still looking for pitching

[RockCoCougars]

The more the merrier as far as I'm concerned. It wouldn't be a bad thing at all to go into spring training with 4 or 5 guys competing for the last two spots in the rotation. It might actually be a good thing if Bedard won't be ready by Opening Day because then maybe the Brewers could get him on the cheap with the hope that he's ready by May or June.

[Milltownhooker]

I'm hope Bedard is looking at things from the long-term. Do I sign some place that will give me the most money now or go to the team that gives me the best chance to recover my value & cash in next year.

[yount19.u]

Would Bush for Maine be doable? Too much for the Brewers to give up or not enough?

[Ennder]

Would Bush for Maine be doable? Too much for the Brewers to give up or not enough?

 

Most GM's would probably just laugh at Melvin if he offered it. Which means the Mets might just take it.

[endaround]

Well Maine isn't even in the rotation for the Mets so who knows.

[DHonks]

Milltownhooker, were people really wondering about Edwin Jackson? I remember wanting the Brewers to trade for him after I saw him down the stretch in '08 throwing 96-98 mph...something he hadn't done since before his shoulder surgery with the Dodgers. To me his stuff had returned, and I sure was hoping the Brewers would try to trade for him.

[Milltownhooker]

Yeah but last year in 08 his walk rate was still pretty high & Edwin had never shown consitentance. Why Tampa Bay was willing to deal him. Plus their overewelmming depth of young arms

[reillymcshane]

The one spot I could see the brewers dealing is letting Hart go in a trade if they don't think he'll ever learn to hit breaking pitches. What could you get, I don't know, but you could sign someone like Randy Winn - who'd would be a far better fielder than Hart, switch hit, and would come at 1/2 the price. Or even try Gerut in a platoon.

 

If they feel Hart can rebound to an .800+ OPS player, then by all means, keep him. But a .750ish OPS guy with questionable defense isn't worth it.

[PrinceFielderx1]

Why don't the Brewers release Dave Bush which would free up 4-5 million, and use that money to get Washburn? Washburn could probably be had for 5-6 million. The Brewers have shown interest in him and he has shown interest in the Brewers. That would add another solid arm to the rotation. Parra could be moved to the bullpen, and Suppan would get the 5th spot. If Suppan turns out to be bad, by mid-season if the Brewers are still in it he could be traded or released and the Brewers could trade for a SP.

[endaround]

Because Bush is as good or better than Washburn, costs less, and is already under contract.

[Invader3K]

Yeah, again, Bush is an average SP. Not spectacular, but he's not horrible. I don't get why everyone seems to have turned on him this off-season. He was pretty good last year until he got hit by that freak line drive. Letting go of Bush to get someone like Washburn or Maine is a very lateral move at best.

[Milltownhooker]

Agree 3K, if Maine can be had for a package of (RP + medicore prospect) I'd do it.

[JohnBriggs12]

Yeah, again, Bush is an average SP. Not spectacular, but he's not horrible. I don't get why everyone seems to have turned on him this off-season. He was pretty good last year until he got hit by that freak line drive. Letting go of Bush to get someone like Washburn or Maine is a very lateral move at best.

He was horrible last year even after he came back from his DL stint when he was said to be fully recovered. In his 7 starts from August 27th on, covering 33 1/3 innings, he allowed 48 hits, 31 earned runs and 11 walks. That's an 8.45 ERA Amazingly, he did make a turn around in one stat. He allowed just HR during that time.

 

Bush is average when he's at his best. When he's not, he's well below average and it's not an unreasonable scenario for him to be cut to save most of his salary considering they are now $5 million over budget. Especially when you consider he's a FA after this season.

[endaround]

How does that make any sense? There are no better in house replacements for Bush. And why do you think they are overbudget?

[Invader3K]

I think Bush was bad in the second half last year because he probably was not fully recovered. I think you realize that though, JohnBriggs.

[sheetskout]

no room on the 40, i don't see anything more than a mulder minor league deal, but would welcome another one.

I'd have to say this sums it up pretty well. They simply don't have the room or budget to add another major-league arm.

[804Sox]

I prefer Bush over both Maine and Washburn. The only FA pitcher that would be a significant upgrade is Bedard, and I'm sure he could be had on a 1yr incentives-laden deal at this point. Yo, Wolf, Bedard, and 2 of Davis/Parra/Bush would be a very solid rotation.

 

Mulder would be a good sign to a MiLB deal, but he would still take a spot on the 40-man unless he started the season on the 60 day DL (and even then, someone would have to be removed from the 40 man so that Mulder could be put on before being placed on the DL, right?)

[MNBrew]

I agree that a fully healthy Dave Bush should be at least as good and definitely more cost-effective than Jarrod Washburn. But there's no guarantee Bush is fully healthy. If he proves in ST that he's just not the same pitcher anymore, at least they can release him with "minimal" damage (at most $1.05 million).

 

Another possible scenario is another bargain-aisle signing and the Brewers have more productive, healthy arms than rotation spots. At that point, some other team is bound to have lost an integral guy to injury, so all of a sudden we could have some depth from which to make a move.

[PrinceFielderx1]

Another possible scenario is another bargain-aisle signing and the Brewers have more productive, healthy arms than rotation spots. At that point, some other team is bound to have lost an integral guy to injury, so all of a sudden we could have some depth from which to make a move.

I believe that Washburn could be had for maybe 1-2 million more then Bush, which is a bargain. He is healthy and he would be moving from the AL to the NL which would give him an advantage. I'd choose a healthy dependable Washburn whom you know what you will get over a Dave Bush who is coming off of a 2009 season where he pitched poorly and was injured.

[MNBrew]

Another possible scenario is another bargain-aisle signing and the Brewers have more productive, healthy arms than rotation spots. At that point, some other team is bound to have lost an integral guy to injury, so all of a sudden we could have some depth from which to make a move.

I believe that Washburn could be had for maybe 1-2 million more then Bush, which is a bargain. He is healthy and he would be moving from the AL to the NL which would give him an advantage. I'd choose a healthy dependable Washburn whom you know what you will get over a Dave Bush who is coming off of a 2009 season where he pitched poorly and was injured.

The thing is, at this point at least the Brewers have some assets & options. Some team desperate enough for pitching might think Dave Bush is better than half their rotations. Trade him for prospects and they could then sign Washburn.

 

The other thing is, though, that Washburn is older and was also injured part of last season. So he's not quite a sure thing, either.

[PrinceFielderx1]

The thing is, at this point at least the Brewers have some assets & options. Some team desperate enough for pitching might think Dave Bush is better than half their rotations. Trade him for prospects and they could then sign Washburn.

 

The other thing is, though, that Washburn is older and was also injured part of last season. So he's not quite a sure thing, either.

Dave Bush's trade value is low and the Brewers might just be better off releasing him and using that 4 million on another player who is more of a sure thing and less of a question mark. I see where you are coming from, though. Washburn was indeed injured in 2009, but he still pitched 60 more IP then Bush and had an era of 3.78 compared to Bush's 6.38. He will upgrade and add more certainty to this pitching staff. This seems like a no-brainer to me. Unless the Brewers want to acquire a SP via trade and stay away from FA...

[nate82]

Dave Bush's trade value is low and the Brewers might just be better off releasing him and using that 4 million on another player who is more of a sure thing and less of a question mark. I see where you are coming from, though. Washburn was indeed injured in 2009, but he still pitched 60 more IP then Bush and had an era of 3.78 compared to Bush's 6.38. He will upgrade and add more certainty to this pitching staff. This seems like a no-brainer to me. Unless the Brewers want to acquire a SP via trade and stay away from FA...

Washburn equals the left handed version of Suppan. That 3.78 is misleading since Washburn pitched most of his time in a pitchers friendly ball park in Seattle. Don't forget that Washburn had a bad year in 2008 in a pitchers ballpark and when you look at Washburn's stats even more closely you will start to see why Washburn would be a bad idea. Look at Washburn's fly ball and line drive rate from last year it is a telling stat. Washburn is a soft tosser and he is not an upgrade over Bush if anything they are about equal and Bush will cost a lot less than Washburn so no the Brewers are not better off releasing Bush and trying to find another pitcher at $4m. Washburn won't sign for $4m you are going to have to add another $1-4m onto that contract. You will be paying about $5 or $6m for the same pitcher that you had at $4m so why dump bush when Washburn isn't even an upgrade over Bush.

 

Just for a comparison Washburn was pitching in a pitchers ballpark in 2008 and had an ERA of 4.69 while Bush had an ERA of 4.18 you can even look at the advanced stats for pitching and see that Bush and Washburn are nearly identical in value so paying $4m for Bush is money better spent than paying $5m+ for Washburn.

[logan82]

Trade him for prospects and they could then sign Washburn.

 

Why would a team do that if they could just sign Washburn instead? I know he wants to play for Milwaukee or Minnesota, apparently, but neither seem really interested in him right now.

[CheezWizHed]

Mulder would be a good sign to a MiLB deal, but he would still take a spot on the 40-man...

 

Isn't the definition of an MiLB deal that he isn't on the 40 man?

[MNBrew]

Mulder would be a good sign to a MiLB deal, but he would still take a spot on the 40-man...

 

Isn't the definition of an MiLB deal that he isn't on the 40 man?

Absolutely. 40-man spot = major league contract. Minor league contract = not on 40-man.