Anyone here ever been through a divorce?

[Marleyboo]

Hey folks

Been awhile since i've been around here. Does anyone here have any advice on getting a divorce?

 

This is not something that I want but I've been making her unhappy for a while now. I guess I just didn't see it and when I tried to change it was too late. Right now she's angry with me. Moved out and avoiding me. I told her that i can accept that and that she needs to yell, scream and vent at me about how I hurt her. I love her so much and if we are going to get divorced I would like her to deal with it and be healthy. I know she loves me, she's just really hurt.

 

So as of now I'm giving her space and waiting. I've come to expect that this is more than likely over, so i've started my grieving process.

 

Thanks in advance. I've always been amazed at what a broad group of people there are on this board.

[mothershipconnection]

Get a lawyer. It makes the whole thing a lot easier to swallow. The last thing you want to deal with when going through personal trouble is a mountain of paperwork and trying to figure out how the courts work. Even if you guys agree on everything, a lawyer will still make life a lot easier.

[TooLiveBrew]

This is not something that I want but I've been making her unhappy for a while now. I guess I just didn't see it and when I tried to change it was too late. Right now she's angry with me. Moved out and avoiding me. I told her that i can accept that and that she needs to yell, scream and vent at me about how I hurt her. I love her so much and if we are going to get divorced I would like her to deal with it and be healthy. I know she loves me, she's just really hurt.

 

Wow, I'm really sorry to hear about this, Marleyboo. I can't lend you any first-hand advice, but you guys are definitely in my thoughts. If it makes you feel any better, the way you're handling/going about everything seems very impressive.

[rwa12]

Just went through it. Sounds like my problems were very similar to yours. Hope yours works out better than mine did. I agree with the divorce advice, and the decision to give space. Would she be willing to go to counseling? My ex wasn't interested, but I went on my own, and it helped me quite a bit. May be something to look into. The grieving process takes awhile, there are many different stages of it, don't rush them. I thought I would never recover, but I am now happy and dating. Hang in there...it's a crummy process.

[sgtcluels]

PROTECT YOURSELF.

 

That is it. Having gone through this all, protect yourself. Feelings are going to muck it all up, so a lawyer probably is a good idea.

 

1) If you are separated (and it appears you are) get everything in writing. Right now..I mean right now.. go fill out the forms to make it legal separation. You are two different identities, you have to make sure any obligations you have are covered. Remember: If your names on debt, and one of you doesn't pay it. It counts against YOUR credit.

2) Hire a lawyer. It's going to suck.. but there is no such thing as a easy divorce. You need an advocate, otherwise you'll do what I did and just agree to whatever terms to get it over with.

3) You will become bitter. No if and or butts, you will go through a grieving process (like rwa12). You'll probably cycle back and forth on wanting to "give it a shot" to "die in a fire" over and over, just don't make any decision that will hurt you.

4) Get a lawyer. Seriously, it's expensive but you should come out ahead.

5) Seriously.. get a lawyer.

 

Its a crappy crappy process, and if you are like me you will probably get pretty depressed for awhile. It's a cliche but it does get better with time, and you will be amazed at how quickly it can go from "Crap" to "Pretty awesome". Mine turned around a little over a year ago, and I'm sure yours will too. Just take care of yourself... I'd say be a little greedy for yourself. It might make me a dick, but you need to figure out your own life now.

[1992casey]

I don't know if anyone's mentioned this, but get a lawyer. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[pretendastronaut]

Not to keep going on about it, but to echo it anyway, a life-long friend went through a long divorce last year, and he wanted to just be amicable about the whole thing, and I insisted over and over to him to get a lawyer. He didn't. I had drinks with him a few weeks ago and he got hosed in some areas because of it, and regrets it now.

 

Overall, best of luck to you. You sound like you've got a good head about the whole thing at the moment.

[1992casey]

I think that getting a lawyer probably enhances the chances of amicability rather than hurting it.

[mothershipconnection]

Remember: If your names on debt, and one of you doesn't pay it. It counts against YOUR credit.

 

I found that out the hard way. The credit fallout was the worst part of the divorce - far worse than any other source of emotional stress. I couldn't even get a Sony store card with a $500 limit and last time I tried to get a car loan, one place said no, and the other offered me one at 18.59% interest. I pull down a nice salary and should have nothing negative on my credit except a medical bill my insurance refused to pay (because they said the hospital charged an unusual amount and they'd only pay the standard rate) that I simply could not pay until 2 years later. She, however, stopped paying 2 loans and about 6 credit cards on top of running up a $1957 cell phone bill (this was before "no roaming fee" plans) on a shared account.

 

Next year will mark 7 years, and I'll finally be able to buy a new house.

[Menace II Sobriety]

Remember: If your names on debt, and one of you doesn't pay it. It counts against YOUR credit.

 

I found that out the hard way. The credit fallout was the worst part of the divorce - far worse than any other source of emotional stress. I couldn't even

get a Sony store card with a $500 limit and last time I tried to get a car loan, one place said no, and the other offered me one at 18.59% interest. I pull

down a nice salary and should have nothing negative on my credit except a medical bill my insurance refused to pay (because they said the hospital charged an

unusual amount and they'd only pay the standard rate) that I simply could not pay until 2 years later. She, however, stopped paying 2 loans and about 6

credit cards on top of running up a $1957 cell phone bill (this was before "no roaming fee" plans) on a shared account.

 

Next year will mark 7 years, and I'll finally be able to buy a new house.

Not to belabor the point but if your credit was ruined because of a divorce or something similar all you have to do is provide an LOX (letter of explanation). The other thing you can do is take a settlement on the outstanding fees. Normally you can settle for 40 cents on the dollar max so this could have cleared up your credit long ago.

 

As a sidenote "Lets say you haven't payed a credit card in 2 years. if you make a payment it resets the clock and it will stay on your credit for 7 more years. If you don't make a payment it is a negative for 5 more years but than disappears." Sometimes the best idea is to avoid an issue

[homer]

As a sidenote "Lets say you haven't payed a credit card in 2 years. if you make a payment it resets the clock and it will stay on your credit for 7 more years. If you don't make a payment it is a negative for 5 more years but than disappears." Sometimes the best idea is to avoid an issue

------------------------

 

Huh? You still owe the money though. So at some point you have to pay the ferryman, no?

[Menace II Sobriety]

No you don't any credit card bill falls off of your report after seven years w/o a payment. Making a payment 2 years in only resets the clock. If you do neglect your bills and want to settle them up you can generally do it at 40-50% of the price they demand. But if it is a lagging bill that is 4 years out and you pay it; it will still be there for 7 more years but if you neglect it; it will be gone in 3.

 

Thought I would delve into this deeper. This is no personal guarantee on a credit card or a normal loan from a bank. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signature_loan. They cannot take a lien against anything you own unless you signed it away in the docs. It is an unsecured loan which is what got banks into this situation in the first place. Unless your loan docs say they can sue you they cannot and it is under about 8% of all CC loans that state that.

[strawbossisevil]

I've never been through a divorce, but have been around plenty of people who have. I think the advice about counseling is spot on. I do know a number of couples who had their marriage saved by going to counseling.

[mothershipconnection]

Not to belabor the point but if your credit was ruined because of a divorce or something similar all you have to do is provide an LOX (letter of explanation). The other thing you can do is take a settlement on the outstanding fees. Normally you can settle for 40 cents on the dollar max so this could have cleared up your credit long ago.

 

I do have the marital separation agreement that puts her on the hook for everything (aside from my medical bills), but that will probably only do me any good with a mortgage or major loans. Otherwise, they just stamp "no" on the application.

 

I couldn't pay the debt off, because until 4 years in, I was a student, so 40-50% of 25 grand or so was just more than I could spend to help my credit. Plus, the collection agencies were pretty much never willing to settle for that little, they wanted more like 75-80%, and in the case of her car loan, all of it. By the time I finally made enough to pay some of that crap off, I only had to wait 3 more years before it went off my report, and I had $54K in student loans that I'd rather pay off than my ex's debt.

[davego]

Bad joke...

 

Why is divorce so expensive?

 

 

 

 

...because it's worth it.

[Menace II Sobriety]

I do have the marital separation agreement that puts her on the hook for everything (aside from my medical bills), but that will probably only do me any good with a mortgage or major loans. Otherwise, they just stamp "no" on the application.

 

I couldn't pay the debt off, because until 4 years in, I was a student, so 40-50% of 25 grand or so was just more than I could spend to help my credit. Plus, the collection agencies were pretty much never willing to settle for that little, they wanted more like 75-80%, and in the case of her car loan, all of it. By the time I finally made enough to pay some of that crap off, I only had to wait 3 more years before it went off my report, and I had $54K in student loans that I'd rather pay off than my ex's debt.

That all makes sense, at that point I would rather just wait out the 3 years and have it fall off of your report altogether than pay it off and have it on your report for 7 more years. Collection agencies generally don't have your credit report just a Twentile Score, most times you can better a deal than 80% it just depends on who the collector that is in charge of your account is. Once your loan has been through more than 1 collection agency they are buying it for 10 cents on the dollar. Also these guys work on commission which is why you will see them calling a lot more the last few days of the month as they try to meet their quota which is a great time to get a good deal if you want a settlement.

[sgtcluels]

Ouch MSC. You got it worse then I did. Mine got knocked down to as of last check, 700. Which is the bottom of "ok", so it could be worse. My credit took a beating due to debt to income ration, when your crazy ex takes the CC and racks up basically 32K in 30% interest debt that you are now stuck with. That suck.... over half your salary goes to debt repayment for nothing you physically have. 1 more year.. 1 more year.. then I can actually like.. have money to spend. mmm...

 

This should hopefully help reinforce the need to have everything in writing right now. If you just verbally agree to stuff, you'll be high and dry. Get everything in writing... everything....

[MadScientist]

I've been through it, and there is a lot of details that will define your best course of action. It's a bit of extra trouble that she is avoiding you, but I'm guessing that at least means that there are no kids involved. It is certainly worth talking to a few lawyers to see which ones you like, what they can do, and how much it will cost. If she has moved out, a formal separation makes a ton of sense. As far as you hurting her, it doesn't have any legal significance (unless it crossed the line to criminal activity). The divorce laws look at differences in income, length of time you were married, and child placement.

 

There are things you can do to reduce the costs, but it depends on how much you are able to talk to each other to work out a settlement. You can actually work through just one lawyer, if both of you are not interested in major fights. The flip side is that you will have to live with the settlement, so make sure you can live with it. Your situation is your concern, she is responsible for hers.

 

One other thing to look into are support groups for divorced and divorcing people. Even if they don't give out a lot of advice, the social interaction with people who won't treat you like a failure because your marriage failed.

[Marleyboo]

Thanks for all of the advice. We ended up meeting last friday and came to the conclusion that we would file for divorce sometime soon, not have much contact and see where we are later on. Man this is tough. We both love each other. It's just that some stuff has festered for too long, which makes it that much harder. I have to respect her decision. I maybe naive but we've decided to file together and split everything down the middle. At first she was offering me alot more of the assets. Now after the weekend she's hinting that it might not be that fair, which I can respect. I was thinking that all along.

 

For anyone who may go through this at any time in the future, all I can say is be prepared. I thought i'd been through a lot in my life but I've never felt these kinds of emotions. I don't think I've ever cried so much in my life. I'm not embarrassed to say it. From what I've read, a person has to embrace it and let all of your emotions out. My friends have been life savers. I never realized how a simple email or call everyday from one friend could support you so much.

 

Madscientist, thank you for the advice on the support group. I'd never thought of that.

[sgtcluels]

Good luck. Just make sure it's fair on both sides, being screwed over isn't fun. Things will get better.. hardest part is going to get the willpower to do things. But if you can, get involved in something. Play soccer/softball/kickball/cards/bowling anything that will get you out of the house and get you into some social contact. It will ease the pain a bit knowing that you aren't alone.

[RyDogg66]

They cannot take a lien against anything you own unless you signed it away in the docs. It is an unsecured loan which is what got banks into this situation in the first place. Unless your loan docs say they can sue you they cannot and it is under about 8% of all CC loans that state that.

I am skeptical of this statement. A credit card is a contract. If they CC company establishes you signed a contract where you were provided a line of credit for a promise to repay and you breach the contract I believe they can sue you under breach of contract, take a judgment, and then docket the judgment against any property you may owe.

[Menace II Sobriety]

They cannot take a lien against anything you own unless you signed it away in the docs. It is an unsecured loan which is what got banks into this situation in the first place. Unless your loan docs say they can sue you they cannot and it is under about 8% of all CC loans that state that.

I am skeptical of this statement. A credit card is a contract. If they CC company establishes you signed a contract where you were provided a line of credit for a promise to repay and you breach the contract I believe they can sue you under breach of contract, take a judgment, and then docket the judgment against any property you may owe.

You can be skeptical if you wish but I was a debt collector when I first graduated from college about 7 years ago. If you ever talk to a debt collector they will hint that they can sue but will never state it directly. They will say things like further steps will have to be taken or we will pursue other alternatives. They will never say that you will be sued unless you actually will. I worked with a group of 9 people out of an office of 500 that could actually sue people for outstanding credit card bills and these were the highest balanced and highest credit rated accounts that also had a provision written into the contracts about lawsuits mostly from American Express (It is called an LTO (legal talk off). As I stated a credit card is an unsecured or signature loan and it falls off your credit in 7 years of your last payment. Also the checks you get in the mail that all you have to do is sign the back is the same thing. All you have to do is sign the back and avoid phone calls for seven years.

 

A store like American can do that because their contracts are different with no payments until 2012 and such but almost all credit cards are not. The same thing happens with mortgages where the note is resold and the new servicer of the account never actually acquired the original note.

 

Edit: Almost missed the main point: You are talking about collateral (http://en.wikipedia.org/w...ollateral_%28finance%29) and has to be specifically written into a loan agreement in order to be allowed to be recouped. This is not the same with outstanding taxes for a house or outstanding fees to a contractor on housework, just for credit cards. I have worked in the finance industry for about 7 years so I think my comprehension of the issue is adequate but if you find anything to prove me wrong I would appreciate the knowledge.

[trwi7]

I can vouch for Menace.

 

The statute of limitations runs out. Many times a debt collector will call demanding that you pay or they'll sue right before the statute of limitations goes into effect. All you have to do at that point is deny you owe the debt, tell them the statute of limitations has run and to not contact you again. If they continue, all you have to do is send a certified letter with a return receipt requested telling them not to contact you again.

 

However, if you agree that you have the debt, agree to pay the debt or send them money, the statute of limitations can start over giving them the right to sue.

 

I believe the statute of limitations is six years in Wisconsin for open accounts and written contracts.

[Menace II Sobriety]

I can vouch for Menace.

 

The statute of limitations runs out. Many times a debt collector will call demanding that you pay or they'll sue right before the statute of limitations goes into effect. All you have to due at that point is deny you owe the debt, tell them the statute of limitations has run and to not contact you again. If they continue, all you have to do is send a certified letter with a return reciept requested telling them not to contact you again.

 

However, if you agree that you have the debt, agree to pay the debt or send them money, the statute of limitations can start over giving them the right to sue.

 

I believe the statute of limitations is six years in Wisconsin for open accounts and written contracts.

Thanks, also there are several other laws that most people don't know, I will give you a few.

 

1. You should record all phone calls with a debt collector because they cannot cross certain lines; if they do and you have it on tape your outstanding bill will be negated and you will be compensated. For instance if they say they will sue you, or send someone to your house to collect the money in person they are breaking the law. This is what I found on a quick search http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/ed...onsumer/credit/cre27.pdf ( it is called the fdcpa) Fair Debt Collection Practices Act.

 

2. If you talk to someone about a debt once during the day they cannot call you again that day unless you give them permission. So if you are sick of getting calls 10 times a day all you have to do is answer the first call and say talk to you tomorrow. If they call back and you have the first call recorded or can prove the conversation somehow, they broke the law and are liable for the bill and compensation.

[RyDogg66]

Menace and trwi7:

 

At the very least, I need to explore your theory Menace because as an attorney I have been involved with defending clients in lawsuits who are being sued by credit card companies and tried to contest them in whatever manner I can and even while sitting in the judges chambers talking about the issues of the case the judge simply asks me if my client is denying that he or she had the credit card in question because as far as the judge sees it, these are open and shut cases. In fact, I dont know any attorney that currently uses this tactic in defense of credit card default.

 

HYPOTHETICAL:

 

What if you have a credit card with a $15,000.00 balance and stop paying the monthly payments today. Then the credit card sends it to a law firm 9 months later, the law firm writes you a letter saying you are in default and have X amount of days to cure the default (i.e. pay all the payments you have missed, in this case lets say it is $1,500.00) or suit will be started against you. You then tell them to stick it, and the law firm sues you for breach of contract just 18 months after you stopped paying on the debt??

 

Are you saying that in defense of the law suit in court that you just need to say that they cant sue you because it is an unsecured debt and that the case is over? Because when you sign up for a credit card you do sign paperwork in the application and that amounts to a written contract. The contract is an exchange of a line of credit for a promise to repay. If you get the line of credit and you dont pay it back based on the terms of the contract you are in breach of the contract.

 

If you are talking about being sued after the SOL has run, then yes, you are correct the SOL bars any suit after the SOL. THe SOL is usually 6 years - after your last payment. In the above example, they can, will and do sue you.

 

Debt collection firms are subject to different rules than law firms that specialize in debt collection. You are correct when you say that debt collection firms cant say they will sue...because they cant actually sue you and they cant threaten you with things they cannot do. However, a law firm CAN threaten you with litigation, because they actually CAN sue you.

 

In fact, I am in receipt of a complaint in a civil action right now. It alleges:

 

1. That the defendant(s) applied for a credit card and thereby entered into a contract, and that pursuant thereto the defendants were issued a credt card which is the subject of this action.

 

2. That the plaintiff is the current holder of said credit card account, the plaintiff has performed all its duties and obligations under the contract, but the defendant has defaulted by failing to make the payments due thereon.

 

3. That any required notice to cure default was given to the defendants and that the defendants failed to cure the same and are therefore in default of the above-mentioned contract.

 

That is the basis of any and all complaint in a credit card action.