still looking for pitching

[804Sox]

Mulder would be a good sign to a MiLB deal, but he would still take a spot on the 40-man...

 

Isn't the definition of an MiLB deal that he isn't on the 40 man?

Absolutely. 40-man spot = major league contract. Minor league contract = not on 40-man.

You're right. my fault. In any case, Mulder would probably demand a clause in his contract allowing him to opt out if he isn't added/called up by a certain date. The MiLB deal would solve the problem of immediate 40-man constraints though.

[MNBrew]

Mulder coming off as much injury time as he's had likely wouldn't demand an opt-out clause. If he's doing well enough to be appealing to other teams, the Brewers should want him in their rotation.

 

Besides, he worked w/ Rick Peterson last year & had his greatest success w/ Peterson as his pitching coach.

[Milltownhooker]

Smoltz is still out there. He doesn't seem to keen on signing with the Mets. And the cards seem to be done adding pitchers with Rich Hill. He's probably a better bet than Bedard to give above average inngs.

[Milltownhooker]

Sounds liike Smoltz miht wait tell mid-year to sign. http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/mets/2010/01/smoltz-could-borrow-pedros-scr.html

[TooLiveBrew]

I guess he doesn't want to be a reliever. That seems odd to me, since that would appear to be the perfect role for him. He'd likely have his pick of contending teams, too, I'd guess.

[Milltownhooker]

Wellmeyer is still out there. Wonder if he would sign a minor league deal. He's got a good arm. Maybe Peterson can get him to throw strikes.

[RockCoCougars]

With the news the other day that Bedard might be out until May or June, I think the Brewers should maintain contact with his people because his asking price will likely plummet. I wonder if he'd take something like $3-4 million base with bonuses tied in with every chunk of innings or starts that he makes. A calculated risk, yes - but not one that would break the back of the team. With Bedard in their back pocket, the Brewers would have the flexibility to drop Manny from the rotation if he flops or even more likely to fill the spot of whoever gets injured between now and then. I guess the major problem with this would be that he's yet another lefty. Obviously this would stretch the budget out to or past the limit, but keep in mind that the team either contends or barring injury they would have three starting pitchers (Davis, Bush and Bedard) that they could flip for prospects if they were out of it by the trading deadline.

[Milltownhooker]

Bedard is looking like a all-star break signing. Is he worth a MLB contract & huge incentive deal?

[Milltownhooker]

Scratch Bedard looks like he's going back to Seattle

[HiAndTight]

Yeah, again, Bush is an average SP. Not spectacular, but he's not horrible. I don't get why everyone seems to have turned on him this off-season. He was pretty good last year until he got hit by that freak line drive. Letting go of Bush to get someone like Washburn or Maine is a very lateral move at best.

 

Because that's how fans are. If a guy puts up an ugly ERA, then he sucks, and we must dump him. Of course that's not how all fans are, but lets face it, it's how the vast majority of the fans are.

 

Honestly I think the same applies to Manny Parra. The guy's a uber talented young minor leaguer the whole time he's in our system, the only question is health. He never had control issues, he put up impressive lines at every stop, again, health permitting, he comes up to the big leagues and in his first cup of coffee, and then the following year impresses. Then last year he has a bad year and the overwhelming opinion is that he's not a good option and we should get rid of him. I think a lot of us suspected he was injured last year, and I said as much on several occasions. Not that this is anything new, but when a pitcher starts to lose control or velocity, injury is the first thought. Well, he pitched with discomfort all year, got his shoulder cleaned up, and I think we should expect that Manny Parra next year.

 

The same goes for Dave Bush. He's been a very, very solid pitcher for us. His time in Milwaukee has been that of a very solid middle of the rotation type of guy who consistently takes the ball every 5th day and gives you good innings. He gets hurt, guts it out and now he's a guy we should just non-tender?

 

 

I can at least understand with Dave Bush you don't really have that upside of a #2 type pitcher. At his best he's a solid 3. But basically the only chance we have at putting out a better than average rotation next year is for Manny Parra to break out and become that #2 type pitcher for us. I think he's more than capable of posting a ~3.75-3.90 ERA and Bush a 4.25. I can't fathom giving up either when we're in such dire need of better pitching.

[Invader3K]

I don't get the sense most people want to dump Parra yet. If anything, I get the sense that some may be expecting too much from him. At least expectations have definitely lowered since last off-season when he was hoped to be our #2 SP. Now he is expected to be a serviceable #4/5 type, and that's about it. I wouldn't get rid of him anyway at this point, since he's cheap and probably has very little trade value. May as well stick with him and see what happens.

[JohnBriggs12]

HiAndTight,

 

That's a very strong defense of Parra and Bush, but I don't think the stats back you up. Parra impressed in 2008? He posted a pedestrian 1.542 WHIP that year. He led the league with 17 wild pitches. He walked over 4 guys per 9 innings. He gave up 181 hits in 166 innings (.278 BA). Bottom line is, his troubles in 09, particularly with control, didn't come out of nowhere. It's put up or shut up this year. He's no kid at 27. That's prime age for a pitcher.

 

Bush has been "a very, very solid pitcher for us." Huh? In 2 of his 4 seasons as a Brewer, he's posted ERA's over 5. He's allowed 101 HR in 695 innings. He surpassed 186 innings once, and that was 4 years ago. Most of the time he's been serviceable as a 4-5 type starter, but that's short of very, very solid.

[Invader3K]

Briggs, you are correct about Bush, but you have to basically throw out last season, or at least the second half. Obviously getting hit by that line drive had a huge negative impact on his stats. '07 he was not that great, but otherwise he has been pretty dependable. I would exactly describe him as a #4-5 type like you said.

[JohnBriggs12]

InvaderK,

 

To me you are what you're record says you are. It's an excuse when an injury is used to explain poor performance after the fact. I'll grant you it affected him in June, but after nearly 2 months on the DL it was said to have healed and he was still pretty bad. Do I think he can bounce back and be decent? Sure, but decent in the sense he's a useful 4th or 5th starter, not a guy who'll carry you.

 

I do think it's a legitimate concern that he's still hurting/bad and won't be so useful.

[logan82]

Bush wasn't injured, he was hurt. He wasn't completely healed but he played through it and not very well. You are making the assumption that since he wasn't on the DL he was 100% healthy. We have seen in the past that even minor injuries can throw a pitcher just enough off that they become less effective. Bush doesn't have good enough stuff to be a little off and still be good. Sure he was healed enough not to make things worse, not well enough that he was really healthy though.

[Invader3K]

Really, Briggs? You don't buy that a pitcher couldn't get nailed in the arm by a scorching line drive and still be feeling the effects a couple months later? Come on.

[804Sox]

Really, Briggs? You don't buy that a pitcher couldn't get nailed in the arm by a scorching line drive and still be feeling the effects a couple months later? Come on.

Indeed. In particular the psychological impact. Matt Clement was never the same . . .

[TooLiveBrew]

Sure, but decent in the sense he's a useful 4th or 5th starter, not a guy who'll carry you.

 

As best I can tell, no one ever claimed he was anything more than this. Who are you arguing with? I haven't ever seen anyone claim that "Dave Bush will carry this team"

[SDOwen28]

Dave Bush is a guy that is going to throw 2 or 3 gems a year and get lit up 2 or 3 times a year so those cancel out but in my mind he is a very serviceable 4 or 5.....he eats innings, which I cant say about most 4 or 5's on teams and keeps us in the game and with our offense is what we want.

[804Sox]

The problem isn't Bush. He's a solid #4/#5 on a contract paying him the amount of money he deserves. The problem would be that if Davis is cooked or if Parra has another '09, Bush is the third best starter on the team, which does not bode extremely well for the Brewers' playoff aspirations.