What's up with Corey Hart? Latest: Hart wins arbitration hearing (post # 190)

[brewcrew7]

expect that if given the full time starting role Gerut will put up far better numbers this season.

 

As far as what Hart must have done to earn his salary bump, the only thing I can figure is he must have flashed his newly formed six pack (since he just lost 20lbs) at the two female arbiters.

 

One other question I had about the process. Can we even be sure the arbitrators even fully understand baseball statistics?

My question with these topics is, do posters on the internet fully understand what goes into an arbitration hearing? And the answer is probably not. Players make lower salaries until arbitration and then slowly get an increase based on performance. I don't find it hard to believe that Hart won the case. He is still making a very manageable salary for a starting player. Had he had a good year last year he would have made even more. And I believe he can do more than the broken down options that some are saying he should be replaced with. If we remember back a year plus, this guy was a player with quite a few tools. Now he has a down year and we are ready to throw him away because he is making over 4 mil. I seem to think this is a bit rash and look for him to do some good things this year.

[joepepsi]

I don't have any ill will toward Hart. He will need to have a great year this year in order to hit the payday. This win increases the chance for him to be non-tendered next year. If that happens, he will need to have a really good year under his belt to get the money he wants.

I want him to do well too. I expect him to put up better numbers than the previous two seasons.

 

It will be ironic if this year's award causes him to be too expensive next year; forcing the Brewers to release him, leaving him signing a Jody Gerut type deal with another team in 2011.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I think there's a lot of overreacting here. I think Hart can be a pretty good player. He's lost 20 pounds this year in an effort to stay fresh and quick on his feet. He did take a nosedive in 2008 and never really recovered, but this guy was voted into an AS game. If he can capture some of that magic again this really isn't that big of a deal.

[thebruce44]

endaround]So Xavier Nady, the only one listed comparable to Hart, got $3m despite not even playing last season and we're supposed to be incredibly upset that Hart got $4.8m? $700K makes no difference to the Brewers, the likely reason they went to arby anyway since it looks like MLB decided to make another stupid arbitration stand this year (making Lincecum your poster case is so foolish only Bud's men could come up with that plan.)

So Hart should have gotten 60% of what he would have been worth on the open market...maybe around $2 mil.

 

And 700k makes no difference? That could very well be the difference between adding a RP at the trade deadline for a playoff run.

[BREWERPRIDE]

I agree, its over, I just want to move on.

 

Can the season start yet?

[Oldcity]

I'm not angry at Hart at all, and I don't care all that much about the money. I just don't understand how anyone felt he deserved it.

[thebruce44]

My question with these topics is, do posters on the internet fully understand what goes into an arbitration hearing? And the answer is probably not. Players make lower salaries until arbitration and then slowly get an increase based on performance. I don't find it hard to believe that Hart won the case.

I love when people answer their own questions with sweeping generalizations. I think the majority of posters here understand how the Arby system is "supposed" to work and are upset that it didn't work as intended in this case. Hart's performance compared to his contemporaries means he should be making around 60% of 3-4 million. That, in theory, is how the system is supposed to work. Every couple of years though it gets thrown out of wack by someone like Ryan Howard and this year Hart and Lincecum. FA salaries have decreased due to the economy. In theory, Arby salaries should have done the same. They haven't and now there is no advantage for a team to build from within when they can get a couple of stand in FAs with no long term commitment.

 

I agree with those who would like to cut Hart. Dye would be a much better player, or even Gerut for the year. There are plenty of young guys coming up who I expect to out perform Hart after this season so you wouldn't be hurting yourself long term either. Hopefully Hart proves me wrong, but until he can hit the steady diet of outside sliders he will be getting for the rest of his career, I don't see that happening.

 

Also, this is a lot of money to be spending on one of the worst RFers in baseball for a team who admittedly has no flexibility in terms of payroll going into the season.

[jhart05]

All right Corey, the Brewers, but more importantly, my APBA team, and my Replay PC team, need you to get back to your 2007 form. Make the adjustment to counter what pitchers are doing to you. That's what separates good players from the average players.

 

Get in the batting cage, learn how to recognize which outside sliders you can plunk into right field for a base hit, and which ones you need to lay off of. Do that, and there is the extra hit a week they talk about that separates a .250 hitter from a .300 hitter, and there is your big payday next year.

[thebruce44]

I think there's a lot of overreacting here. I think Hart can be a pretty good player. He's lost 20 pounds this year in an effort to stay fresh and quick on his feet. He did take a nosedive in 2008 and never really recovered, but this guy was voted into an AS game. If he can capture some of that magic again this really isn't that big of a deal.

It seems much more likely he will learn magic than learn to hit that outside slider. Here's to Corey and the black arts!http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

 

[rluzinski]

Fielder got ripped by the fans for complaining that the system was only paying him $400k after a great year. Now fans are angry at Hart for using the system to get an extra $700k after a bad season. I don't know what to say to that.

[berniebrewer4life]

I found this very promising from the article in JS.

 

"I've just got to win them back over. I always play hard. I'll try to put up good numbers and get them back on my side."

 

He realizes he had a down year, and needs to win back the fans. You recognize the challange Corey. Go out there and play well, and everybody will forget about this.

[valpocrewsader]

$700K makes no difference to the Brewers

$700K makes no difference to the same organization that threw themselves into controversy and risked losing community/fan support by squeezing $300 out of local bars that deliver customers to their doorstep? Gonna have to go ahead and disagree with you there.

 

I would love for them to cut Corey Hart. He swings over the top of pitches in the lower half of the strikezone (!), he can't catch a flyball and subsequently throw with his body into it, he takes stupid pills on the basepaths, his angles in the field are shakey. I already didn't like him, now I especially can't wait for him to no longer be a member of the Brewers. I'll have no sympathy for him regardless of how ruthlessly the fans treat him this year. His precious pile of 700,000 un-warranted dollar bills can dry his tears.

 

Those who mention "jelousy" in this debate are out of line. Jealousy has nothing to do with it. We could be talking about $48,000 and $42,000 and the same principles would still apply. And no, not everyone in this forum, knowing he had a disappointing year for his employer the year before, would have stubbornly rejected the first raise offer and done everything possible to grab every last extra penny. Plenty of us here would have been respectful of, even thankful for, the plainly fair and generous raise and pledged to work hard and improve.

 

 

 

[JohnBriggs12]

Supposedly Hart's people used Josh Willingham's $4.6 million as a comparable.

 

Can someone please point to one stat other than stolen bases where Josh Willingham isn't clearly superior to Corey Hart offensively? Put Willingham in a lineup with Fielder and Braun and the differences would be even more stark. Is there one person out there that wouldn't trade Corey Hart straight up for Josh Willingham?

 

I don't blame Hart. I blame the knuckleheads on the panel that don't know baseball.

[OldHoss]

The arbitration system works as it is intended to. Moreover, the arbitration system clearly favors management. The Brewers are spending far less on the Braun/Fielder/Hart combo than they would if we did not have the arbitration system and Braun, Fielder and Hart each became free agents after their initial contract expired.

Further, the arbitration system is the reason that Prince or Braun and maybe even Yo isn't a Yankee or a Red Sox right now. Not only does the system allow us to control those players for a certain period of time, but it allows us to do so at a price well below market value.

[zzzmanwitz]

It should be noted that Corey Hart is a former All Star and that was probably a point made by Corey's representation. It should also be noted that we Brewer Fans voted him in as the Last Man.

 

Clearly, it is the fault of us Brewer fans that Corey Hart is making and extra .7 Million this season.

[thebruce44]

The arbitration system works as it is intended to. Moreover, the arbitration system clearly favors management....Not only does the system allow us to control those players for a certain period of time, but it allows us to do so at a price well below market value.

 

With regards to Hart this season, that couldn't possibly be more incorrect.

[Funketown]

Moreover, the arbitration system clearly favors management. The Brewers are spending far less on the Braun/Fielder/Hart combo than they would if we did not have the arbitration system and Braun, Fielder and Hart each became free agents after their initial contract expired.

 

The issue is more complicated than this. Teams pour an exceptional amount of resources into drafting, scouting, player development, signing bonuses, etc. If teams were not rewarded with control over these players, they would not spend as much in any of these areas. For every player making $400 K to put up all-star numbers, there is a Brent Brewer or a Cutter Dykstra. For players who make it to the majors, it favors management, but for those who never touch AAA and pocket $600-$700 K, the system favors players.

[BREWERPRIDE]

It should be noted that Corey Hart is a former All Star and that was probably a point made by Corey's representation. It should also be noted that we Brewer Fans voted him in as the Last Man.

 

Clearly, it is the fault of us Brewer fans that Corey Hart is making and extra .7 Million this season.

Sorry we has fans try to support or players.

[Tbadder]

Awesome Corey. You are now only the second Brewer I love to hate. If only you could be one tenth the player Gary Sheffield was. What a bright boy.

[monty57]

I don't bear any ill will towards Hart. However, prediction services project him to be an average offensive RF, and I think those services are being generous, as he's been in the bottom third of RF for two years. This arby hearing assures that no matter how poorly he plays this year, he will make around $6MM next year, and if he turns it around and plays well, he'll demand $7-8MM. $6MM is too much if he's a .750 OPS RF. $7-8MM is probably (we'll see how the market goes) too much for him if he has a decent year.

 

While I understand those who feel he should be cut on the spot, I highly doubt it will happen. I'll cheer for Hart this year and hope he can turn it around, even though I suspect Gerut could do at least as well as Hart if given a full season to play. I just feel that this decision makes it much more likely that he won't be offered arby after the season. It also probably assures that Hart will see full-time duty in RF, so my hopes for a "soft platoon" of Hart/Gerut are probably done, at least to start the season.

[JoeHova]

It seems like some people are overreacting with the stuff about Corey stealing money. Teams win some, players win some. If the Brewers didn't think Corey was a good risk, they could have just non-tendered him. Instead, they decided that they would like to have him work for them at $4+ million per year. They're still getting a fine deal because this is about the market rate for a slightly below average player, especially one that still has upside (at least, judging by 2007). I think Hart would easily get more than this on the open market, which still makes it a win for the Brewers, although not as big of a win as they were hoping for.

 

That said, it wouldn't surprise me if Hart went full Bil Hall this year so I wouldn't mind the Brewers cutting or trading him. I assume they are hoping he can re-establish some value this season but even if he does, I doubt anybody would give up much for him with only 1 year until free agency.

[owbc]

Not sure why this is a surprise when you compare Hart's numbers to Francoeur. Hart is still underpaid compared to Francoeur--he could have asked for even more money.

 

Obviously you can't cut him. As much as the system is arguably flawed, the Brewers do not want to be labeled as player-unfriendly. It is already hard enough to get free agents to come to Milwaukee without paying a premium.

 

Hart was already starting to take it from the fans last year, and that will likely intensify this year. From Corey's perspective, he was just taking the salary that he could get--there are plenty of other major league teams that would be happy with a 20/20 outfielder at $5 million/year. He swings aimlessly at breaking balls, but Geoff Jenkins still had a fine career with that flaw. The Brewers also do not have a suitable replacement--our options for CF are a .230 hitter or a .229 hitter.

 

My advice to the fans is to forget about it and cheer for him.

[Robideaux]

Supposedly Hart's people used Josh Willingham's $4.6 million as a comparable.

 

Can someone please point to one stat other than stolen bases where Josh Willingham isn't clearly superior to Corey Hart offensively? Put Willingham in a lineup with Fielder and Braun and the differences would be even more stark. Is there one person out there that wouldn't trade Corey Hart straight up for Josh Willingham?

 

I don't blame Hart. I blame the knuckleheads on the panel that don't know baseball.

 

 

I don’t understand how you could think Willingham is a better hitter than Hart?

 

Over the last three seasons Hart’s batting average is higher and he has had more RBIs and Runs than Willingham. Willingham has a few more homers, but he has also stuck out more times than Hart. Hart also destroys Willingham in stolen bases and sacrifice bunts.

 

It seems to me, based on the important statistics, that Hart is clearly a better hitter.

 

 

[yoshii8]

Awesome Corey. You are now only the second Brewer I love to hate. If only you could be one tenth the player Gary Sheffield was. What a bright boy.

Wow, comparing him to Gary Sheffield, now thats funny. What did Hart do exactly to make you hate him so much?

 

 

[Oldcity]

This is just another in the long list of reasons why Jeff Francoeur is the root of all baseball evil.