Is Macha from the Billy Beane school of baseball?

[jjkoestler]

I just finished reading Moneyball per the recommendation of numerous BFers and it left me wondering if Macha is a Beane-like manager. On one hand Macha refuses to run on the basepaths (like Beane), but on the other hand it appears he doesn't value OPS (see Kendall, Jason). Is it possible for a manager to follow the Billy Beane school of baseball, or is it something reserved for GMs? Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

[topper09er]

Well you would think Billy Beane would only hire a "Billy Beane school of baseball" guy to be his own manager.

[monty57]

I'd say the "Moneyball" method of (general) managing is to look at the market and see what is undervalued and what is overvalued. Use your overvalued pieces to accumulate more undervalued pieces. At the time it was written, OBP was being overlooked, so Beane capitalized by stocking up on high-OBP players.

Right now, if I had to guess, I'd say young starting pitchers are the most overvalued players in baseball, while hitters, particularly hitters that are more SLG than OBP are undervalued. Defense is also highly valued right now, as Abreau and Dunn found out last year.

I'd say Macha's failure to play the team's top prospect (Gamel) last year would be very un-Beane-like. Plus Macha originally said that teams shouldn't run if they're below 70% steal rate, but I think Beane would use a larger sample size than two or three games before making that determination. I could go on, but I promised myself I'd be nicer to Macha in my posts.

[RockCoCougars]

I hope not, because Beane has never won a thing.... and never even had a winning record without at least two stud (sometimes three) pitchers in his starting rotation.

[Invader3K]

I hope not, because Beane has never won a thing....

They've won four division titles with Beane at the helm, at least.

[RockCoCougars]

I hope not, because Beane has never won a thing....

They've won four division titles with Beane at the helm, at least.

With that pitching staff, they probably could have won those division titles with Dean Taylor at the helm... Well, maybe not, but you get my drift.

[Thurston Fluff]

There is a difference between finding undervalued players as a GM and playing the hand you are dealt as a manager. Managers have to make the best use of the available talent. If that talent isn't suited to the usual SOP stats tell you should work it won't help win. If the team have a bunch of singles hitters with low OBP skills for example it may very well be better to steal more bases even if the rate is lower than the prescribed 75% rate. GM's job is to find the players that fit the money ball bill but that doesn't mean managers can manage the money ball way if the GM failed to find the right mix of players for that system.

[Ennder]

while hitters, particularly hitters that are more SLG than OBP are undervalued

 

I'd say SLG is still being overvalued. It isn't as bad as before moneyball but OBP is still undervalued.

[Diskono]

So at some point, are we going to run out of things to be undervalued?

 

My prediction for the next big thing: AAAA superstars that haven't been given opportunities

[Invader3K]

Diskono wrote:

My prediction for the next big thing: AAAA superstars that haven't been given opportunities

You could well be onto something there. One has to only point to someone like Nelson Cruz to start the next "hot trend".

[rluzinski]

I hope not, because Beane has never won a thing....

They've won four division titles with Beane at the helm, at least.

With that pitching staff, they probably could have won those division titles with Dean Taylor at the helm... Well, maybe not, but you get my drift.

 

I think GMs should only take credit for winning with bad player.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

All of this mocking of moneyball... sheesh. Even I'm not a stat guy, but I respect the concept. Buster Olney wrote a heck of an article on how Beane's ideas have had a major impact on the game people are copying his ideas because they work. Check it out, if you don't believe me.

 

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/insider/news/story?id=4794683

 

As for Macha, I don't think he's much of a moneyball guy. He goes away from the tactics time in and time out. Yost was more of a moneyball guy than Beane is and that's why he was a better manager, but that's a whole other argument. Beane was managing that team in Oakland and Macha might have learned a few things, but I don't consider him a moneyball guy.

[1992casey]

Because managing doesn't have much or anything to do with money, I'm not sure that it's possible to have a Moneyball manager. But it's possible to have a sabermetric manager. Terry Francona may fit that description.

[dannyjnoonan]

I hope not, because Beane has never won a thing....

They've won four division titles with Beane at the helm, at least.

With that pitching staff, they probably could have won those division titles with Dean Taylor at the helm... Well, maybe not, but you get my drift.

 

Are you suggesting a team's personnel has nothing to do with the GM? Do you... like... know what a GM does?

[RockCoCougars]

I hope not, because Beane has never won a thing....

They've won four division titles with Beane at the helm, at least.

With that pitching staff, they probably could have won those division titles with Dean Taylor at the helm... Well, maybe not, but you get my drift.

 

Are you suggesting a team's personnel has nothing to do with the GM? Do you... like... know what a GM does?

Yeah... I know ....like..... what a GM does. The fact is, Beane inherited Tim Hudson, and then got extremely lucky taking two guys in Mulder and Zito (both top 10 picks by the way) that went from college to the majors almost immediately. Pretty much the same thing that happened when Bando drafted Sheets, except lightning struck twice for Beane. Going further, the heart of that lineup in Giambi, Tejada and Chavez was also in place when he took over. Though you may be a Beane disciple, the fact of the matter is that the A's have won nothing since the 'Big 3' pitchers have left. Though the number crunchers seem to think Beane is God, I will go out on a limb and say that Alderson deserves as much of the credit if not more than Beane for those teams.... I know its sacrelige to the believers in the Moneyball bible, but the game is played on the field not by crunching numbers. In my opinion though he's not as flashy (and popular with the stat geeks) Terry Ryan was a much better G.M. I doubt if he'd have been fleeced in trades like Beane was for guys like Hudson, Haren and Harden that's for sure.

[Invader3K]

I would say Beane deserves at least some credit for those playoff runs in the mid '00s...but his stock has fallen somewhat, especially since the big market teams seem to have "caught up" to the Moneyball type strategies. Oakland doesn't really look like a club with much of a solid plan at this point.