a brilliant signing. He's got a body of work that more than justifies at least giving him the chance to prove if he can still perform or not. If he can't cut it anymore, then he won't last anyway, all the naysayers around here will be vindicated, and the Brewers will only be out an inconsequential slice of their payroll.

[TooLiveBrew]

An 8x Gold Glove CF who's lost a step or two still should be a league-average CF defensively.

 

He was below-average in 2007, disastrously bad in '08, & hasn't played in a year. I don't think it's out of line at all to expect him to continue to be well below average in terms of defense.

[Funketown]

I don't get some folks' assertions that Edmonds in CF is basically the equivalent of putting Ryan Braun back at 3B or putting Izzy Alcantara anywhere. An 8x Gold Glove CF who's lost a step or two still should be a league-average CF defensively. The guy has more big-league OF experience (1805 games) than Braun, Hart, Gomez, & Gerut combined (1572). Intelligent approaches & play can overcome at least a bit of age-induced physical regression.

I don't personally put much stock in Gilded Gloves. Edmonds was terrible in the outfield for the Cubs in 2008. He took terrible paths to the ball; many of the 'highlight reel' plays he made would have looked routine for an average center fielder.

 

Especially in the outfield, I think you see a lot of guys who just fall of the face of the earth, in terms of defensive value.

 

If Edmonds is a league-average center fielder (defensively) next year, either Nyjer Morgan, Mike Cameron, Franklin Guitierrez, and Carlos Gomez all fall down a mystery time warp a la Ozzie Smith in the Simpsons, or something magical has happened.

[Ennder]

I don't personally put much stock in Gilded Gloves. Edmonds was terrible in the outfield for the Cubs in 2008. He took terrible paths to the ball; many of the 'highlight reel' plays he made would have looked routine for an average center fielder.

 

Especially in the outfield, I think you see a lot of guys who just fall of the face of the earth, in terms of defensive value.

 

If Edmonds is a league-average center fielder (defensively) next year, either Nyjer Morgan, Mike Cameron, Franklin Guitierrez, and Carlos Gomez all fall down a mystery time warp a la Ozzie Smith in the Simpsons, or something magical has happened.

I completely agree with this yet I think Edmonds should fill in at CF before Hart does. Hart is below average in RF and is a disaster in CF. Hopefully when Gomez needs a day off we use Gerut.

[MNBrew]

An element of perspective is vital here: If Edmonds gets a normal amount of OF playing time that would be typical for a 5th OF, any impact of his defensive regression would be hardly noticeable given how relatively small a sample that would be.

 

I have to agree with Melvin's approach: Low-risk, high-reward. If Edmonds does great, then it was a shrewd move. If he totally sucks, it should show enough (a la Trot Nixon) and he won't be around -- or at least not for any prolonged period of time. If he's still "got it," then he's on the team. If he doesn't, then he's gone at practically no cost.

[splitterpfj]

I love this move.

 

With a deal like this, I'm thrilled that the Brewers are the team that will find out if Edmonds has anything left.

[clancyphile]

A lot also depends on his bat. If the Edmonds the Brewers get is the guy who posted a .937 OPS for the Cubs, then he's gonna get a fair bit more playing time than if he's the 2007 version of Edmonds.

 

Gomez may have a good glove, but a .937 OPS doesn't stay on the bench.

[Flood Pants]

A lot also depends on his bat. If the Edmonds the Brewers get is the guy who posted a .937 OPS for the Cubs, then he's gonna get a fair bit more playing time than if he's the 2007 version of Edmonds.

 

Gomez may have a good glove, but a .937 OPS doesn't stay on the bench.

It's entirely possible, though, that Gomez's defense compared to Edmond's defense makes Gomez worth more runs in centerfield, even with the weaker offense. I'd hope that if Edmonds bumps anyone, it's Hart.

[Invader3K]

I really doubt they traded for Gomez to let him ride the bench. He'll be given every chance to prove himself defensively in CF.

[JohnBriggs12]

Gord Ash: Edmonds is likely to be a pinch hitter and get some time at first base as well.

 

Oh really Gord? Are you aware that Edmonds is not an experienced pinch hitter He has 79 PH AB's in 16 seasons. That's an average of 5 per season. That's less than Gerut and way less than Counsell. Given his long swing and infamiliarity with that role, he likely wouldn't get enough ABs to stay sharp. If they are thinking of him as a Matt Stairs type, they need to think again. As for 1st base, are you serious? Innings played at first base by anyone not named Fielder in 2009: Zero. I wouldn't be tempted ever to take Fielder out in favor of Edmond s myself.

 

Personally, I don't think Edmonds will hit enough to earn playing time if he makes the team. So if he makes the team that's taking a spot away from a younger player. But if he were to prove me wrong and hit like the Edmonds of old, then he has to be platooned with Hart in RF. That makes his LH bat valuable as a 2nd one in the lineup. They have LH bats off the bench. He's not needed there.

[monty57]

I agree, JB. However, as cynical as I am, here's my prediction:

 

Edmonds will make the team, and will have a hot week to start the season. Edmonds will see more & more PT, and will get the majority of PT in CF, with Gomez getting more & more bench time. Edmonds' stat line will be respectable for the first part of the season due to a hot start, so people will feel this is justified, because "Gomez grounds out weakly to 2nd base every time up," and "Edmonds is still pretty good in the field, remember that diving catch he made." Gerut will not get more than 10 PAs in the first month. Hart will hit well enough (and make one leaping play at the wall) to keep him playing everyday, waiting for him to "break out." Melvin will say nothing. At the end of the year, Macha will get an extension, while Melvin will say something to the equivalent of "we misused Gomez a bit this season, and probably should have either played him more or sent him to AAA to get more playing time." This would be roughly the equivalent of 2009 giving Bill Hall 3B for no reason, not giving McGehee any ABs early on, and using Counsell's early season hot streak to justify playing him over Gamel, wasting a year of Gamel being "Brewer property."

 

If it weren't for my fear of the above happening, I would be happy with this signing, as I think if used correctly, Edmonds could be helpful to this year's team, and does address the shocking lack of MLB-ready OFs in our system. I do feel bad for Gerut, as I feel that with PT, he's capable of being an .800+ OPS player that can play all three OF positions. Under Macha, there is no way Gerut plays if Edmonds is on the MLB team.

[Invader3K]

Come on. Barring injury, I just cannot envision any scenario in which Gomez does not get the majority of the playing time in CF at the start of the season.

[Ennder]

I don't think Gomez will lose playing time unless he shows an attitude problem of some type.

[yount19.u]

To be fair, Gerut did not give Macha many reasons to play him last year until late August when he finally started hitting. And I don't think Edmonds will get extra at bats if he is struggling and Hart/Gomez/Gerut are not. It could be a season of going with the hot hand in CF and RF unless someone clearly steps up and takes the job. At least they will have a deep outfield to start the year compared to last season.

[monty57]

Going into last season, how many would've said Gamel would be called up to sit the bench so that Counsell could play more?

 

I don't doubt that Melvin traded for Gomez to be the starter, and I don't doubt that they signed Edmonds to be a backup. I do doubt that Macha will be able to let Edmonds sit on the bench while a 24-year-old struggles. I hope it doesn't happen, but I believe in actions over words. The actions I saw last year are that Macha is going to manage the team the way he wants. He seemed to favor older players to younger ones, and "the future" (aka player development) doesn't matter. He wasn't censured for this, he was brought back... why would he change?

 

It's likely that Gomez will struggle at the plate, and his ability to steal bases doesn't appear to be something Macha holds in high regard. When he struggles, if Edmonds is showing any signs of life at the plate, I worry that Macha will play Edmonds at the expense of Gomez. Since Macha doesn't understand that 5 games isn't a large enough sample size to make statistics-based decisions, I highly doubt he uses "advanced defensive matrics." As long as Edmonds cathces most of the balls hit his way and makes a couple of diving catches, Macha will think he's fine in the field.

 

Of course, I also feel that Gerut is probably our second best OF (all around), and he's the guy who is almost assured of no playing time, so maybe I'm letting that skew things. As I said, I like the pick-up of Edmonds, but I worry that Macha will turn it into a bad move, especially if Edmonds is able to hit a couple out of the park in the first week or so.

[logan82]

Asked about third base. Mentioned McGehee, Gamel and Counsell. Said you'd obviously like a young guy like Gamel to either get the job in the majors or send him back to the minors. Doesn't know if that will happen. Pretty disappointing to hear that.

 

Holy crap Gamel not starting either in AAA or the Majoirs would be a bad idea of epic proportions. Doesn't konw if that will happen? I hope he isn't serious after talking about how they did Gamel such a disservice by not playing him or sending him down in 2009.

Of course, I also feel that Gerut is probably our second best OF (all around), and he's the guy who is almost assured of no playing time, so maybe I'm letting that skew things. As I said, I like the pick-up of Edmonds, but I worry that Macha will turn it into a bad move, especially if Edmonds is able to hit a couple out of the park in the first week or so.

 

Yeah I have to agree. This is good move that Macha can make bad really quickly. Our best outfield alignments would probably be Braun/Gerut/ Edmonds against righties and Braun/Gomez/Hart against lefties. I am a firm believer in not giving a manager sharp things to play with like young players who should be getting playing time(Gamel) and gritty veterans with little(Kendall) or no talent(Patterson).

[TooLiveBrew]

I took the comment "doesn't know if that will happen" to mean Melvin didn't know if Gamel would get the job at 3B in MLB. I could easily be wrong, though.

[trwi7]

I took the comment "doesn't know if that will happen" to mean Melvin didn't know if Gamel would get the job at 3B in MLB. I could easily be wrong, though.

 

Ash. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

Just listening to it, it sounds like they're going to have Macha make the roster decisions and they don't know who he's going to take. That's the way it sounded to me.

[TooLiveBrew]

Listening to Melvin on ESPN 540AM from yesterday (via Mass Haas's link in the audio thread) right now. I noticed something Melvin said about the outfield while discussing Edmonds...

"He'll come to camp, try to win a job... not a lot of money -- it wasn't the issue with him ... the fires were burning, he wants to get back in and play the game...

We're looking forward to it, I think it ... brings experience to our lineup, to our ballclub, and to the clubhouse... our outfield is all right-handed, with Hart, Gomez, and Ryan Braun. So there could be some playing time here for Jim Edmonds if he's able to play.

As of yesterday, it appears that Doug Melvin's starting outfield doesn't vary much from what we all assumed it would be immediately after the Hardy-Gomez trade. I think we can relax a bit about this (for now).

[logan82]

I have no problem with letting the manager make the decisions for a team over the course of the year, at least from an organizational standpoint. I think the GM has to step in on stuff that will effect a team long term though. Things like Gamel sitting the bench and acquiring service time.