What's up with Corey Hart? Latest: Hart wins arbitration hearing (post # 190)

[sheethead]

For some reason, this doesn't seem to be happening with other players on our team.

 

Yep, just one player actually. Two years in a row.

[logan82]

I guess many people are also angry with Villanueva for taking a whole week to negotiate after numbers were exchanged as well. It's really not a big deal until it goes to arbitration.

[RockCoCougars]

Come on, who can blame the guy for trying to recoup some of the $30-$40 million he likely left on the table when he turned down the long term contract? Brewers dodged a big time bullet there.

[sheethead]

I think Melvin submitted a figure that will win in arbitration. He could have offered under $4MM and it would have been a fair offer for Corey Hart. I am actually hoping this goes to a hearing.

[thebruce44]

Prior to the emergency appendectomy in August 2009, Hart had turned in two good months, one so-so month, & one bad month. He came out of the gates very strong in April, struggled in May, turned in a roughly average June, and hit well again in July. I don't think it's a stretch to think that without the fluky injury/ailment he'd have turned in a season OPS over .800. He was in the high .700s before the appendectomy, and all it really would have taken was another average month plus another good month, which really isn't that unrealistic given his other performance in 2009.

 

Fans just tend to get way too down on players (Bush, Parra, Gamel, Hart, etc.) way too easily imo -- heck, even Fielder at times.

And I don't think its a stretch to think he would have struggled the rest of the way and been well below an 0.800 OPS. Couple that with the fact that his fielding has regressed since his steller 2007 and I can totally understand why people are down on him.

 

This isn't Bush or Parra pitching through an injury. This isn't Gamel putting up numbers as good as Hart when he actually got playing time. This is a player underpreforming for 1.5 seasons now. And in terms of his defense it looks like just a lack of effort to me, although I am sure he is working his butt off behind the scenes so I am willing to conclude he just isn't very baseball smart as others have said.

[trwi7]

I don't think it's a stretch to think that without the fluky injury/ailment he'd have turned in a season OPS over .800.

He was hitting .268/.335/.433/.768 before the DL and he finished the year hitting .260/.335/.418/.753. I think it's very unlikely that he finishes the season with an OPS over .800 if he isn't on the DL. What are the chances you add 32 points to your OBP and/or SLG% that late in the season?

 

logan3825 wrote:

---

I guess many people are also angry with Villanueva for taking a whole week to negotiate after numbers were exchanged as well.

Well, Hart was hours away from going to a hearing before he signed last year and this year and this year Gord Ash says "It seems we say this every year, but this time there's something to it. It's looking more and more like that one's going to a hearing."

 

Was that ever said about any other arbitration eligible player by the assistant GM? Maybe there would be something to what you're saying if this was the first time it's happened. But this is 2 for 2 for Hart.

[logan82]

Why does it upset people that a player would try to get all the money he can out of the team? I can understand being upset about Hart being paid $4M+ and could go either way on whether he is worth that. I really don't see the big deal about a player waiting until the last minute to sign.

 

How much negotiating can really be done until figures are exchanged? I would think it in the best interest of both parties to be pretty vague about the numbers they are going to submit otherwise one side or the other could change their number closer to the middle to improve their chances of winning the hearing.

[Invader3K]

logan, I'm not personally upset about it. It just shows a pattern of irony (to put it nicely) that he went through a similar situation last year, and also reportedly turned down a contract that would have paid him a much larger amount in the past.

 

I personally hope Melvin holds the line and takes him to arbitration. He should be grateful for a $900,000 raise at this point.

[tigerbrew]

Hopefully Hart comes in with a slight chip on his shoulder and proves the critics wrong. I am not going to be overly optimistic about him, though.

Maybe the experience of losing in an arbitration hearing could give Hart that chip on his shoulder and motivate him to prove his critics wrong. At this point, I don't really care if Hart is offended by criticisms from Brewers management or fans.

[rluzinski]

Unless Corey is looking at mediocre former Brewers Outfielders that were overpaid (Grissom, Jenkins, Hammonds, etc), I can't fathom how he thinks he deserves a big raise based on his performance. I am an Econ guy, but it's frustrating to see Corey fighting over dollars he didn't earn, while I'll likely be taking my third consecutive paycut as a teacher (and I'll be entering my 4th year as a teacher). I'm not trying to play the teacher salary-card...I'm in better shape than most since I actually have a degree in something besides Education. However, I want Corey to be great and don't want to hear about him being disappointed with the Brewers' arbitration offer than is roughly 25% higher than last year's salary.

First, as disappointing as Hart has been the last couple of years, he is still worth millions of dollars to whatever team has his services. I doubt anyone reading this right now can say the same. FWIW, Fangraphs had his performance worth (in average free agent dollars), $3.2 mil last year and $4.6 mil the year before. If he was worth what a school teacher was worth to his employer, he wouldn't even be in the league.

 

Second, a pre-free agent, arbitration eligible player doesn't have to improve to "deserve" more money the following year. Rule of thumb-wise, arby guys are paid something like 40%, 60% and 80% of their free agent value during their 3 arbitration seasons. Maybe Hart is just upset that he was paid only $400k for his great 2007 performance?

 

Maximizing his earnings...it seems unlikely he's going to lose anything

by not settling now, it seems the offer will still be there in a few

days.

 

Presuming he was subsequently offered something more than the Brewer's arbitration number (as all the rest were), doesn't he run the risk of losing that better offer?

[Invader3K]

"I doubt anyone reading this right now can say the same. FWIW, Fangraphs had his performance worth (in average free agent dollars), $3.2 mil last year and $4.6 mil the year before. If he was worth what a school teacher was worth to his employer, he wouldn't even be in the league."

 

Come on. You knew you were going to be called out on this, right? I guess I'll be the one to do it.

 

And I don't really care what Fangraphs says. I'm don't have a beef with his salary last year...but it's clear he didn't earn a huge raise. A $900,000 raise is pretty darn generous. His production is replaceable. If he is angry that he turned down a larger contract earlier in his career, he can look in the mirror for who he has to blame.

[bobskube]

What's up with Corey Hart? What's up? He stinks. That's what's up. And worse still--he doesn't realize it. Maybe it's not his fault. But that long foul ball home run he hit when he first came up is almost a perfect metaphor for his career.

I was right about Hardy, Hall, and Hart. They are just not as good as many thought. All have serious holes in their swings. Ahh, but nobody listens and gives me some padded stat that ends up meaning nothing.

 

Hardy>Hart>Hall. Triple H of Garbage.

[Ennder]

What's up with Corey Hart? What's up? He stinks. That's what's up. And worse still--he doesn't realize it. Maybe it's not his fault. But that long foul ball home run he hit when he first came up is almost a perfect metaphor for his career.

I was right about Hardy, Hall, and Hart. They are just not as good as many thought. All have serious holes in their swings. Ahh, but nobody listens and gives me some padded stat that ends up meaning nothing.

 

Hardy>Hart>Hall. Triple H of Garbage.

It was pretty easy to be right about Hall, nothing suggested he was a great player. The verdict is still very much out on Hardy, two good years followed by a down year.

[nate82]

I don't know why this is a shock to anyone but I believe Hart went to arbitration last year also even when the Brewers made a competitive bid for Hart last year. If I remember correctly everyone but Hart last year avoided arbitration. This shouldn't have been a surprise that Hart was going to take it all the way to arbitration.

[Dragonbait]

No body has gone to arby under Melvin's watch as a Brewers.

[Invader3K]

I don't know why this is a shock to anyone but I believe Hart went to arbitration last year also even when the Brewers made a competitive bid for Hart last year. If I remember correctly everyone but Hart last year avoided arbitration. This shouldn't have been a surprise that Hart was going to take it all the way to arbitration.

No, Hart almost went to arbitration last year, but signed literally hours before the hearing. This year, hearing comments from the Brewers' negotiator on brewers.com, it sounds like they do not want to face that same scenario again and are basically set on going to arbitration now.

 

Arbitration hearings are scheduled for Feb. 1-21 in the Tampa-St.

Petersburg area, and while both sides are barred from revealing the

precise date, it's believed that Hart's is still several weeks away.

Last year, negotiations with Hart went down to the wire before the

sides struck a $3.25 million deal on the eve of a hearing.

"We just don't have the appetite to go through that again," Werner

said. "We made a good-faith effort to get something done a few weeks

ahead of time, but at some point you've got to say, 'It's time to

prepare for a case.' Nobody wants to go to a hearing, but I don't want

to be in a position in a couple of weeks where we're back to where we

are today, talking about the same number. To me, that's a waste of time

for both sides.

 

"Barring a drastic change in the landscape," Werner added, "we're probably going down to Tampa in a few weeks."

 

[Nottso]

A couple of years ago when the Brewers were negotiating with someone, or had just extended someone for not a huge amount of money, Hart came out publicly with the "aw shucks" act. I can't remember the exact words, but it was something like "I wish they'd offer me something like that. I've got 3 kids, and am just looking for some security." I'll admit it... I took the bait. I pulled hard for Hart to do well. I based my fan-dom on his words, and his actions have been completely contrary to those words. I am hugely disappointed.

[berniebrewer4life]

I always liked corey, and have pulled for him to do well. However, baseball is a business(on both sides). I understand why he wants all the money he is asking for, but he's probably not worth it. The problem with asking for a raise that big is, he has no leverage. They have players who will put up similar production, for less money. I honestly hope this one goes to arby, and he loses. Maybe then he will realize it's not just management that feels he is overvaluing himself. It might light a spark under him, and help him reach his potential.

[TooLiveBrew]

Melvin really (imo) stepped up to take some heat off of Hart on his ESPN radio interview yesterday. Granted, a player's agent essentially does what the player tells him to do, but I found it interesting that Doug made a point of mentioning

"We just can't come to an agreement with his representative. You know, players aren't really involved in these things the representatives are, their agents are, and our latest ongoing conversations are [that] we probably will be going to that [arbitration] hearing."

[JJHardy7]

Brewers haved pulled their latest offer off the table...

 

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/83198212.html

[Invader3K]

I love it. Hart and his agent have really messed this whole situation up, and it's going to cost Hart a decent chunk of change.

 

"We made a final offer that we thought was a good offer," said Werner.

"It's significantly higher than the number we filed. They didn't like

it. I said, 'See you in Tampa in a couple of weeks.'"

[Funketown]

Well, let's hope this is $650,000 saved. Arbitration hearings can be a bit unpredictable, but I don't see how Hart can justify that raise. What would he even get on the FA market at this point? Something like 2/10, 3/14?

 

If we take the 40/60/80 system as law (which it clearly isn't), this would be like Hart saying he's worth $8MM on the FA market. Take it for what it's worth.

[jerichoholicninja]

If Corey gets his raise despite the season he had last year, that arbitrator needs to fine a new job.

[ilovebeer]

Cory was just on wtmj radio and said he has lost weight this offseason, i think he needs to go.

[Invader3K]

Cory was just on wtmj radio and said he has lost weight this offseason, i think he needs to go.

Yeah, someone mentioned on the JSOnline blog that he made comments alluding to wanting to stay a Brewer, and how he hated when he heard rumors he was going to be dealt to the Mets. Sounds like he and his agent are in full spin control at this point.

 

I want to root for the guy (I want all Brewers to succeed...I was still pulling for Hall last season), but this whole situation just does not paint him in a good light.